Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
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Sgt Kevin Doris
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When I joined in 1972 we spent 1 day doing survival training and the gun range. Survival consisted of marching to a mess tent set up a couple of miles away. There was no salt or pepper for our meal. The gun range we learned to break down the weapon and put it back together. Then off to the range to fire like I think 100 rounds. If your gun jammed you stuck your thumb in your ear till a qualified person un-jammed your gun. When I was headed to southeast asia we spent a whole day firing-prone, thru windows,other ways-clicked off some rounds in auto. I remember interrogation resistance training. and who knows what else. We were going into a hot area and they wanted us to have some training. I had a an air force buddy at Bien Hoa AFB during Tet. He was a crew chief like me. Someone told him to get in a hole, handed him an M-16 and ammo and to shoot the enemy.
But remember, your job is to protect the base and personnel on the base. My job was to keep the birds flying. There's a big difference in job descriptions. Didn't you have the occasional thought to ride co-pilot in a F-16 just once? Why couldn't you? Cause you don't know squat about the aircraft. I flew co-pilot on a mission (complicated story) in an OV-10 because I knew the aircraft. Stick to your job and do it well Airman-all the best.
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A1C Michael Rowland
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I absolutely agree. EVERY member of the military should be able to handle a rifle and sidearm and be required to go through bi-annual training and practice for it.
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SGM Joel Cook
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I was on a Joint Task Force in Baghdad, Iraq. Several Air Force personnel had huge difficulty adapting to an outside the wire OPTEMPO. Our CO was an Air Force Colonel. It got back to me that he had shot the clearing barrel on two occasions because he could not remember to drop the magazine, clear the chamber, and pull the trigger. The next convoy he and I went on Together and every time thereafter, I accompanied him to the clearing barrel and talked him through it. He always wanted to clear the chamber, then drop the mag. This left a round in the chamber which he then shot the barrel with. I know he shot the barrel one more time after that and got a verbal reprimand from his next higher Commander. I find it hard to fathom that the Air Force feels that weapons training prior to combat zone deployment is not important nor time effective. Last time I checked the Air Force was part of the US Military. Not saying you have to be a weapon expert but competence and safety are a must. Just like knowing how to fly an aircraft correctly, or drive your vehicle, or just about anything else that can result in your death if not done to standard.
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Col Kenneth Klein
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If it is the Air Force, why aren't you a pilot? Because we all have a different skill to bring to "the fight". The Marines (my first service) wear crossed rifles to signify all are riflemen. Each service has a role, and within those services a task - cyber, space, air base ground defense, etc. All have to familiarize with the weapon to become a member, but not everyone needs your level of expertise...that's why we need you. I expect Airmen join the military for a litany of reasons, but to carry a weapon may not be the primary reason. Bottom line, teach them well.
Col K2 USAF retired (but an enlisted Marine first)
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MSgt Health Services Management
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They got cheap did not want pay for AMO and the virtual Weapons training stucks
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SSgt James Tadlock
SSgt James Tadlock
>1 y
It sort of shows how much our lives were valued vs. weapons and ammunition. We went into a hell hole in Vietnam with insufficient training to say the least. With being on night duty and working with ARC Plans (B-52 strikes) I almost never slept in a hooch. Me and my working partner would simply get off duty and sleep across the hall from the duty section. We got away with it till right at the end of the year. I felt a lot safer that way. And why not ? With the way this war turned out. We were lucky. In Vietnam you never knew where you might end up. Most places had a short life expectancy.
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MSgt Michael Lane
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The issue is proficiency; I am a firm believer in it. You either do something or you don’t you don’t maybe do it. The Air Force has for longtime treated weapons qualifications as a joke. As I remember my AFSC would fire like 50 rounds every two years and out of that you are qualified for combat. We were not trained to March, run, crawl, with a weapon. While at Eglin AFB we would have exercise with unloaded weapons I can’t tell you how many time I would get on a bus with people that had for whatever reason the bolts pulled back and they hit the stock down on the floor of the bus and all you could hear was the sound of 9 or 10 bolts going forward and you could tell they had no idea what had done at least at Kelly AFB we were issued blank’s and we would go to camp Bullies and were actually attack but we were never trained in anyway how to coordinate fire or move. In my AFSC we would watch a training film on how to put out a fire, in my 22 years I had seen 4 aircraft burn to the ground. So I think that maybe we should do hands on firefighting and watch a film on weapons use.
That all being said SP,OSI, CE especially Prime beef, PJ’s, Forward controllers, and Combat weather do get more training and are qualified and maybe more (sorry if I missed anyone) but the last thing you want is a bunch of people around you that don’t know what the hell to do in combat.
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Maj Flight Commander
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The Air Force's raison d'ĂŞtre is "air, space and cyberspace superiority" as the Air Force mission is to "fly, fight and win in air, space and cyberspace." After the experience of World War II and nuclear weapons, the Air Force was born mainly to strike distant adversaries and conduct nuclear operations. Although the Air Force branched from the Army, its organizing principle is aviation forces both combat and service, providing the Army with close combat and logistical air support (strategic air warfare, airlift, aerial refueling, intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance).

However, I do agree that rifle qualification should be part of Air Force Readiness. Currently, only airmen who bear firearms on duty, who are armed in-garrison, or deploying to a contingency operation are given proper weapons training and are limited to the type of weapon they are authorized to carry. As for my AFSC, if deployed, I will only be trained on the M9.

The Air Force requires an annual Active Shooter Training (Expeditionary Active Shooter Training for airmen deploying) that teaches airmen to "escape, barricade, or fight" but again, your fighting chance is limited to the type of weapon you have been trained on and authorized to carry. Although this training also discussed that recent shootings in Germany and Afghanistan have changed the way that leadership views the criticality of weapons handling skills and that commanders must ensure weapon training extends beyond qualifications training, Air Force has yet to incorporate these into actions.

The Air Force is just different that way, also probably why it doesn't have its own battle cry.
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SSgt James Stanley
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I did already.
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MSgt J D McKee
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I answered before, below, but had another thought---the USAF lacks weapons training, the USMC infantry doesn't, or don't seem to from the outside. What I do remember the Marines lacking on one occasion was bullets in their guns. Or at least magazines. It was on the TV news in the 1980's when they walked ashore in Beruit, Lebanon, all kinds of guns and gear, and not a one of them had a magazine in their weapon. That was on the news and I watched it from the safety of the UK. I couldn't believe that. This was the Marines who got blown up not long after that and killed 200+ of them, I think it was. So, Marines, please answer a question I haven't thought of since the 1980's---was this common practice back then?
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MSgt Joseph Rende
MSgt Joseph Rende
9 y
This was because of Jimmy Carter
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SGM Joel Cook
SGM Joel Cook
>1 y
In Baghdad, Iraq 2004-2005 it was damn near impossible to get any 9mm ammo. We were told it was because all 9mm ammo went to the Iraqi Army whose main battle weapons all fired 9mm rounds. We had a couple of USMC officers who were single officer replacements show up with no magazine and no ammo for their weapon. By running a courtesy service (taxi) to the airport I was able to ask the departing personnel for their 9mm ammo. I was never personally able to get any magazines. I approached my Col with the problem. He sent an email back to his subordinate unit commander. About two weeks later he got a package with five magazines in it. He had me sign for and distribute them as required. One walked off with a USMC LTC when she departed. I had to let my Colonel know one had walked off because she was stationed off site and used other transportation to get to the airport. Two weeks later it got mailed back to Iraq with a letter of apology to my Colonel. All is well that ends well.
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TSgt Daniel Johnson
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Edited 9 y ago
AF is the specialists of the Air not ground combat and to make us equivalent to the Army/Marines either one would require so much additional training that it would diminish our nation's Air Power. I'd rather be manning the berms with a platoon of well trained riflemen than a Wing's worth of half trained Airman at my back. That said I am a AF Qualified Marksman on the M-16/M-4 and I've never attempted to be M-9 qualified. Later in my career I was qualified on crew served weapons during convoy training such as the M-240, M-249, and M-2. Also earlier in my career before I was retrained I was Pig (M-60) qualified when I was a Civil engineer as part of our Prime Beef exercises where we went and played war games at Fort Polk. In the AF we don't have degree's of marksmanship your either Qualified, non-qualified, or a Marksman. My proficiency does not come from my military training. It came from growing up with weapons and my father a retired cop who has been shot on two separate occasions both times off duty being a be prepared for anything kind of guy.
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TSgt James Carson
TSgt James Carson
>1 y
Why do any of you worry about weapons and such. You fail to see the big picture that we won't have a country as our parents knew it in a few years. liberals will keep civil unrest going without push until we have no country to worry about. Those of you now serving may want to think deeply about your service. As it is going, you won't see a retirement or medical care that will be much more than a asprin and a band aid. People have gotten so lazy in this country, they want others to come into this country and hopefully work to support them and they won't have to melt into American ways. Weapons are now the least of your worries.
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