Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 9 y ago
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Responses: 914
PO1 Utilitiesman
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Seabees have to qualify annually, but there are some I wouldn't give a pointy stick to, much less a weapon.
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PO3 April Strayer
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What I understand, air national guard any way only us to qualify on the M-16 a few months before they or if they deploy.. not sure for active duty.
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SMSgt Mike Morrow
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Most Airman will never see combat. If a base is attacked the non-combat troops are usually removed, in Germany they issued a card with a serial number of an M16 and you were told to report to the amory for the weapon, then make your way to the French coast and a specific port for a ride home. The base personnel were not expected to fight that was left up to the Security Forces (Cops). In Thailand the base was attacked and all personnel where recalled from off base. About half were so drunk they had trouble even walking, yet they were issued a weapon and told to get ready. Total ClusterF**k. Thank God the Amory had the sense not to issue ammo. The Air Force fights with airplanes not groumd troops normally. I had to qualify annually with a .45acp because I was on flying status. Never saw an M9 until after I retired.
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A1C John Reese
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USAF '76-'80. We were taught to use the M-16, but only briefly. Those with a rural background got it quicker than those from an urban life. I didn't really care if I qualified, since the "aim" in Basic was to get us used to following orders and looking like we were in the military. The reason for the stress on familiarity with arms? Air Force units had been overrun before during Vietnam, and this was a fairly fresh memory with our instructors.
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MSgt James "Buck" Buchanan
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Think about where the original air arm of the military was stationed during WWII, and even WWI....always at a safe distance behind the front lines because they could get to the fight under their own power with sabotage really the only threat. Thus, minimal firearms training was needed except for whatever security personnel were necessary to have around. Even in the Pacific most aircraft were far from the battle except those stationed on an aircraft carrier when the battle was brought to them. Coming through Viet Nam the face of war began to change as guerilla warfare became almost the norm and air bases were under constant threat from the ground. Unfortunately there was no lesson learned and new tactics/strategy put into place. This was partly because we were still the baddest dog on the block and could attack anywhere in the world from bases within the good ol' US of A. Base defense needs to and should change as now even bases within our borders are subject to hit and run attacks and everyone needs to know not only how to pull the trigger, but also how to get more bullets loaded to keep fighting. I always felt vulnerable except during those times when I was stationed on an Army location and we had to do things their way.
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Sgt Kevin Doris
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When I joined in 1972 we spent 1 day doing survival training and the gun range. Survival consisted of marching to a mess tent set up a couple of miles away. There was no salt or pepper for our meal. The gun range we learned to break down the weapon and put it back together. Then off to the range to fire like I think 100 rounds. If your gun jammed you stuck your thumb in your ear till a qualified person un-jammed your gun. When I was headed to southeast asia we spent a whole day firing-prone, thru windows,other ways-clicked off some rounds in auto. I remember interrogation resistance training. and who knows what else. We were going into a hot area and they wanted us to have some training. I had a an air force buddy at Bien Hoa AFB during Tet. He was a crew chief like me. Someone told him to get in a hole, handed him an M-16 and ammo and to shoot the enemy.
But remember, your job is to protect the base and personnel on the base. My job was to keep the birds flying. There's a big difference in job descriptions. Didn't you have the occasional thought to ride co-pilot in a F-16 just once? Why couldn't you? Cause you don't know squat about the aircraft. I flew co-pilot on a mission (complicated story) in an OV-10 because I knew the aircraft. Stick to your job and do it well Airman-all the best.
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A1C Michael Rowland
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I absolutely agree. EVERY member of the military should be able to handle a rifle and sidearm and be required to go through bi-annual training and practice for it.
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SGM Joel Cook
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I was on a Joint Task Force in Baghdad, Iraq. Several Air Force personnel had huge difficulty adapting to an outside the wire OPTEMPO. Our CO was an Air Force Colonel. It got back to me that he had shot the clearing barrel on two occasions because he could not remember to drop the magazine, clear the chamber, and pull the trigger. The next convoy he and I went on Together and every time thereafter, I accompanied him to the clearing barrel and talked him through it. He always wanted to clear the chamber, then drop the mag. This left a round in the chamber which he then shot the barrel with. I know he shot the barrel one more time after that and got a verbal reprimand from his next higher Commander. I find it hard to fathom that the Air Force feels that weapons training prior to combat zone deployment is not important nor time effective. Last time I checked the Air Force was part of the US Military. Not saying you have to be a weapon expert but competence and safety are a must. Just like knowing how to fly an aircraft correctly, or drive your vehicle, or just about anything else that can result in your death if not done to standard.
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Col Kenneth Klein
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If it is the Air Force, why aren't you a pilot? Because we all have a different skill to bring to "the fight". The Marines (my first service) wear crossed rifles to signify all are riflemen. Each service has a role, and within those services a task - cyber, space, air base ground defense, etc. All have to familiarize with the weapon to become a member, but not everyone needs your level of expertise...that's why we need you. I expect Airmen join the military for a litany of reasons, but to carry a weapon may not be the primary reason. Bottom line, teach them well.
Col K2 USAF retired (but an enlisted Marine first)
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MSgt Health Services Management
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They got cheap did not want pay for AMO and the virtual Weapons training stucks
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SSgt James Tadlock
SSgt James Tadlock
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It sort of shows how much our lives were valued vs. weapons and ammunition. We went into a hell hole in Vietnam with insufficient training to say the least. With being on night duty and working with ARC Plans (B-52 strikes) I almost never slept in a hooch. Me and my working partner would simply get off duty and sleep across the hall from the duty section. We got away with it till right at the end of the year. I felt a lot safer that way. And why not ? With the way this war turned out. We were lucky. In Vietnam you never knew where you might end up. Most places had a short life expectancy.
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