Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
392K
4.23K
1.93K
562
562
0
Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
Avatar feed
Responses: 907
MSgt Joseph Haynes
0
0
0
Sounds like you should have joined the Army or Marines.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSG Paul Headlee
0
0
0
Don't they all just jump in their jets and attack? Yes, everyone in every billet should be able to become a Rifleman (Riflelady?) if necessary. This is because while we can anticipate what could happen at any given moment we don't actually know until it has happened. You can postulate all you want but if there's some catastrophic, unforeseen event that alters the consistency of our force structure we'd better be ready to shift gears. This country has not had to fight a war for its general survival in quite some time. I think people lose sight of that and then we get somewhat compartmentalized. There are certainly other tasks that should be learned in addition to operating weapons.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Thomas Ivanoff
0
0
0
I was qualified as were all my fellow basic training members in 1972 with an m-16. We were given 10 rounds to train with then50 rounds to qualify. When I got to my final base, F E Warren I was allowed to qualify with a pistol. It was associated with my MOS and the control of top secret crypto materials. Yi did not carry a weapon while operating as a Missile Tech but we always had a security police airman with us while in the field. He carried an M-16. We carried tools. He guarded the silo topside, we repaired the nuclear missile in the silo. Now I think we have forgotten a very important group of airmen who hat were experts in riflemanship as well as jungle warfare and enemy evasion. Those special force Airmen were the ParaRescue. They operated in every environment there is and are respected by all branches of the service. They hung from a jungle buster with a rifle around their neck and a first aid kit with survival gear on his back. They are recognized for many heroic actions. I know one of those guys and can tell you he was a wonderful man humble and proud but haunted by memories from Vietnam. He was promoted and retired as a Warrant Officer from F E Warren in the late 1970's. He finished up his career as overseeing the helicopter maintenance group at Warren his name was Grover. He passed away a few years ago. He was liked by many of his brethren and respected by all. So when we discuss the Air Force and their usage and expertise of weapons, let's remember we have some of the very best riflemen in the US Military.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Sgt Kevin H.
0
0
0
So do the other branches train cooks and office personnel the way they do infantry? Like regular weapons qualifications? I’ve always wondered the same....why USAF Troops never touch a weapon after bootcamp unless they’re Security.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SP6 Peter Kreutzfeldt
0
0
0
TET 68 Ton San Nut (Spl) airbase should have been reason enough for the Air Force to know what to do with a rifle or pistol. For the NVA it was like shooting fish in the water
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SSgt Andrew Urban
0
0
0
As a AF 'bus driver' if you will, in the early 2000's we were trained to perform combat convoy operations. In the early portion, we provided gun truck security in Iraq and Afghanistan. We ran the mission, we plotted the trip, reported to who we had to report to, manned the crew served weapons, and even drove. The training provided had several aspects of the mission shoved down our throats for 2 months straight from sniper instructors, SF personnel, folks that had returned recently and even other services. Constant reaction training was provided from scenarios experience in country. We spent weeks learning combat life saver techniques. We spent a few weeks learning from the Army's style of training to include some brief hand to hand.

Our training was so intense and so detailed it made the actual mission seem easy. (Don't get me wrong, it was no walk in the park!) We conquered the mission, we dominated what was thrown at us. Our U.S. civilians whom we would escort would beg for the AF over the Army all the time! Not to be anti Army in anyway, but their methods really made no sense. It wasn't that it was confusing or different, it simply was unsafe, unrealistic, and not well thought through.

For the Air Force to be combat trained beyond their job requirement, is maybe a bit much. If their specific job does require them to be combat ready then yes, prepare those folks.

When the Air Force did ramp up their basic training for a more combat involved training, I chuckled.
Can you imagine a combat finance office? "Sir, Sir,... sign here...." or "here is your latest LES" as their is weapons fire and explosions.

In another view, yes, there shooould be some more extensive training for the possibility of a installation take over.

Has there been anything wrong the way it has been done all this time so far?
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Nathan Krawitz
0
0
0
Lots of members, mostly Navy and Air Force, are not front line fighters. They are support. There is a requirement to have varying levels of familiarization and safety, but that's about it. You're there to fix things, not kill the enemy. If you are deployed in a hostile area, support personnel might require to be armed, which triggers additional requirements.

My time in the Navy, we only needed familiarization, not even close to being good. Can you safely load and unload? Can you aim and fire? Can you get rounds in the general direction? Good. If you are accurate enough, you might get a ribbon for Marksman or Sharpshooter, and if you're really good, it's an Expert medal.

My time in the Air Force Reserve meant infrequent qualification (mostly budget cuts). To meet Air Force minimum qualification, merely not being a danger to self isn't good enough. The equivalent of Navy Marksman is needed to qual. Air Force Expert ribbon is roughly the same as the Navy Expert medal.

The Army and Marines use your rifle and PT scores as part of total points for promotion. The Marines get up to 300 points each. I don't know about the Army. There is ample time for training and qualification.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
Lt Col Richard Johnson
0
0
0
Every member is trained to use the M-4 and M-9. Unfortunately, most of the training now is "Just in Time" training for deployments. There are a lot of Airmen who have a mastery of their service weapon. But again, when your training budget is slashed an easy cut comes to certain things, and weapons training becomes a "just in time" verses "master of skill."
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
SP6 Blendia Ellington
0
0
0
Wow that's hard to take in
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small
MSgt Retiree
0
0
0
While I don't pretend to be a Marine Rifleman or an Army 11B, I spent 20% of my 20+ years in Combat Communications and Forward Air Control Posts (FACP). M-16 Quals were a must and most of us had multiple quals that included 9mm/.38, M-60, and m-203. For better or worse, the rank & file Airman/Officer doesn't have the opportunity to train/qual beyond BMTS or Officer Training.
(0)
Comment
(0)
Avatar small

Join nearly 2 million former and current members of the US military, just like you.

close