Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited >1 y ago
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SSG Edward Tilton
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what will they do if they are overrun or there are turncoats. They need to be able to perform basic soldiers er tasks
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SSG Edward Tilton
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A shame, they have the best uniforms, They didn’t have a clue in Vietnam. I guess it is tradition. I remember in Korea in 1964 the entire 7th Infantry Division would do a five mile rifle and pack every Wednesday evening after chow. When you got used to it, it became easy
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SSG Healthcare Specialist (Combat Medic)
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I completely agree with you. A Warfighter is a Warfighter. I believe that these Warfighters must have a more than basic knowledge of small arms (to include the M16/M4 rifles) and be proficiently qualified to use them. Some of the answers I read give me the impression that such skills are beneath the Air Force and they have no time for it with statements such as the Army or Marines are tasked with facility security. Anywhere I’ve been to, regardless if I’m in the rear or forward deployed in theater, there has been an accessible training range. In the end we are all responsible for our own lives and even Airmen have the right to the knowledge that may save their them. In just over half a century the US Air Force has fallen far away from its roots in the Army Air Corps and The US Army. Unit Commanders should have the facilities and materials to train their personnel in firearm proficiency.
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CPO Dale Dietzman
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CPO here, long out of the Reserves, after a total of 26 1/2, 8 1/2 being Active Duty. My very first PCS orders were to the "Naval Air Facility, Cam Ranh Bay, Republic of Vietnam" where, though independent, we were still technically a tenant command of Cam Ranh Bay AF Base. We were in their outermost perimeter, across the (shared) runways. Before being deployed to the (very hot) War Zone, even if in a somewhat "cooler' area, besides having to go through SERE School, [in case of needing to evade capture, or being a POW] we spent a week at Camp Pendleton, with a few Coasties mixed in, who were going too. We had to qualify with the M-16, the .45 pistol, and at least fire the 50 caliber machine gun. To give us confidence in what fire you can lay down, we did night firing, on static vehicle targets, 20 men at a time, with magazines of "all tracers". We lit up California's night sky! Upon arrival, as part of my 'check in' I had to repeat the "qualification" on M-16, .45, and 50 cal, to be issued my "gun card". When standing armed watches, at night, by duty section, your "gun card" was used to check out an M-16, a bet of pouches with magazines, preloaded, and a (primitive) "starlight scope". I can't speak for how the AF treated security, but just before I arrived, they had had one major ammo dump "blown away" by the VC/NVA, no matter how "protected" our area was supposed to be. We were drawing "hazardous duty pay" for a reason. In later years, I never had to qualify with personal weapons UNTIL I pulled a three months rotation of "Security Police" duty at NAS Key West, as a PO1. Just before leaving AD. My 'going away present", though they didn't KNOW I was not "reuping" again. Same-oh-same-oh, without the 50 cal machine gun, but WITH the 12 gauge "riot" shotgun. Which you had to shoot 'from the hip'. Others were blowing holes in the coral, or cutting the tops out of mangrove trees. Old country boy here, I cut all three "man" targets in half, at the belt buckle line. Even 'Guns", who ran the range, was impressed. So I saw both sides. Yes, most of the time the AF isn't "up close and personal" with an enemy using those kinds of weapons. The Navy is usually more concerned about torpedoes and such, than 7.62 or 5.56 ammo. BUT that said, EVERY rule has it's exceptions. Having a cadre of select individuals, who have rotated thru Security Duty, TDY, in their career, like I went to SP duty (and it most definitely wasn't Shore Patrol, LOL) would likely be a good, pro-active policy for the AF. And those who shouldn't be carrying a weapon, ever, won't be in that group. But you never know what "the next war" will bring. Being ready for contingencies that HAVE arisen, in the past, prevents "PPP".
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Capt Rob Carty
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Edited >1 y ago
As an Air Force JAG in the 90s (a lawyer, for crying out loud), I had to qualify on the M-9 to be eligible for mobility status. Have things changed??

(Also, good job, RallyPoint, with suggesting this post to me six years later.
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SSG Samuel Kermon
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You are trying to teach and that is laudable. When I want toboot camp I didn't know much about tge M16 but my instructors had to teach me. Don't give up or get angry. Just keep swinging away.
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CWO3 Us Marine
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Not essential for all Airmen, based on their mission. Hotel Security has their back besides.
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LTC Kenneth Black
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I was a photo technician in Thailand in 1975 and was pulled to be a "security police augmentee" to help protect the base. They gave us about 2 weeks training in weapons, flares, crew served weapons, etc. It was woefully inadequate, but I had grown up with guns, so I was not uncomfortable performing that duty, even when we had the occasional probing of the perimeter by communist forces. At one point, we were surrounded by 5,000 Chinese Army forces for about a week. Had they actually attacked, with only around 300 security forces and about 250 Marines on the base, we were toast if it weren't for the close air support that kept them at bay. I totally agree with you, airmen should be riflemen too.
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MSgt Gary Hinkelman
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Garrett,
You have the right to your opinion, but if I was still on active duty, I'd take offense. I think most people do not realize that the USAF's mission is different than Army or Marines. We rely upon other branches and the USAF SF to protect us when needed. You need me crewing my fighter jet, more than carrying a gun. Again, it is your job to defend my multimillion-dollar fighter jet and my ass too. All along while I am preparing our pilots to drop bombs and blow stuff up with the aircraft.

Yes, when overseas I have carried a gun during my time crewing my jets. However, that is not a normal SOP for most USAF bases. If ever needed, I can promise you that most USAF members will take up a gun and defend.

I think you are expecting USAF members to be as skilled as you are and that is not fair to them. Also, the USAF does not normally allow members to practice using the M16 whenever they want. I know if I would have had that option, I would have done it (cause it's fun).

What can you do to give other members the chance to improve their skills?
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SSG George Duncan
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because/i think/that if the other get to where you'll are we have all ready lost so become VC
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