Posted on May 28, 2015
Why don't all members of the Air Force have to be fully qualified to be a rifleman in case of hostile events?
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I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Rifleman
3P: Security Forces
Air Force
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 914
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This is why you have have Army aviation to protect the Air Force guys on the flight lines in war zones ;)
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Altho I do know what the basic tng for the Air Force is like I would say that this should have been taught in basic tng.
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TSgt Chip Dollason
Basic training is simply familiarization. Depending on your job, if you fail to qualify, they send you to your base for better instruction. They just push em thru at basic anymore.
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Actually, my superintendent (prior Soldier and prior Marine) and I were discussing this recently. If they need an "all hands on deck" (especially with the branches cutting everything/one), the USAF is in trouble. The Marines and Army go through combat training, formations, firing squads, etc. The Air Force? Unless we are Special Operations or Security Forces, we get one day to learn how to shoot, actually shoot and then qualify. I have only touched an M16 twice in my 5 years of being in. Once in basic training, and once when a rifle was needed for JRTC.
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MSgt (Join to see)
No problem, The AF Tried squeezing everything into a one day course, but it had a high failure rate.
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TSgt (Join to see)
Gotta use our giant Air Force brains to remember that sh!t forever then! Muscle memory be damned!
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IMHO the issue is the word "all". If you are in billet that has the potential to deploy downrange, then you need to be qualfied on a weapon (at least M16 or M9). However, not everyone in the USAF is goint to deploy. Heck, with global reach of aircraft, most USAF Airmen can do their wartime job from bases in the US or in allied countries. Most will never go downrange into a combat zone. It is a waste of money to qualify airmen with live ammo who will never be put into a position to pull the trigger. The same can be said for many Navy and even some Army billets (like the one I currently am slotted to). Now I DO believe, with modern simulation tech, that those in non-deploying slots should do regular weapons familiarization on simulators (ie weaponeer) so that they at least are familiar with the weapon.
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TSgt David L.
...most USAF Airmen can do their wartime job from bases in the US or in allied countries...
That would be a neat trick. Having the same satellite uplink as a drone on our robots. Then some Army guy could just drive a rig to the IED/VBIED and unload the robot for us. I could be kicked back here in the states drinking a beer running a robot and hope everything can be done remotely. Or the Army could just do all the AF work outside the wire.
That would be a neat trick. Having the same satellite uplink as a drone on our robots. Then some Army guy could just drive a rig to the IED/VBIED and unload the robot for us. I could be kicked back here in the states drinking a beer running a robot and hope everything can be done remotely. Or the Army could just do all the AF work outside the wire.
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MSgt (Join to see)
The AF did study in the late 90's and early 2000's. The subject was on simulator weapons training. It was found that when the shooters conducted more simulator training they began to lose their fundamentals and ability to fire an actual weapon. The Air Force stopped using them to qualify people and started using them for what their true intentions were.
I would much rather see Airmen burn through the bullets and retain knowledge. IT takes around 3,000 repitions to build muscle memory. I think we need to start building muscle memory inot the Airmen.
I would much rather see Airmen burn through the bullets and retain knowledge. IT takes around 3,000 repitions to build muscle memory. I think we need to start building muscle memory inot the Airmen.
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LTC Paul Labrador
What kind of simlulators did they study? Modern simulators used by the Army are actual freal weapons with the barrels and bolts replaced so they are compatible with the simulator (which uses an air compressor in place of the gasses created by gunpowder). These weapons actually have real recoil, can be programmed to create malfunctions, etc. They are great to train fundamentals and familiarization of the weapon and how it functions, because they are actual weapons.
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That was the hardest thing to get used to when I transferred over to the air guard from army guard.
Because if afsc I only qualifies every three years unless I was deployed
Because if afsc I only qualifies every three years unless I was deployed
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You have to realize that not every AFSC is required to shoot every six months like the cop field. I think the general base populous only has to be certified once a year, unless they are deploying in which case the head out to the range. I know how you feel when it comes to the lack of familiarity of everybody else involving weapons. As a Senior Airman in Germany, I had to walk a Tech Sergeant through basic clearing procedures after a base exercise.
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SSgt (Join to see)
I think the point is that every AFSC SHOULD be required to requal semi annual or quarterly. I would agree with that assessment.
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SSgt (Join to see)
Personally, I would have loved having to spend a day or half a day every six months at the shooting range re-qualifying.
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The AF perform a different mission with other requirements. The military provides the tools and training to do the job required.
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SSgt (Join to see)
While this is true, there is also a need for every member of the military to be able to be a part of an effective defensive force. That effectiveness diminishes when you do not have regular qualifications with small arms.
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All should be, however the AF doesn't focus on being proficient with a weapon. If you look at the AF ranges in the past most folks don't even know how to preform immediate action. They are taught in tech school that if the rifle malfunctions to just raise their hand and a instructor will come by to fix the issue. I may have went from Green to Blue but not one day passes that I don't regret my decision.
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MSgt (Join to see)
There has been a huge turn around with how weapons training is to be conducted. I remember when my last class was prior to the change in making immediate actions a Go/No Go part of the training. The CATM Community pushed for that change for a long time and we won the fight. However, not every fight can be won. I would suggest that if you really regret your decision to join the Air Force go back to the other branch that you came from.
Our ranges are superior to other ranges and are used frequently by other branches and Local (and Federal) LE agnecies.
Our ranges are superior to other ranges and are used frequently by other branches and Local (and Federal) LE agnecies.
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SSgt (Join to see)
If you truly believe that our ranges are superior to other branches, you are fooling yourself. If there was a way for me to go back, I would have done it. I am only a year from retirement so I could spend it on shit burning detail and be just fine as long as there is a check at the end. You can't compare ours to others until you have done more than one.
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