Posted on May 28, 2015
Why don't all members of the Air Force have to be fully qualified to be a rifleman in case of hostile events?
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I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Rifleman
3P: Security Forces
Air Force
Edited 10 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 907
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I totally agree. I was in the AF Security Police back in the early 1980s stationed at Castle AFB, CA (SAC). I was on a 4 man fire team qualified with the M16, M60, and M203. We constantly ran exercises to ensure we could defend all the B52s and other priority weapons. I believe that basic training should train all airmen more with Air Base Ground Defense to be ready to be augmented if needed.
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Fly your planes, shoot people on the ground, bomb them, and ferry ground fighters to where they need to be, and don't worry about being a gunman yourself. I was in the USN for a career and had training, but under no circumstances was I ever expected to use it unless there was an emergency, and bubba I mean a real emergency. Not much call for an expert rifleman out on the seas bouncing around on ships.
GW
GW
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IF you remember when you went through BASIC you had to go to the range and shoot an M-16! I was trained, as a part of my job, to be a part of a 44 man mobility team. I don't know if they still to that, BUT I know that all Security Forces personnel still go through "Camp Bullis"! Many forget but we do have a contingency that many Airman are assigned as AUGMENTS to the SF and assist at the gates and other areas to provide support while the MAIN SF personnel can provide the main force of the assault and attract teams when and where needed. Todays' Security Forces (Security Police in my day) have branched out into a larger part of the Security Forces and are trained (in more detail) in the protection of the bases and aircraft.
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A missing element in the conversation is the incredibly inadequate training of most of the Air Force. When I entered the Air Force in 1986, we touched a weapon exactly once...and that was an m16 modified to fire 22 rounds that jammed every other shot and trained to clear the weapon? No. We raised our hand so range personnel could do it for us. Officer training school in 1995 wasn't much better though we did fire the m9 as well. Add to that only qualifying when deployment is coming and you have your answer. I totally agree most communications types are pretty challenged but it's not on them, proficiency requires training regularly and I recall numerous times in my career when we were given a reduced amount of ammo due to shortages due to budget...you want proficiency, it has a cost.
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I was assigned to an ROTC detachment at a university in a city where there was also a Navy Reserve detachment. Since I had a rifle range for university and ROTC use, I was asked to host an M16 qualification event for Navy personnel from E5 to O4. I asked the coordinator this same question: "why are these people not already qualified?" He said, "Well, we figure if the enemy can withstand our 16-inch guns and then walk across the ocean to attack us, we're pretty much screwed anyway."
But of course, that was tongue in cheek. He saw the value in having his people qualified in the basic combat rifle, and took action to see it done. They all qualified.
But of course, that was tongue in cheek. He saw the value in having his people qualified in the basic combat rifle, and took action to see it done. They all qualified.
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The Air Force is a combat force. I was an SP (now SF) in the air force. One of the duties of SP/LE/SF if is Air Base Ground Defense (ABGD) our duties were to protect the base, so the rest of the base could do their jobs. Like maintain aircraft readiness, so that the base can defend it's self from the air. Not sure if it still exist, but we also had an agmenty force (sure it's spelled wrong) which was comprised of individuals who were qualified to carry an M-16 and would assist our unit if needed. Things at a base would have to be pretty dire for those people to call to action. Today's SF are well equipped and trained to handle any situation that may occur on or around a military installation that they are assigned to.
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I was in SAC from 1963 to 1966, and the only time I got fire a rifle was in basic training. We were using WW2 M2 carbines. I scored a 93 at 100 yards. I was brought up with firing a 22 rifle. I never got to fire a gun again in the Airforce. Our annual qualification was only none on paper. Our gate guards were all AF police. Ted McNamara
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I was aircrafts maintenance and then I switched to Ops. I have no idea how to shoot a gun and that is why I joined the airforce because I don't want to know. I want to just have a job where I used my brain and thats it. If I wanted to shoot people I could've stayed in Detroit. If it comes down to airforce personnel having to use guns, we've already lost the fight lol.
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Growing up we saw Air Force pickups parked at the Circle K all the time with a gun rack in the window. They were actually security for the various missile silos around southern Arizona. Everyone in the military has a job, some use weapons as their tool, some use a wrench, some use a potato peeler.
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I look at things a bit different. I think all Military should have a rudimentary knowledge of the small arms in use. Likewise children should have some knowledge of firearms for no other reason than safety. Like my Dad taught me when I was young my Sons were taught young and even my young Granddaughters will be taught when the time is right. JMO
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Most of the Forward AF Bases are just carved out roads for your quick insertion and are not intended for permanent Ops. These areas are usually set up by SF and AF Operators. Most Rear area AFB, only need internal security and the host country provides outer perimeter security. However, I beg to differ with you about AF personnel not being able to shoot move and communicate. When I was in IRAQ in 08. I trained AF and several other units in the Operations of the MRAP and the squads of AF personnel were not only highly motivated they could shoot really good. So always never judge a book by its cover it might Suprise you.
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Right, and every Doctor of Optometry should also be a general surgeon because you never know when they might need to resection a bowel. Unlike the Army or Marines, mostt airforce and navy personnel will never be in direct contact with opposing front line forces. But the small segment that may/will be are properly trained; you just don't see a lot of them.
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You should spell out Security Forces…especially when asking questions across services. The AF has SF and those outside of the AF may be misled.
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They do, just with different levels of qualification requirements.
Some career fields every 6 month, some once a year, some just before deployment
Some career fields every 6 month, some once a year, some just before deployment
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If you look at primary missions, you’ll notice that the AFSCs or MOSs are very different. I do support fitness standards as well as war fighting skills for all military but to ask those in the AF to spend their day doing what the infantry, artillery, missile, and tank units do is like asking those same MOSs to fly B-2, F-22, C-17, and a whole variety of other aircraft. It would also be the same as having those MOSs repair, maintain, inspect, and launch and recover all of these same aircraft. To say that that you spend your day differently than most airman is an understatement but don’t you dare challenge the reason they belong in the military just like you. If you are a ground troop in a fire fight, keep that in mind when you call for close air support.
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I was in the Air Force 66 to 72 in Communications. In Japan and in the states, we were protexted by the Security Police. I had to qualify on an M16 every year. When I got to my base in Vietnam, imwas assigned to the Reserve Defense which is the last line kf defense if being over run. This is an augmentee position and being an Augie Doggie, I went thru weapons training on M16, M60, pop flares, M79 and grenades. Not everyone had that training. When I got back to the States I was in SAC and was assigned to the alert team as the communications member. I understand that all members are now bettwer trained in weapons and self defense. Now women are trained as well whereas in my time women were not trained in weaponry.
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If people listened to me EVERYONE would be weapons qualified, like the Israelis. Minimum service, during which everyone would learn to shoot, move and communicate. There would be fewer women who don't know how to respond to an emergency and yes, everyone in uniform should be able to defend their immediate area. Sgt Mack M-14 Expert 1st Class M-60 Gunner
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