Posted on May 28, 2015
SSgt Security Forces
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Carbine backwards mag
I have noticed through the years of being in the Air Force (Security Forces member here) that most people in the Air Force are clueless when it comes to M-4/M-16/M-9. This is outrageous! What are they supposed to do if the enemy comes knocking on our door step and everyone needs to fight. I have taught classes on the M-4 with communication airmen and have seen them completely mess up clearing out the weapon, loading it (magazine upside down or rounds the wrong way), and just completely incapable of achieving a zero on target after four rounds of firing. I am a big fan of how the Army and Marines teach that your are always a rifleman first. It almost seems like some of the Airmen don't expect to carry a weapon (ummmm why did you join the military in the first place)? I wish the Air Force would pick up on this to make us a more combat ready force. But, enough of me what are your thoughts?
Edited 9 y ago
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TSgt Aerospace Medical Service
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For the same reason that SERE training can be done on-line, medical readiness training can taught by non-medical personnel, the term “certified” doesn’t mean proficient, and just-in-time training is considered good enough when your life and someone else’s life is on the line. You do understand how much of the USAF is PR? It’s perception and perception IS reality. For the same reason that SO MANY inspections are now paper/documentation based and people aren’t allowed to do what they are supposedly trained and qualified to do. If we don’t demonstrate that there’s a deficiency or problem, how can we say that there is a deficiency or problem? Do you know how often we turned inspection into jokes because those evaluating us had no idea of what we were supposed to be doing. Our section received an OUTSTANDING rating during a CUI and we just rambled out a bunch of words that we knew they wouldn’t understand just to see if those inspecting us were knowledgeable on the subjects. It’s a eye opening experience when the colored lenses come off.
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LT Louis McKellar
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As an E3 going from a CONUS base to remote Alaska, which is considered overseas, I had to qualify with the M16. As an NCO in the command post, I carried and qualified with a 2inch S&W model 15 revolver.

As a naval officer, I famfired a pump shotgun, a model 1911 pistol and an M14.
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Sgt Donald Daugherty
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USAF Airman fly jets to the combat zone and control the airspace. It has been said that he who control the air space controls the war effort.
You silly grunts think with your rifles in a ditch. Airman service and maintain these jets and they take off and land at bases in safe zones... no where near the combat.
If an airbase is going to get over run by the enemy the Airman and jets are long gone.
If an airbase is under severe attack we have ARMY anti aircraft folks at the ready as well.
And... now with drone technology we cover even more ground with less people and from a further away distance.
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PO1 David M Burns
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with a few exceptions, the Air Force is primarily a combat support outfit. Notice I said "With a few exceptions" But they like to play soldier!
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Maj Robert Larkowski
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I applaud your enthusiasm for getting AF more Gung Ho but the mission of the AF is different from that of the Army and the other Services.
That will probably never change.
Enjoy your time in the AF!
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TSgt Max Lugauer
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I joined the Air Force on 22 Aug 1967, we had one day of dry fire ( it rained and we stayed in a classroom). The next day we had live fire, and 20 rounds of practice ( we fired all rounds on a 100-yard range). we had to get 50 rounds out of 65 on paper. After basic training, all we had to fire the M16 was once a year. in Aug 1969 I was sent to Viet Nam a month after I arrived either the 82nd Airborne or the 101 was pulled from around the Viet army and took over the protection of Tan Son Nhut AB. In the Air Force at that time had Security Police Augmentee. I volunteered we were given 1 week of firearms training on the M16, 38 revolvers, and the 12 gauge shotgun. We were the last line of defense if needed, which meant the Shit hit the fan and we were in deep trouble. I would do it again in a heartbeat. I retire on 1 Sept 1987.
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CPO Kurt Baschab
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I AGREE, WITH YOUR THOUGHTS, you will have service members telling you that the AIRFORCE IS NOT A GROUND FIGHTING UNIT, THIS IS TRUE , UNTILL IF HAS TO BE , BECAUSE IT IS BEING OVERRUN, SERVICE MEMBERS WILL SAY A AIR STRIP HAS NOT BEEN OVER RUN SINCE WWII , SAD TO SAY IF A NATION LIKE CHINA ATTACKS THEY HAVE THE BODYS TO OVERUN A AIRSTRIP, SO WE NEED EVERYONE QUALIFIED ON THERE SERVICE WEAPONS , HOW TO READ A MAP, ETC

WE CAN PRAY IT WONT HAPPEN , THAT WHEN IT HAPPENS, JUST ASK THE Commander of pearl harbor, he and all navel brass believed they were safe from air attack, yet they were mistaken , and lost battle ship row .

THIS IS WHY EVERYSINGLE SERVICE MEMBER SHOULD BE REQUIRED TO GET QUALIFIED AND ISSUED A SERVICE WEAPON . it never happens until it happens .

UNTILL IT IS BEING OVERRUN,
THEN EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE A GROUND FIGHTING UNIT , but it to late to train your service members and more us service member die, I believe every single member in the United States ARMED FORCES SHOULD BE REQUIED, TO BE QUALIFIED WITH THERE SERVICE WEAPON,
why?
SADLY IF WE GO TO WAR, WITH A MAJOR SUPER POWER, LIKE CHINA WE WILL NOT HAVE 3 TO 6 MOUNTHS TO REBUILD AND TRAIN AMERICA ARMED FORCES, LIKE WE DID DURING WWII , WE WILL BE LUCKY TO HAVE A WEEK, MOST LIKLY LESS THAN A HOUR , AMERICA ENEMIES WILL NOT ALLOW AMERICA A CHANCE TO BOUNCE BACK, LIKE WE DID DURING WWII .
this is why I also believe that every single service member should be Issued there service weapon at boot camp, they will keep there service weapon on or near them at all times until discharged from the service,

this is a weapon they will have the option of purchasing from there service when leaving the military service, they can only do this with a HONORABLE Discharge from there military service.

the reason this should be done, is to keep America free, god help this nation if we every go to war with a nation like china we will need every citizen who has been trained who is armed and ready to defend this country.

why?
America will not be as lucky as we were in WWII, WE WILL NOT GO UNTOUCHED, IF China attacks or some other nation attacks, we will be fighting in America city streets, because the US Government is currently not protecting her borders, as per her Constitutional duty's.

America enemy's are sending there service members, spy's TERRORIST, across America southern border to attack and cause chaos, when the times comes , if you do not believe this, you are willfully deft, dumb, and blind, to how dangerous this world is, the question is why are they allowing it to happen ? why is the government working so hard to disarm law abiding American citizens while refusing to investigate and arrest armed criminals and illegals? so yes having as many law abiding citizens and Vets and retired vets armed and ready to fight is protecting this nation. having retired vets, or vets with there service weapon ready to go cannot hurt this country, because the vets will be ready to protect this nation, family, friends, and neighbors.

every services member should not only be required to qualify with their service weapon, EVERY SINGLE MEMBER SHOULD BE REQIRED TO READ AND UNDERSTAND AND ANSWER THE FIVE (W) WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN AND WHY The DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE , THE UNITED STATES CONSTITION, AND EACH OF THE BILL OF RIGHTS, WERE WRITTIN .
WHY YOU ASK?

The answer is Simple,
WHEN YOU ENTERED YOUR MILTARY SERVICE, AND TOOK YOUR OATH, YOU BASICLY SAID , TO GOD AND COUNTRY TO EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO RISK LOOSEING LIFE AND LIMBS TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN CITIZENS INDIVIVIDUAL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS.
YET MOST American citizens HAVE NOT EVEN READ THESE DOCUMENTS .
SAD ;(

every single service member who has freely taken this OATH TO UPHOLD, PROTECT AND DEFEND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITION AND THE BILL OF RIGHTS FROM BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC THREATS, should be required to read and understand them , every service member needs to understand WE DID NOT TAKE A OATH TO PROTECT A POLTICAL PARTY, OR A SINGLE ELECTED OFFICAL AND THERE STAFF, WE TOOK this OATH of are own free will TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN CITIZENS INDIVIDUAL CONSTITUTIOANL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS.

The service member needs to understand that the united sates Constitution and the Bill of rights place restriction on what the federal government and states can do to the people and states.

IT DOES NOT ALLOW THE FEDERAL Government to do as she please, THIS MEANS that OATH YOU TOOK REQUIRES YOU TO PROTECT EVERY SINGLE GOD GIVEN RIGHT, NOT JUST THE ONES YOU LIKE OR YOUR POLTICAL PARTY LIKES.

YET SO MANY YOUNG, AMERICAN CITIZENS , BOTH MEN AND WOMEN HAVE NOT EVEN READ THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION OR THE BILL OF RIGHTS, AMERICA PUBLIC SCHOOLS NO LONGER TEACH AMERICAN CHILDERN WHAT THERE GOD GIVEN RIGHTS ARE.

THIS IS SO SAD.

WHEN YOU READ THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE , JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD YOU WILL SEE AT LEAST FOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS , in this document , might be more listed, BUT THIS IS WHAT I REMEBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD , THE FOUNDING FATHERS DID NOT JUST SEND KING GEORGE A LIST OF COMPLANTS, GRIEVANCES AND CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITED BY THE KING OF ENGLAND, NO! THE FOUNDING FATHERS ALSO LISTED AT LEAST FOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS THAT EVERY SINGLE HUMAN BEING HAS.

THEY ARE THE RIGHT TO LIFE, IT WAS LISTED FIRST, BECAUSE EVEN AMERICA FOUNDING FATHERS KNEW WITHOUT LIFE, YOU HAVE NO OTHER RIGHTS, THE 2ND RIGHT WAS LIBERTY, YOUR RIGHT TO SPEAK, TRAVEL GO TO CHURCH ETC WITHOUT FEAR OF BEING ATTACKED BY THE STATE OR OTHER CITIZENS THE Third, IS THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS , notice it says you have the right to pursue happiness, it does not Guarantee happiness or a equal outcome, just that the government will do it best to ensure fair play. THEN IT GOES ON TO EXPLANE WHY WE HAVE THE 2ND AMENDMENT, IT IS TO PROTECT THOSE GOD GIVEN RIGHTS, THAT NO GOVERMENT CAN TAKE AWAY UNLESS WE THE PEOPLE ALLOW IT.

THIS BEING SAID , WE THE AMERICAN SERVICE MEMBERS HAVE TAKEN A OATH TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE AMERICAN CITIZENS INDIVIDUAL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS FROM BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC THREATS.

SO HOW CAN WE AMERICAN SERIVICE MEMBERS PROTECT THESE GOD GIVEN RIGHTS? especially IF WE THE ARMED SERVICE MEMBERS HAVE NOT EVEN READ ONE SINGLE WORD OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTIONA OR THE BILL OF RIGHTS , Did we not take A OATH TO PROTECT THESE GOD GIVEN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS?

THAT BEING SAID, SHOULD WE NOT AT LEAST READ THEM? TO UNDERSTAND THEM ?

WE the service members TOOK A OATH TO PROTECT THESE GOD GIVEN RIGHTS, WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO PROTECT THE political party's or elected officials we are supposed to protect America and her citizens freedoms protect the AMERICAN CITIZEN GOD GIVEN RIGHTS ?

IT IS TRULY SAD MOST AMERICAN CITIZENS HAVE NOT EVEN READ, THE DECLARTION OF INDEPENDENCE, UNITED STATES CONSITITION OR THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

SO HOW ARE AMERICAN SERVICE MEMBERS SUPPOSED TO KNOW A LEAGAL ORDER FROM A UNCONSITIONAL ORDER IF THEY HAVE NOT EVEN READ AND CANNOT ANSWER THE FIVE (W)?
HAVE NOT BEEN TAUGHT RIGHT FROM WROUNG , HAVE NOT READ THE BIBLE, OR UCMJ

IF THE SERVICE MEMBERS HAVE NOT EVEN READ THE DOCUMENTS ONCE? HOW CAN the service member DEFEND THEM?

I BELIVE THIS IS JUST AS IMPORTANT IF NOT MORE, AS ENSURING EVERY SINGLE SERVICE MEMBER IS QUALIFIED WITH THIER SERVICE WEAPON , I BELIVE WE NEED BOTH.

IT JUST AS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND YOUR OATH, AND WHAT YOU ARE DEFENDING , AS IT IS TO BE PHYSICALLY FIT, OF SOUND MIND, AND BODY, in order to BE QUALIFIED WITH YOUR SERVICE WEPON, TO ENSURE YOU ARE CAPABLE OF DEFENDING THE AMERICAN CITIZEN RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS JUST AS IT IS IMPORTANT TO KNOW WHY YOU HAVE TAKEN THIS OATH.

WHEN YOU ENTERED YOUR MILTARY SERVICE, AND TOOK YOUR OATH, YOU BASICLY SAID , TO GOD, COUNTRY and TO EVERY AMERICAN CITIZEN THAT YOU ARE WILLING TO RISK LOOSEING LIFE AND LIMBS TO PROTECT THE AMERICAN CITIZENS INDIVIVIDUAL CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS.
boy did I go on a rant, and I digressed a bit
I will get off my soap box
HAVE A NICE DAY AND BE SAFE
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CDR William Kempner
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As a former USAF CCT Officer, I understand the thoughts from both sides, but as wisely pointed out here, the AF was never designed at a ground force/base defense force. USAF Security Police are the force for base security stateside, and they do a good job. Certainly , the people on the "sharp end"-PJ's, CCT, Combat Weather (or whatever their name is now) TACP-need to be qualified, stay qualified and proficient.(SPs, too, of course) But the average airman just doesn't need it, nor the time away from regular duties. Somebody mentioned Tet Offensive of 1968. I think that Airmen deploying to a combat theater SHOULD get some familiarization with sidearms, possibly the M-4 if the situation is dicey enough. Kind of like pilots/aircrew getting weapons qualification, based on their role and where they go. But broadbrush qualification of ALL Airmen is a waste of time and money.
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CPT Special Forces Officer
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I didn't know about this. Great idea!
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MAJ Ken Landgren
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If we rely on the Air Force to conduct ground operations we are f@cked. Run like hell!
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