Posted on Apr 28, 2014
SFC Bde Mobility Nco
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I would like to hear others opinions on this. Im not talking SM and SM because I want to hear more than an "army" answer. Example Soldier has an affair with a Civilian.
Posted in these groups: Ucmj UCMJ
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Responses: 73
SSG V. Michelle Woods
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Well the thesaurus says 'adultery' is synonymous with unfaithful, disloyal and falseness. No one is perfect and mistakes happen but to have the mindset there is nothing wrong with being unfaithful, disloyal and false, I'd say their morals don't match up with mine.

I certainly don't want to serve alongside someone who is disloyal to someone they loved enough to marry. How disloyal would they be to me?
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
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I'd like to add while I don't condone such things, I don't believe one single act, regardless of what it is, defines a person's character. I believe there's a difference between doing a jerk thing and being a jerk, if that makes sense.
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SFC Detachment Sergeant
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I would like to say that I didn't intend to vote this comment down,I was trying to vote it up.
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1SG Company First Sergeant
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if you hit the down vote again it takes it away
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SSG Human Resources Specialist
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SFC (Join to see), just click the down vote again and it will reset to 0
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SSG Robert Burns
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I am so sorry Bob.

I’ve been riddled with guilt and I have to confess. I have been tapping your wife, day and night when you’re not around. I’m not getting it at home, but that’s no excuse. I can no longer live with the guilt and I hope you will accept my sincerest apology with my promise that it won’t happen again.

Bob, feeling anguished and betrayed, went into his bedroom, grabbed his gun, and without a word, shot and killed his wife.

A few moments later, a second text came in:

Damn autocorrect. I meant “wifi,” not “wife.”
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1px xxx
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You have issues....
SPC Christopher Smith
SPC Christopher Smith
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And this is why we have so many SHARP and EO trainings, lmao. Good one though.
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SSG Psyop Instructor
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OMFG!!! LMFAO.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
SSgt Boyd Herrst
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Hahahahaha... sad, but kind of funny...
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SSG Chris Cherry
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I hate to break out the Army Values but it's a simple explanation.

Loyalty, Respect, Honor, Integrity.

You're breaking each of those values when you either cheat on your spouse or knowingly have a relationship with someone else's spouse.
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1SG Company First Sergeant
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parents are leaders for their children SFC Thomas
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SSG Chris Cherry
SSG Chris Cherry
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Ultimately, it doesn't matter if their parents failed at being parents. It was someone's responsibility to instill morals and ethics into the soldier from the minute he or she raised their right hand and became a service member. There is a difference between babysitting your soldier and communicating with them and ensuring that they're not degenerates.
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SSG Genaro Negrete
SSG Genaro Negrete
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I agree wholeheartedly with SGT Cherry's original statement. Those are values we are, at minimum, required to emulate. At best, we live and breath those values and pass them on to out soldiers.

I'm not going to through the "we are soldiers 24/7" at those that say what happens between two consenting adults is not the army's business. I feel that argument is self evident and explanatory.

As for the punitive results, would it be better to keep the current repercussions, or simply mark NO on the NCO's values block of their NCOER. As I understand it, that's pretty much a career death sentence these days. As for guilty junior soldiers not tied to an NCOER, perhaps a Bar to re-enlist on the basis of violating the Army values.
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SFC Operations Sergeant
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SGT Cherry, you are on the right path with almost all of it. However, an individual's ethic is nearly wholly based on their upbringing and influence from parental figures. This includes how they learned deductive reasoning and difference between right and wrong etc...The Army can influence an individuals decision making process and likely behavior through present leadership and mentoring with Army ethic as a foundation. But personal ethic is separate altogether and can usually not be altered once it is established. There is a decent chapter on this in FM 6-22 and ADRP 6-22 that covers how you must take into account an individuals personal ethic when establishing yourself as a leader.
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Why is adultery a crime in the military?
SGM Matthew Quick
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SFC Thomas,

By your initial post and most of your responses, it appears you're looking for validation for either a personal adulterous affair or a friend's affair...either way, you're not going to receive validation from a professional group; it goes against the Army Values.
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SFC Bde Mobility Nco
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MSG (p) Quick

Im not looking for validation for anything. I would like to hear others opinions.
My thing is this. To me marriage is a religious act and i the "crime" of adultery is a reglious crime not an Army crime. I just wanted to see did anyone think the same as i did. I dont think the Army made adultery a crime because of unit morale or anything of that nature, we didnt have the Army values when it was made a crime, thats why i dont factor in the Army values when it comes to certain rules the army has and enforces.
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SSG Trevor S.
SSG Trevor S.
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Marriage is also a contract between two people making a promise to each other. Contracts are legal documents, breaking a contract is a crime.
Also, we have always had the Army Values, just because they were not codified in some handy little acronym doesn't mean there were not values to live by, and earn trust of your brothers and sisters by.
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SGM Matthew Quick
SGM Matthew Quick
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SFC Thomas,

Are you suggesting that since marriage is a 'religious act' that the military should not have jurisdiction?
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1SG Michael Farrell
1SG Michael Farrell
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Goes back to the good order and discipline argument that also indicts some fraternization. I saw it used primarily against enlisted soldiers and a surprising number of officers and NCOs didn't realize it was an issue when it came into vogue in the 80s. 
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PO3 Account Management Specialist
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Edited >1 y ago
I feel like I may have shared this story on here before, but if so, oh well, I'll share it again. I served 4 years. I left after 4 years because the military "lifestyle" wasn't for me. While I know better than to stereotype every servicemember, I will say that MY chain of command, for the most part, was worthless. Completely worthless. 11 years later, working very successfully in the civilian world, I still feel this way.

One such reason that my chain of command was worthless was that we had a LPO (PO1) who reported to the ship from a previous command. He was a newly wed to a girl who he married "only because" he got her pregnant, and this was after a quick divorce from a previous wife (his words, not ours).

Since he was new onboard the ship, there was a certain girl on the ship who had "that" reputation, and everyone saw it. She had her eyes on him. We all warned him of her. He didn't listen. So, without going into all the drama, I'll let your imagination run wild because you probably wouldn't be wrong with your assumptions.

I will say that as a 19-20-21 year old junior sailor, it was VERY difficult for me to respect this piece of TRASH first class petty officer. How could I, in good conscience, trust a word that came out of his lying mouth, when I knew that his personal life was a complete mess? Mind you, my age, and my upbringing (southern bible belt) I didn't believe in a grey world back then. You were either a good moral person, or you weren't. This guy was not. He cheated on his first wife and got another woman pregnant. Married her, reported to another ship, met the questionable girl on the new ship and continued to make bad choices despite the warnings of those of us who told him to stay away from said girl.

I was young. Professionally, I did not have the ability to separate the two. He was a dirtbag in his personal life. I judged his character, and I didnt trust him as my LPO. I knew well enough to "play the military game" and say "aye aye, petty officer" when he told me to do something." but that was it.

So.... I say all that to say that is huge. And it makes me so angry that adultery is against the UCMJ but it gets swept under the rug so easily in order to salvage one's career. You know what? Don't make a stupid choice. It's really quite simple. I made a dumb choice once. I went to Captains Mast. I got busted, and I served my sentence. I didn't make that mistake again. Most leaders screw up. They learn from those mistakes and they move on. They become stronger leaders. The ones who get away with those mistakes do not become stronger leaders though. They become cowards who are in the good old boy network who are protected and showed favoritism, and THAT is a big problem.
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CMDCM Gene Treants
CMDCM Gene Treants
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Petty Officer Hicks, you are absolutely correct. Your personal life impacts your professional life and all of your peers, subordinates, and juniors know your business. The only way a leader can be really respected is to make sure he/she is beyond reproach in ALL aspects or his/her life.
Your PO1 came aboard with a bad reputation, but had a chance to start all over and establish himself as a good person at a new command. He blew it and anyone covering up impropriety also blows it.
Sometimes we can counsel, sometimes we need to take more steps that involve NJP or even Courts Martial, but leaders always lead, not hide.
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1SG Company First Sergeant
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Adultry is adultry, regardless if it is SM and civ or SM and SM.

Bottom line is that it is unprofessional and goes against good moral standards. That is the Army answer as well as what I was taught growing up.
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1SG Company First Sergeant
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So you wouldn't care if your 1SG was having an adulterous affair with your spouse?
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SSG Chris Cherry
SSG Chris Cherry
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If someone is incapable of showing enough personal restraint to avoid ruining someone else's life then my opinion of that person will reflect disgust and a lack of respect.

People tend not to take it as good news when they find out they're with someone who is unfaithful.
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CPT Zachary Brooks
CPT Zachary Brooks
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The way in which this conversation has been going makes me wonder if SFC Thomas is testing the waters for his own relationship. Thats how I perceive this at least, and isn't that the point? If its "wrong" or not is irrelevant, but the way other soldiers see you is.
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SFC Bde Mobility Nco
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CPT Zachary,

My relationship with my wife is very strong. Ive been married for 14 years. I dont have to "test" anything. If I wanted to cheat on my wife i wouldnt look to anyone for permission lol.

Maj Ballinger

I see marriage as a religious act. Marriage is a commitment to your spouse and GOD NOT to the Army. My opinion on adultery is that you will be judged by GOD when that time comes.
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SFC Desmond T,

Because when we are deployed or held as a POW abroad for a long period of time we don't want our spouses poached by our colleagues or their spouses.

Warmest Regards, Sandy
SSgt Forensic Meteorological Consultant
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Indeed.
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SSG Nathan Bryant
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Edited >1 y ago
A married Soldier having sex with another Soldier (not their spouse) is no different than a married Soldier having sex with a Civilian (not their spouse).

As of 2014, adultery is a criminal offense in 21 states. I'm not sure of your religious preference, but to Christians, adultery is considered immoral and a sin. "Thou shalt not commit adultery" is one of the ten commandments.

Army Values include Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Honor, and Integrity. I can't imagine why any of those would not carry over to the vows of a Soldier to their spouse upon marriage.

I believe the question was "why is adultery a crime in the military"? Without even giving a personal response . . . I am curious if all stated above is more than enough???
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SFC Bde Mobility Nco
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SSG Bryant,

Yes i agree and believe that adultery is immoral and a sin. Isnt adultery a "religious thing" and if so why did the army make it a crime?
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SFC William Swartz Jr
SFC William Swartz Jr
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More than likely because when the UCMJ was initially written and codified, Adultery was viewed or labeled as a criminal act by the public as well.
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SSG Nathan Bryant
SSG Nathan Bryant
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SFC THOMAS, adultery is indeed addressed in religion. But, regardless of spirituality, adultery is just wrong. Period. Not sure where the questions are going here . . .
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SSG Human Resources Specialist
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Pardon me for not catching up on all the comments as I may repeating something already posted.

Contrary to what you everyone may think. adultery is not based on religion, biblical or otherwise as far as the military is concerned. It has nothing to do with any religious version of what morality is and everything to do with maintaining good order and discipline.

We entrust our lives to one another, as referenced by some of the comments I've been able to catch up on. But if a Commander is sleeping with the wife of another officer or enlisted or vice-versa, that individuals decision making might be second guessed, certainly having an effect on the unit. we all know how rumors spread and that stuff hits facebook in a blink of an eye.

If you're willing to have an adulterous affair what else are you willing to do? Would you screw me over on my next eval, pass me over for an award, pass me over on great assignment? The adulterer damages the loyalty, respect, honor and integrity within the unit without regard to religious views.

Has adultery made the Army worse off because of it? Not hardly, maybe damaged credibility perhaps? Does the military have a moral obligation to enforce polcies/regulations prohibiting adultery, most certainly; there's families to think about.
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SGM Matthew Quick
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Maybe the REAL question should be:

"Why do Soldiers violate the UCMJ and commit adultery in the military...I mean, they KNOW right from wrong, correct?"
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SSG Brigade S3 Operations Ncoic
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SGM, reading some of the comments had me like WOW. But you asked the real question. Some people don't think of there actions while not in uniform. When in reality they have to abide by the UCMJ in and out of uniform. Soldiers aren't taught what really falls under UCMJ until it is too late.
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LTC Joseph Gross
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In the civilian world you don't have to worry about the good order and discipline of a unit. From that sense it is necessary that adultery be considered a crime. But also note that you never (rarely) see adultery prosecuted unless it is in conjunction with another crime (rape) or it has an actual impact on the unit.
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LTC Joseph Gross
LTC Joseph Gross
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I was never convinced of the assault charge against Sinclair. I also think the prosecuters felt the same way. The history of their relationship was too well documented in their ridiculous texts to allow her to claim victim status.
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LTC Joseph Gross
LTC Joseph Gross
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Did you really just compare a college educated adult entrusted with the safety of men and women in uniform to a sixteen year old girl? You might want to rethink how much credit you give to our "junior company grade officers". If a LT doesn't have the balls to tell a general when something is wrong, I don't want him or her in my Army. We call that moral courage and it used to be a requirement.
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SSG J1 Human Resources Nco
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Thank you for saying it MAJ! I saw that in the Army times and it has effected my decision to continue my career in this Army. Far too often as a PSG, I have to stand in front of troops and tell them of what may happen if they do not follow the rules, and yet, those who make the rules seem to be outside of the "good order and discipline" reach of the Army. Rules and regulations are not up for discussion. This is what we preach, though if you are Enlisted, you actually have to fear the courts.
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SSG Trevor S.
SSG Trevor S.
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I wish there was a conditional thumbs down. I admire the truth in what you are saying SSG Watson, I dislike the circumstances that make it the truth.
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