Posted on May 29, 2017
Why is the Chief, National Guard Bureau a four-star position while the Chief, Army Reserve is only a three-star position?
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The Chief of NGB was elevated to the Joint chiefs of staff in the last 10-15 years as the Guard had transformed from a reserve force to more of an operational force from all the deployments. Plus the Army Reserve is more of a component to the Active Army than the Guard. Plus there are 54 different National Guards, one for each state and territory, which are controlled by the governors when not on Title 10 orders. That was my understanding of it.
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SFC William Farrell
Thanks SFC (Join to see) I did not realize the Chief, NGB was on the Joint Staff. Just looked it up after you had mentioned it. Ive known two former Chiefs of the Army Reserve, General William Ward and General Harry Mott as they were both in units that I had belonged to and in researching them it made me wonder about the higher ranking NG Chief. What you said makes sense.
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Ha, I watched the hearings on CSPAN back when this happened. The Army represented by General Odierno wanted to keep the NG subordinate to it's chain of command and vehemently objected to the elevation of the NGB head to the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Their excuse for objecting (total bullshit, btw) just reinforced the belief in Congress the Army was never serious about integrating the National Guard into the larger Army missions and deployments and just motivated Congress to seal the deal. The Army's argument was basically one more Army General on the Joint Chiefs of Staff would only confuse everyone. Congress's argument that the NGB had to have a voice on the JCS because in the past the Army had made mistakes in misrepresenting or not presenting at all, the National Guard's position and that broader input was better than restricted input.
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1. Politics. 2. The state Adjutant Generals are authorized two-star positions and the chain of command works just a little better if the higher command has higher rank. It has only elevated to the three and four star ranks in the last twenty years or so. 3. Strength: The National Guard has about 340,000 soldiers. The Army Reserve has about 199,000 so the Chief of Army Reserve is authorized at a lower rank to compensate. 4. More politics.
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SGM (Join to see)
Actually, the Army Reserve has an 199K, but I do agree with you on the points 1,2, and 4.
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LTC Stephen B.
You left out the Air National Guard members... National Guard includes both Army and Air National Guard. CNGB is the chief of the only Joint Activity of the Department of Defense. He does not command the TAGs or the Guard, but he speaks on behalf of all National Guard Soldiers and Airmen at the DoD level.
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Because the Chief, NGB represents both the Army AND Air National Guard at the National level - NGB is a Joint Activity of the Department of Defense - OCAR only represents the USAR.
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SFC William Farrell
Most people have address this issue, it speaks to the Joint nature and depth of the National Guard force vs the Army Reserve. The National Guard has a dual hat role for the State or Territory when not on Title 10 orders that most Army Reserve units don't have to program missions or funding.
I started in the KYNG and will end my career in the Army Reserve and I have loved being in both of these organizations in my 30+ years. I agree with the CAR being subordinate Army, when many of the Army Reserve roles are Combat Service Support that plan rotations to support the enduring missions we have around the world.
Most people have address this issue, it speaks to the Joint nature and depth of the National Guard force vs the Army Reserve. The National Guard has a dual hat role for the State or Territory when not on Title 10 orders that most Army Reserve units don't have to program missions or funding.
I started in the KYNG and will end my career in the Army Reserve and I have loved being in both of these organizations in my 30+ years. I agree with the CAR being subordinate Army, when many of the Army Reserve roles are Combat Service Support that plan rotations to support the enduring missions we have around the world.
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I agree the Chief-NGB should be a four star. I don't agree that they're on the JCS. They already had representation on the JCS via the Army & Air Force CoS.
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SPC (Join to see)
I'm not well versed in the subject SSG but did they really? You think about the components and did the Army and Air Force CoS' truely represent the interests of the NG in addition to the AC. I figure that's why the NGB has a 4 Star anyway, politics.
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SSG (Join to see)
These days, they're not seen as the NG as in days of old. They are considered a valuable component of the respective service. Yes, the Army treats the ARNG as equals, so does the Air Force and they do go toe to toe with Congress to ensure the NG needs are being met. Especially these days when a good portion of the combat force is performed by the Guard.
Once funding is allocated, it is turned over to the individual state military department so they can take care of things. What happens after that is a whole other story.
I served in both the ARNG and the ANG. There was never any need that didn't go unfilled. We were trained just like the active component and could fill their roles without exception.
Once funding is allocated, it is turned over to the individual state military department so they can take care of things. What happens after that is a whole other story.
I served in both the ARNG and the ANG. There was never any need that didn't go unfilled. We were trained just like the active component and could fill their roles without exception.
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Honestly, neither one should be 4 star... SFC William Farrell ... The ARNG has more influence, so a few year back convinced us (them) he should be a 4 star.... Redunk in my perspective...
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the Chief, National Guard incorporates both Army and Air Force Reserve Guard. Huge amount of responsibility. It has transitioned over time, starting many decades ago as a COL position.
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There is no excuse. The CAR should be a four star command. The National Guard should be its own branch of service. The first Army Guard four star never deployed. He was a colonel or BG on 9/11 and dodged combat all the way to four stars. What a joke. Cronyism is the original sin of the Guard.
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The NGB has it's own, state driven mission independent of the Regular Army. The Reserves exist solely to support the RA. The ranks/positions reflect that.
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