Posted on Jan 17, 2020
Why is the U.S. Army the only branch that wears the full-color U.S. Flag?
155K
1.15K
214
226
226
0
I've consistently wondered why the U.S. Army is the only branch that wears the full-color U.S. Flag patch on the combat uniform. Marines don't wear anything on their combat uniform, but Navy and Air Force both wear the subdued U.S. Flag patch on theirs. AR 670-1 Ch 19-18 states "All soldiers will wear the full-color U.S. Flag embroidered insignia utility and organizational uniforms, unless deployed or in a field environment. Soldiers will wear the subdued tactical flag insignia while deployed or in a field environment." While I understand the regulation, it seems to me that wearing the subdued flag insignia would make more sense because it matches the uniform pattern. What are your thoughts? PFC (Join to see) SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Stephen F. CPL Dave Hoover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG (Join to see) Capt Dwayne Conyers CPT Jack Durish SGT Ben Keen CPT (Join to see)
American Flag
Uniforms
Soldiers
DA Pam 670-1
Army Regulations
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 89
13
13
0
Can’t speak to current day but these WWII flags are impressive. A lot more @ WWII museum in NOLA and the Airborne Museum in Sainte-Mère-Eglise.
https://www.paratrooper.be/articles/invasion-arm-flags/
https://www.paratrooper.be/articles/invasion-arm-flags/
Invasion arm flags - Paratrooper.be
Various types of these ‘invasion’ armflags were worn by paratroopers in the course of the war. They were worn specifically by paratroopers to identify them as American forces because paratroopers would be dropped behind enemey lines and risked to be mistaken for Axis soldiers by the main US assault forces approaching them over land. Flag patches continue to be worn by US forces of all branches of service today.
(13)
(0)
"I've consistently wondered why the U.S. Army is the only branch that wears the full-color U.S. Flag patch on the combat uniform"
We do not wear the full color flag on the prescribed uniform when deployed to a combat area
But because we wear that same uniform in the US and non US "Home Stations" when not at combat , thus its simply the prescribed uniform and those that set policy wanted the public to see a full color flag.
Oh and we are not the Marines, there is much we dont do as they do, some of it for the betterment of the force, some less so.
We do not wear the full color flag on the prescribed uniform when deployed to a combat area
But because we wear that same uniform in the US and non US "Home Stations" when not at combat , thus its simply the prescribed uniform and those that set policy wanted the public to see a full color flag.
Oh and we are not the Marines, there is much we dont do as they do, some of it for the betterment of the force, some less so.
(12)
(0)
Suspended Profile
I wore the full color flag in Iraq, but I was also in DCU’s and them fancy subdued jobs didn’t exist yet lol
SGM Erik Marquez
SFC Thomas Foreman - Well yes, they were worn full color earlier then that as well. I suppose I should have phrased my response to include "since the introduction of the subdued flag"
(2)
(0)
CW4 Keith Dolliver
I don't see any issue with wearing full color on the uniform in garrison, but I do wonder why they didn't go back to non-subdued officer rank on headgear in garrison when we transitioned back to patrol caps (like they did for BDU caps back in the day).
(3)
(0)
10
10
0
Full color flag are about the same as officers wearing shinny brass in combat !!!
(10)
(0)
CW3 Walter Goerner
I never wore any rank in a forward combat area, like the Marines, and I was Army. However, when I was at 29 Palms years ago, and Army, as a training officer and had Marine Warrant Officers in my classes, I was asked by my Marine Commander to wear the Marine CWO rank to keep the junior Marine students from mistaking my Army Warrant Officer rank from much higher Marine CWO rank and being saluted. All this was in Garrison, by the way. The Army wore subdued rank on our BDUs, but in Garrison on the base, the Marines wore bright brass rank on theirs. What complicated that was that the Army Warrant Officer bars are all base silver with the black squares designating the rank and the Marines and Navy Warrant Officer bars are gold for the first two ranks and then silver. My CW-2 bars which were silver, would be gold with the breaks for the Marines and at first glance appeared to be CWO-4 and I would be saluted by CWO's of the same rank. Oh I returned them out of respect. But I followed the "request" and wore the Marine gold CWO-2 bar. Also, Marine Gunnery CWO's wore only one CWO bar on the right collar and the bursting bomb insignia on the left, where commissioned Marine CWOs wore the CWO bars on both collars. The Army only wears the rank on the right and back then, the Warrant officer eagle on the right, so I was called "Gunner" too. Thus, I was "Gunner" Goerner at 29 Palms. What memories.
(2)
(0)
Sgt Dennis Doty
CW3 Walter Goerner - If you were referred to as Gunner by a Marine, take it as a compliment. It's a form of informal address which denotes respect and is almost a term of endearment to Marines, and it dates back to when Warrant Officers commanded the gun crews aboard Naval vessels.
(1)
(0)
9
9
0
I have often wondered why the Army uses Velcro on their uniforms. It looks tacky and there is no way you can keep sticks, leaves and sand from getting caught in the loops.
Get rid of the Velcro and adhere your patches permanently, like the Corps and Navy, and subdued colors are the ONLY ones that make sense.
Get rid of the Velcro and adhere your patches permanently, like the Corps and Navy, and subdued colors are the ONLY ones that make sense.
(9)
(0)
MAJ (Join to see)
Most of my colleagues have the Velcro removed and have their name, service and rank sewn on. Same for rank and name tape on the patrol cap. Unfortunately, we are not supposed to do that with our Flag and Unit patch, which invariably get snagged when donning and doffing rucks. My personal view is that everything should be sewn on and Velcro should be banned. It's noisy and degrades over time. Buttons made a come-back but there is still too much Velcro on the uniform. I don't care for it on my plate carrier either, but that's another issue. JMTC.
(1)
(0)
CPL (Join to see)
MAJ, I always sewed a stitch at each corner of the flag, name, service and rank patches. It works great and you don’t need to remove the Velcro. I’m also the guy that permanently snakes blousing elastics through my pants bottoms so I don’t have to tuck or blouse everyday.
(0)
(0)
9
9
0
You have sound merit behind your question, I tried not to question the higher ups on their logic when I was in, they have their reasons for what they do.
(9)
(0)
PO1 John F. Johnson
Besides, taking away the ability to affect a uniform change would deny mid to upper level O’s a medal!
(1)
(0)
8
8
0
This is a carryover from BDUs. In the 80, 90s and early 2000s on BDUs, you would have your patches permanently sewn on the sleeves. At the time, everyone except the Navy wore those BDUs, so did many partners in NATO and across the globe. When you deployed you removed the patches, moved them down and sewed a US Flag on your right shoulder to distinguish us from the other countries, primarily during NATO missions in the Gulf War, Bosnia, Kosova, and the Sinai. Because of the constant removing and reattaching of patches (which left little glue marks and stitch marks) the Army simply decided to make it part of the uniform in the early 2000s.
At the same time, realizing the need for a combat appropriate insignia, it also authorized the subdued flag. In the end it serves the same purpose of the unit insignia, to distinguish the US Army from in a "combined" element.
Because of the way other services operate, which is mostly unilaterally, and with organic elements, there is no need for distinguishing unit or country insignia. Although the Marines did wear unit insignia in WWI and WWII when they operated in a joint and combined environment.
As for other comments on velcro, it was because of the changing of patches during deployments and PCS. Special Forces had long ago modified its BDUs and removed the lower BDU pockets and attached them to the sleeves and put velcro on them to make use of subdued flags, call sign, and IR patches. The rest of the Army followed suit in the development of the ACUs.
At the same time, realizing the need for a combat appropriate insignia, it also authorized the subdued flag. In the end it serves the same purpose of the unit insignia, to distinguish the US Army from in a "combined" element.
Because of the way other services operate, which is mostly unilaterally, and with organic elements, there is no need for distinguishing unit or country insignia. Although the Marines did wear unit insignia in WWI and WWII when they operated in a joint and combined environment.
As for other comments on velcro, it was because of the changing of patches during deployments and PCS. Special Forces had long ago modified its BDUs and removed the lower BDU pockets and attached them to the sleeves and put velcro on them to make use of subdued flags, call sign, and IR patches. The rest of the Army followed suit in the development of the ACUs.
(8)
(0)
SFC (Join to see)
This lines up with my own experience as well. Thank you SGM for the correct answer.
Respectfully,
SFC Patrick D. Gray, Retired
Respectfully,
SFC Patrick D. Gray, Retired
(0)
(0)
8
8
0
I think that maybe all the Marines know what flag they represent and do not need to wear one to remember. Just my thought.
(8)
(0)
CPL (Join to see)
That’s ridiculous Sir, I always took immense pride when I looked over at that flag. It’s that very flag that made me enlist and serve something bigger then myself. It’s Pride!!
(0)
(0)
8
8
0
I wonder if the Marines are the only branch of the service that can land on foreign shores to protect American lives and property without declaring war, is the reason they don't wear an American Flag on their combat uniforms. We have Marine security detachments at our embassies around the world. That's the way it was when I was in the Marine Corp 59-63. If its different know let me know. Semper Fi.
(8)
(0)
MSgt Gerald Orvis
The Marines still don't wear any motivational patches, bells or whistles on their uniforms, be they the combat digital camouflage uniform or any other uniform. Don't need to - that Eagle, Globe and Anchor says all that needs to be said. As an Old Corps Marine, you may remember when a Marine's name had to be neatly stamped (no "railroad tracks"!) over the left breast pocket on the old sateen green utilities. Now the Corps makes Marines wear a "U.S. Marine Corps" tape sewn over the left breast pocket on utilities, with a name tape sewn over the right pocket. That upset a lot of Marines when it was ordered - every Marine in a unit should know who all the other Marines in it are - the only thing anybody else needs to see is the rank insignia. And the Eagle, Globe and Anchor embroidered on the cover or the left breast pocket should tell people that they are dealing with Marines. So far, thank goodness, the Corps has not ordered Marines to wear name tags on their greens or blues except for special duties - DIs, recruiters and so forth. As for Navy officers and sailors, they wear a subdued "original Navy jack" flag on their cammies - 13 stripes with a diagonal rattlesnake and the motto "Don't Tread on Me". Also name tapes and a "U.S. Navy" tape over their breast pockets.
(3)
(0)
Sgt Dan Catlin
I never liked the Sateens. They instituted the cammo utilities just before I got out, and I was glad to see them. We wore nothing on them but rank, and the USMC logo on the left breast pocket, Eagle, Globe and Anchor on the cover (which was still the Sateen cover). That's all we wanted or needed, except the boots. I hated those boots! I went through 2 pair most years. One year, when I thought I'd get by buying only 1 pair the whole sole on a new pair peeled back from toe to mid-arch on the right boot! I finished the afternoons training using several rolls of electrical tape. By contrast, the Jungle Boots I was issued (like everything we got there from 5 finger sales) as a young Lance-cool in Thailand lasted a couple of years after I got out. I wish they'd allowed us to wear Jungle Boots, Jump Boots, or even Roman sandals ... ANYTHING but those worthless boots they gave us!
(2)
(0)
7
7
0
I imagine it has something to do with certain senior officers and stock ownership.
(7)
(0)
LTC John Mohor
I like that “stock ownership” one...all the changes in uniforms the army has had just in the last 40 years even just look at post rip stock olive drab to wide collar, thin collar, summer weight, with/ without waist buttons BDUs Moving forward (guaranteed business)
(0)
(0)
6
6
0
Be thankful they have it going in the right direction, that hasn't always happened.
(6)
(0)
CW3 Walter Goerner
Just point out that the field is supposed to be on the left and ask them why it's that way when mounted on a wall. It's flag protocol and not something that came from someone's mind.
(0)
(0)
5
5
0
Because why not?
There is no reason to wear a subdued flag in peacetime garrison environment.
They attach with velcro, so they are easy enough to swap out with subdued flags for field or operational duty.
So why not? The Navy and the USAF aren’t impressing anyone with their camouflage flags in the mess hall on base.
The US flag is Red, White and Blue. There is no good reason to not proudly display those colors in a non-tactical environment.
There is no reason to wear a subdued flag in peacetime garrison environment.
They attach with velcro, so they are easy enough to swap out with subdued flags for field or operational duty.
So why not? The Navy and the USAF aren’t impressing anyone with their camouflage flags in the mess hall on base.
The US flag is Red, White and Blue. There is no good reason to not proudly display those colors in a non-tactical environment.
(5)
(0)
5
5
0
Dates to the 1990s during the Bosnia and Serbia operations. Those deployed he region of the former Yugoslavia wore the US Flag patch to distinguish them from other NATO forces as many wore a similar BDU style uniform. As Soldiers had to remove them upon return there was the issue of cost. These deployments the flags were not subdued. Then Afghanistan kicked off. Again, wearing flag patches became the norm, removed upon return. So it was decided to make it permanent about a year before the ACUs started to come out. Color when Garrison, subdued when deployed/field.
(5)
(0)
5
5
0
Wow, I’m jealous! As retired USAF, would have loved to have worn a fully colored US Flag! During my Service time, the only time we wore a subdued flag was when we were on deployment. Wore subdued on a deployment to Bosnia during Operation Joint Forge and 9/11. I chose military service after having been held hostage twice in childhood under military coupes in Peru and Libya. Wish I could have done 28 yrs wearing a fully colored US flag on my uniform! It becomes even more meaningful as our citizens refuse to respect the flag, trample on it or burn it! I learned early in life and before military service that freedom isn’t free and often comes at a price and not everyone or every country has freedom! You US Army folks are really, really, really lucky to wear a colored US flag!!!
(5)
(0)
Lt Col Leslie Bryant
Meant to say we never wore a flag on our USAF uniform unless we were deployed and it was subdued on deployment overseas!
(1)
(0)
5
5
0
When I was in Vietnam our unit patch( First Air Cav on helicopter, was painted the correct color so the enemy knew who was giving them hell. I see the full colored flag as showing pride.
(5)
(0)
(0)
(0)
Sgt Dennis Doty
SP5 Lynn Adams - And we appreciated the assist. Marines were never intended to garrison fortifications. Our role is offensive ops at the pointy end of the spear.
(0)
(0)
4
4
0
Showing the US Flag is part of the mission of the US Army when deployed or at home. Yes, wear the subdued version when practical, STARS AND STRIPES FOREVER! God Bless America and Troops everywhere!!!
(4)
(0)
4
4
0
4
4
0
I certainly concur with you my friend SSG(P) (Join to see) that instead of a full color patch on "combat uniforms " "it seems to me that wearing the subdued flag insignia would make more sense because it matches the uniform pattern."
(4)
(0)
3
3
0
Why not wear full color with pride? Wish we could have in the 60's. Foreign countries did and still do. Wear it, you earned it, you are a 4%er
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
why does it matter. I'm no longer in the army but fly my flag each day, proud and in full color
(3)
(0)
3
3
0
It kind of begs the question, "If we wear a full color Flag, why can't we have full color unit patches in garrison?"
While assigned to Korea, even when I was assigned to the Brigade TOC, I had to carry both full-color and subdued American Flags, because when my unit went to the range or the field, I had to, first of all know when that happened, and then switch out my full color Flags for subdued Flags. When my unit came back, I had to switch out once again. Silliness.
While assigned to Korea, even when I was assigned to the Brigade TOC, I had to carry both full-color and subdued American Flags, because when my unit went to the range or the field, I had to, first of all know when that happened, and then switch out my full color Flags for subdued Flags. When my unit came back, I had to switch out once again. Silliness.
(3)
(0)
Read This Next
-
Ask questionGet expert advice and
tips for your questions. -
Post updatePost pictures, personal updates, plans, or anything you like!
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google