Posted on Jan 17, 2020
Why is the U.S. Army the only branch that wears the full-color U.S. Flag?
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I've consistently wondered why the U.S. Army is the only branch that wears the full-color U.S. Flag patch on the combat uniform. Marines don't wear anything on their combat uniform, but Navy and Air Force both wear the subdued U.S. Flag patch on theirs. AR 670-1 Ch 19-18 states "All soldiers will wear the full-color U.S. Flag embroidered insignia utility and organizational uniforms, unless deployed or in a field environment. Soldiers will wear the subdued tactical flag insignia while deployed or in a field environment." While I understand the regulation, it seems to me that wearing the subdued flag insignia would make more sense because it matches the uniform pattern. What are your thoughts? PFC (Join to see) SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL SFC James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4" LTC Stephen F. CPL Dave Hoover SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth SSG (Join to see) Capt Dwayne Conyers CPT Jack Durish SGT Ben Keen CPT (Join to see)
American Flag
Uniforms
Soldiers
DA Pam 670-1
Army Regulations
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 89
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Can’t speak to current day but these WWII flags are impressive. A lot more @ WWII museum in NOLA and the Airborne Museum in Sainte-Mère-Eglise.
https://www.paratrooper.be/articles/invasion-arm-flags/
https://www.paratrooper.be/articles/invasion-arm-flags/
Invasion arm flags - Paratrooper.be
Various types of these ‘invasion’ armflags were worn by paratroopers in the course of the war. They were worn specifically by paratroopers to identify them as American forces because paratroopers would be dropped behind enemey lines and risked to be mistaken for Axis soldiers by the main US assault forces approaching them over land. Flag patches continue to be worn by US forces of all branches of service today.
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"I've consistently wondered why the U.S. Army is the only branch that wears the full-color U.S. Flag patch on the combat uniform"
We do not wear the full color flag on the prescribed uniform when deployed to a combat area
But because we wear that same uniform in the US and non US "Home Stations" when not at combat , thus its simply the prescribed uniform and those that set policy wanted the public to see a full color flag.
Oh and we are not the Marines, there is much we dont do as they do, some of it for the betterment of the force, some less so.
We do not wear the full color flag on the prescribed uniform when deployed to a combat area
But because we wear that same uniform in the US and non US "Home Stations" when not at combat , thus its simply the prescribed uniform and those that set policy wanted the public to see a full color flag.
Oh and we are not the Marines, there is much we dont do as they do, some of it for the betterment of the force, some less so.
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Suspended Profile
I wore the full color flag in Iraq, but I was also in DCU’s and them fancy subdued jobs didn’t exist yet lol
SGM Erik Marquez
SFC Thomas Foreman - Well yes, they were worn full color earlier then that as well. I suppose I should have phrased my response to include "since the introduction of the subdued flag"
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CW4 Keith Dolliver
I don't see any issue with wearing full color on the uniform in garrison, but I do wonder why they didn't go back to non-subdued officer rank on headgear in garrison when we transitioned back to patrol caps (like they did for BDU caps back in the day).
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Full color flag are about the same as officers wearing shinny brass in combat !!!
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CW3 Walter Goerner
I never wore any rank in a forward combat area, like the Marines, and I was Army. However, when I was at 29 Palms years ago, and Army, as a training officer and had Marine Warrant Officers in my classes, I was asked by my Marine Commander to wear the Marine CWO rank to keep the junior Marine students from mistaking my Army Warrant Officer rank from much higher Marine CWO rank and being saluted. All this was in Garrison, by the way. The Army wore subdued rank on our BDUs, but in Garrison on the base, the Marines wore bright brass rank on theirs. What complicated that was that the Army Warrant Officer bars are all base silver with the black squares designating the rank and the Marines and Navy Warrant Officer bars are gold for the first two ranks and then silver. My CW-2 bars which were silver, would be gold with the breaks for the Marines and at first glance appeared to be CWO-4 and I would be saluted by CWO's of the same rank. Oh I returned them out of respect. But I followed the "request" and wore the Marine gold CWO-2 bar. Also, Marine Gunnery CWO's wore only one CWO bar on the right collar and the bursting bomb insignia on the left, where commissioned Marine CWOs wore the CWO bars on both collars. The Army only wears the rank on the right and back then, the Warrant officer eagle on the right, so I was called "Gunner" too. Thus, I was "Gunner" Goerner at 29 Palms. What memories.
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Sgt Dennis Doty
CW3 Walter Goerner - If you were referred to as Gunner by a Marine, take it as a compliment. It's a form of informal address which denotes respect and is almost a term of endearment to Marines, and it dates back to when Warrant Officers commanded the gun crews aboard Naval vessels.
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I have often wondered why the Army uses Velcro on their uniforms. It looks tacky and there is no way you can keep sticks, leaves and sand from getting caught in the loops.
Get rid of the Velcro and adhere your patches permanently, like the Corps and Navy, and subdued colors are the ONLY ones that make sense.
Get rid of the Velcro and adhere your patches permanently, like the Corps and Navy, and subdued colors are the ONLY ones that make sense.
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MAJ (Join to see)
Most of my colleagues have the Velcro removed and have their name, service and rank sewn on. Same for rank and name tape on the patrol cap. Unfortunately, we are not supposed to do that with our Flag and Unit patch, which invariably get snagged when donning and doffing rucks. My personal view is that everything should be sewn on and Velcro should be banned. It's noisy and degrades over time. Buttons made a come-back but there is still too much Velcro on the uniform. I don't care for it on my plate carrier either, but that's another issue. JMTC.
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CPL (Join to see)
MAJ, I always sewed a stitch at each corner of the flag, name, service and rank patches. It works great and you don’t need to remove the Velcro. I’m also the guy that permanently snakes blousing elastics through my pants bottoms so I don’t have to tuck or blouse everyday.
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You have sound merit behind your question, I tried not to question the higher ups on their logic when I was in, they have their reasons for what they do.
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PO1 John F. Johnson
Besides, taking away the ability to affect a uniform change would deny mid to upper level O’s a medal!
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This is a carryover from BDUs. In the 80, 90s and early 2000s on BDUs, you would have your patches permanently sewn on the sleeves. At the time, everyone except the Navy wore those BDUs, so did many partners in NATO and across the globe. When you deployed you removed the patches, moved them down and sewed a US Flag on your right shoulder to distinguish us from the other countries, primarily during NATO missions in the Gulf War, Bosnia, Kosova, and the Sinai. Because of the constant removing and reattaching of patches (which left little glue marks and stitch marks) the Army simply decided to make it part of the uniform in the early 2000s.
At the same time, realizing the need for a combat appropriate insignia, it also authorized the subdued flag. In the end it serves the same purpose of the unit insignia, to distinguish the US Army from in a "combined" element.
Because of the way other services operate, which is mostly unilaterally, and with organic elements, there is no need for distinguishing unit or country insignia. Although the Marines did wear unit insignia in WWI and WWII when they operated in a joint and combined environment.
As for other comments on velcro, it was because of the changing of patches during deployments and PCS. Special Forces had long ago modified its BDUs and removed the lower BDU pockets and attached them to the sleeves and put velcro on them to make use of subdued flags, call sign, and IR patches. The rest of the Army followed suit in the development of the ACUs.
At the same time, realizing the need for a combat appropriate insignia, it also authorized the subdued flag. In the end it serves the same purpose of the unit insignia, to distinguish the US Army from in a "combined" element.
Because of the way other services operate, which is mostly unilaterally, and with organic elements, there is no need for distinguishing unit or country insignia. Although the Marines did wear unit insignia in WWI and WWII when they operated in a joint and combined environment.
As for other comments on velcro, it was because of the changing of patches during deployments and PCS. Special Forces had long ago modified its BDUs and removed the lower BDU pockets and attached them to the sleeves and put velcro on them to make use of subdued flags, call sign, and IR patches. The rest of the Army followed suit in the development of the ACUs.
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SFC (Join to see)
This lines up with my own experience as well. Thank you SGM for the correct answer.
Respectfully,
SFC Patrick D. Gray, Retired
Respectfully,
SFC Patrick D. Gray, Retired
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I think that maybe all the Marines know what flag they represent and do not need to wear one to remember. Just my thought.
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CPL (Join to see)
That’s ridiculous Sir, I always took immense pride when I looked over at that flag. It’s that very flag that made me enlist and serve something bigger then myself. It’s Pride!!
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I wonder if the Marines are the only branch of the service that can land on foreign shores to protect American lives and property without declaring war, is the reason they don't wear an American Flag on their combat uniforms. We have Marine security detachments at our embassies around the world. That's the way it was when I was in the Marine Corp 59-63. If its different know let me know. Semper Fi.
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MSgt Gerald Orvis
The Marines still don't wear any motivational patches, bells or whistles on their uniforms, be they the combat digital camouflage uniform or any other uniform. Don't need to - that Eagle, Globe and Anchor says all that needs to be said. As an Old Corps Marine, you may remember when a Marine's name had to be neatly stamped (no "railroad tracks"!) over the left breast pocket on the old sateen green utilities. Now the Corps makes Marines wear a "U.S. Marine Corps" tape sewn over the left breast pocket on utilities, with a name tape sewn over the right pocket. That upset a lot of Marines when it was ordered - every Marine in a unit should know who all the other Marines in it are - the only thing anybody else needs to see is the rank insignia. And the Eagle, Globe and Anchor embroidered on the cover or the left breast pocket should tell people that they are dealing with Marines. So far, thank goodness, the Corps has not ordered Marines to wear name tags on their greens or blues except for special duties - DIs, recruiters and so forth. As for Navy officers and sailors, they wear a subdued "original Navy jack" flag on their cammies - 13 stripes with a diagonal rattlesnake and the motto "Don't Tread on Me". Also name tapes and a "U.S. Navy" tape over their breast pockets.
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Sgt Dan Catlin
I never liked the Sateens. They instituted the cammo utilities just before I got out, and I was glad to see them. We wore nothing on them but rank, and the USMC logo on the left breast pocket, Eagle, Globe and Anchor on the cover (which was still the Sateen cover). That's all we wanted or needed, except the boots. I hated those boots! I went through 2 pair most years. One year, when I thought I'd get by buying only 1 pair the whole sole on a new pair peeled back from toe to mid-arch on the right boot! I finished the afternoons training using several rolls of electrical tape. By contrast, the Jungle Boots I was issued (like everything we got there from 5 finger sales) as a young Lance-cool in Thailand lasted a couple of years after I got out. I wish they'd allowed us to wear Jungle Boots, Jump Boots, or even Roman sandals ... ANYTHING but those worthless boots they gave us!
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I imagine it has something to do with certain senior officers and stock ownership.
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LTC John Mohor
I like that “stock ownership” one...all the changes in uniforms the army has had just in the last 40 years even just look at post rip stock olive drab to wide collar, thin collar, summer weight, with/ without waist buttons BDUs Moving forward (guaranteed business)
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Be thankful they have it going in the right direction, that hasn't always happened.
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CW3 Walter Goerner
Just point out that the field is supposed to be on the left and ask them why it's that way when mounted on a wall. It's flag protocol and not something that came from someone's mind.
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