Posted on Sep 5, 2021
Will Senior Leaders Who Refuse COVID Vaccination Receive Court Martial?
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Now that a FDA approved COVID vaccine is available, the military meets the requirements set by Doe v Rumsfeld and can lawfully order Servicemembers to receive the vaccination. Because the act of COVID vaccination is so politically charged, there will almost certainly be senior grades who refuse it. Those who have their hands on the pulse of the current command climate: will the military make examples of senior grade NCOs and Officers who refuse to get vaccinated?
The military orders I have read in the press seem to indicate that those who refuse the vaccine will be dealt with administratively. However, I would think that the refusal by a commander would be against the good order of the military and set a bad example. A well publicized court martial would certainly send a message to those seeking a pension.
The military orders I have read in the press seem to indicate that those who refuse the vaccine will be dealt with administratively. However, I would think that the refusal by a commander would be against the good order of the military and set a bad example. A well publicized court martial would certainly send a message to those seeking a pension.
Health
Discipline
Coronavirus COVID19
Retirement
Court Martial
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 21
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It's up to the branch and the commander. Some people received court martial for refusing Anthrax vaccines, most were just separated.
I don't think it's likely that any Senior Leader will receive a court martial. More likely they will receive a General Reprimand, be removed from leadership positions and separated that way with an honorable discharge and their retirement
I don't think it's likely that any Senior Leader will receive a court martial. More likely they will receive a General Reprimand, be removed from leadership positions and separated that way with an honorable discharge and their retirement
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LTC Lars Staack
I suspect you are right. At a minimum, I think it likely that those without vaccinations will be considered non-deployable. Most SMs non-deployable are not retained.
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You make an interesting point about good order and discipline. How did we ever get to a place where an inoculation became so political?
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SGT (Join to see)
1SG Dennis Hicks - We have the vaccine thanks to President Trump and the urgency to find a vaccine. He and his family have been vaccinated since January, and he had COVID. When at a rally in Alabama he urged people to get vaccinated, he was booed. It behooves us to follow real scientific information and not what comes off of media. Tucker Carlson is one such a boob. He spreads misinformation daily, yet he himself is vaccinated. How do I know? You can't work.at FoxNews without a vaccine. It is mandated. Be careful, you may catch BDS. Lol.
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1SG Dennis Hicks
SGT (Join to see) - My personal choice is to avoid yet another GOVT vaccination for many reasons, mostly due to the way they force folks to get it, as for BDS the nice thing about it is you get free cream and forget what you just said anyway. :)
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MSG Harvey Kane
Enlisted got shots, went to okinawa got shots, tdy all over se asia and east asia got shots. I go shots for shots if I complained i was told to write my congresssman!
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Should be a choice. Address the prevention with the treatment- not a vax that needs boosters.
Just my humble opinion.
Just my humble opinion.
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SFC (Join to see)
PO1 Nick Lingenfelter - What "facts on the ground" show that the vaccine is "neither safe or effective?" Also nice that you use a CNN article as a source when you want it to justify YOUR opinion but discount CNN every other time.
The vaccines weren't rushed. Again I'll take experts that actually work with vaccines over you.
The vaccines weren't rushed. Again I'll take experts that actually work with vaccines over you.
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MSG Harvey Kane
The minute you enlist your body belongs to Uncle Sam! I think you had best read your oath!
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SPC Dustin Hall
SGM (Join to see) - And you think the Anthrax one was before they gave it to the soldiers back in the mid 90's? It does not matter anyways. You are Property of the US Government. Failure to comply with the order from the DoD is a direct violation of your Oath and a Disobeyment of a Superior Officer. At least they are offering a Honorable Discharge.
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There's no need for guesses or opinions.
AR 600-20, 5-4 (2) specifically outlines what Commanders must do when Soldiers refuse mandatory vaccinations.
Considering that's the topic, everyone should probably read it.
AR 600-20, 5-4 (2) specifically outlines what Commanders must do when Soldiers refuse mandatory vaccinations.
Considering that's the topic, everyone should probably read it.
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LTC Lars Staack
That speaks well for your command. But, there are limits. You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think.
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Capt Gregory Prickett
SFC Michael Hasbun & LTC Lars Staack - I will point out that AR 600-20 only applies to the Army.
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SFC (Join to see)
Capt Gregory Prickett - I may be wrong. While the cited reference was AR, the vaccination mandate came from SecDef. You know that cabinet member that oversees ALL military branches?
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Wake up people!!! You are NOT Court Martialed for not getting a Vaccination, YOU ARE Court Martialed for not following a direct order.
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I remember having to take the Japanese Encephalitis vaccine before it was FDA approved. Anthrax too. Refusal to comply with a legal order is a UCMJ offense. Typical outcome is an administrative separation with whatever label comes with any specific extracurriculars you toss into it. In the Grand Scheme, the military most always looks for the path of least resistance to wash its hands of a problem. In the commercial sector, the requirement is a term and condition of employment. Many times it becomes a topic for bargaining under the relevant CBA. Even then, management can require it. Suits in this area would relate to management not dealing with the union. Not liking the result would be tough getting a judge to stay the requirement. This stuff isn't new.
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Doe v Rumsfeld is not controlling law, it is a decision by a trial court. Only appellate court decisions are binding law.
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LTC Lars Staack
So what case law, if any, regarding Service Member refusal to receive Anthrax vaccination, is applicable today?
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Capt Gregory Prickett
"The fundamental necessity for obedience, and the consequent necessity for imposition of discipline, may render permissible within the military that which would be constitutionally impermissible outside it." Parker v. Levy, 417 U.S. 733, 758 (1974) (relating to the First Amendment, but also applicable here); see also United States v. Rose, 64 M.J. 56 (C.A.A.F., 2006) (an order from an officer to take anthrax vaccine is a valid order).
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1SG (Join to see)
LCpl Benji Smith Your statement is patently false. Please provide a citation for your statement.
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1SG (Join to see)
LCpl Benji Smith that the vaccine is untested and unproven. Please provide peer reviewed scientific studies that back your claim.
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1SG (Join to see)
LCpl Benji Smith https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
95% effective. TESTED.
The overwhelming majority of ICU patients and deaths are among the UNVACCINATED.
95% effective. TESTED.
The overwhelming majority of ICU patients and deaths are among the UNVACCINATED.
Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine | NEJM
Original Article from The New England Journal of Medicine — Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine
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SGT (Join to see)
Dr. Mercola seems like a reliable source.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/24/technology/joseph-mercola-coronavirus-misinformation-online.html
The Most Influential Spreader of Coronavirus Misinformation Online
Researchers and regulators say Joseph Mercola, an osteopathic physician, creates and profits from misleading claims about Covid-19 vaccines.
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You pose an extremely good question LTC Lars Staack! I know I had no choices when it came to what ‘shots’ the Army gave me.
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LTC Lars Staack
You are certainly right. Old timers remember the Anthrax shots for Dessert Shield. They were controversial and caused a lot of apprehension on top of prepping for mob. Most Soldiers did their duty and didn't experience long-term side effects.
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SPC Nancy Greene
LTC Lars Staack I’m a Cold War Veteran and the second set of shots I was given before my PCS to Germany made me sick! LTC Lars Staack
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I just use common sense and got vaccinated not just for me, but for my family. We have come a long way scientifically to argue that a vaccine cannot be tested in such a short period. Got mine last January and second dose in February. Not a single side effect. Many, many people are hung up on conspiracies and think we are gonna die sooner than expected or grow antlers. With every new vaccination, there has always been fear mongering. I see it as the government simply has debt that needs to be paid back to Big Pharma and nothing more when it comes to the rush for people getting the shot. Now that Pfizer has been officially approved, there is no doubt in my mind, that if a service member refuses to receive it unless they have a TRUE reason, there will be consequences.
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