Posted on May 4, 2015
Woman to become NY firefighter despite failing crucial fitness test! What are your thoughts?
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What do you think of the lowered standards for this one women, but not all fire fighters, and not all women?
Article text and link below.
The FDNY for the first time in its history will allow someone who failed its crucial physical fitness test to join the Bravest.
Rebecca Wax, 33, is set to graduate Tuesday from the Fire Academy without passing the Functional Skills Training test, a grueling obstacle course of job-related tasks performed in full gear with a limited air supply, an insider has revealed.
“They’re going to allow the first person to graduate without passing because this administration has lowered the standard,” said the insider, who is familiar with the training.
Upon graduation, Wax would be assigned to a firehouse and tasked with the full duties of a firefighter.
Some FDNY members are angry.
“We’re being asked to go into a fire with someone who isn’t 100 percent qualified,” the source said. “Our job is a team effort. If there’s a weak link in the chain, either civilians or our members can die.”
Wax’s graduation comes as the city celebrates the FDNY’s 150th anniversary and as the department is under pressure by the de Blasio administration to hire more women.
Only 44 of the FDNY’s 10,500 firefighters are female.
While Wax fell short, two other female probies in the graduating class passed the FST with flying colors.
“They’re kicking butt. They’re doing better than 50 percent of the class,” the insider said. “When they get assigned to a firehouse, they’ll be welcomed with open arms because they’ve done what everyone else has gone through.”
Other female firefighters aren’t pleased about Wax’s treatment, either.
“A lot of the girls in the field are pissed because they feel like they’re getting lumped into the same category of a female getting special treatment and not meeting the same standards as the males,” the insider added. “It devalues what the women in the field have accomplished.”
“We’re being asked to go into a fire with someone who isn’t 100 percent qualified. Our job is a team effort. If there’s a weak link in the chain, either civilians or our members can die.”
In the FST exam, probies must breathe through a mask attached to an air tank while carrying up to 50 pounds of gear.
They must climb six flights of stairs, stretch hose lines, raise ladders, perform tasks that simulate breaking doors and pulling down ceilings, and drag dummies through tunnels with no visibility.
They must complete the course in 17 minutes, 50 seconds or less.
Despite many attempts over the Fire Academy’s 18-week training course, Wax completed the test just once — but it took her more than 22 minutes, the source said.
In numerous tries, Wax struggled and was too slow. While fit probies finish with air left in their tanks, she had to stop when hers ran out, the source added.
“She’s in the best shape of her life, and it’s still not good enough,” he said.
Under the FDNY’s new hiring policy, probies must earn at least 75 percent on the combined requirements of academics, hands-on skills and physical fitness.
Wax had a high grade-point average on her academics, which officials determined offset her FST deficiency, the insider said.
Last December, Fire Commissioner Daniel Nigro told a City Council hearing on the FDNY’s efforts to recruit women that he had changed FST requirements to lower obstacles.
“We still grade the people. You can still fail it if you go beyond the time, but you’re not automatically failed from the program,” he said.
He also indicated he wanted to act before a possible sex discrimination lawsuit after the city paid $98 million to settle a lawsuit that accused the FDNY of discriminating against minorities.
“We must no longer wait for a judge’s ruling to tell us what fairness means,” Nigro said.
United Women Firefighters, an organization of FDNY women, objects to the FST test, contending it unfairly bars females.
The FST requires a much higher level of fitness than the Candidate Physical Ability Test, which applicants must pass to enter the academy.
Experts say the FST mirrors the demands of the job, training would-be firefighters to work in stressful environments while conserving their air supply.
Wax had previously received another break to join the FDNY after pleading in June 2011 for a City Council bill that raised the age limit from 29 to 35 for applicants like her who first took the entrance exam in 2007. A hiring freeze imposed by federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis in the discrimination suit put them in limbo.
“I want nothing more than to be a New York City firefighter,” Wax, then 29, had testified at a hearing.
Wax has worked as a civilian FDNY employee since 2009, lately as a community coordinator, making $52,338 last year.
Reached outside her Upper East Side apartment Friday, she would not speak to a reporter.
Nigro, questioned by The Post during an FDNY anniversary celebration at a Midtown firehouse Saturday, refused to comment on Wax’s fitness failure.
“Every one of our 305 probies have passed and will be graduating Tuesday,” he said. “She has met the requirements.”
The probationary class started with 320 recruits, meaning 15 dropped out or must retake the course.
http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/
Article text and link below.
The FDNY for the first time in its history will allow someone who failed its crucial physical fitness test to join the Bravest.
Rebecca Wax, 33, is set to graduate Tuesday from the Fire Academy without passing the Functional Skills Training test, a grueling obstacle course of job-related tasks performed in full gear with a limited air supply, an insider has revealed.
“They’re going to allow the first person to graduate without passing because this administration has lowered the standard,” said the insider, who is familiar with the training.
Upon graduation, Wax would be assigned to a firehouse and tasked with the full duties of a firefighter.
Some FDNY members are angry.
“We’re being asked to go into a fire with someone who isn’t 100 percent qualified,” the source said. “Our job is a team effort. If there’s a weak link in the chain, either civilians or our members can die.”
Wax’s graduation comes as the city celebrates the FDNY’s 150th anniversary and as the department is under pressure by the de Blasio administration to hire more women.
Only 44 of the FDNY’s 10,500 firefighters are female.
While Wax fell short, two other female probies in the graduating class passed the FST with flying colors.
“They’re kicking butt. They’re doing better than 50 percent of the class,” the insider said. “When they get assigned to a firehouse, they’ll be welcomed with open arms because they’ve done what everyone else has gone through.”
Other female firefighters aren’t pleased about Wax’s treatment, either.
“A lot of the girls in the field are pissed because they feel like they’re getting lumped into the same category of a female getting special treatment and not meeting the same standards as the males,” the insider added. “It devalues what the women in the field have accomplished.”
“We’re being asked to go into a fire with someone who isn’t 100 percent qualified. Our job is a team effort. If there’s a weak link in the chain, either civilians or our members can die.”
In the FST exam, probies must breathe through a mask attached to an air tank while carrying up to 50 pounds of gear.
They must climb six flights of stairs, stretch hose lines, raise ladders, perform tasks that simulate breaking doors and pulling down ceilings, and drag dummies through tunnels with no visibility.
They must complete the course in 17 minutes, 50 seconds or less.
Despite many attempts over the Fire Academy’s 18-week training course, Wax completed the test just once — but it took her more than 22 minutes, the source said.
In numerous tries, Wax struggled and was too slow. While fit probies finish with air left in their tanks, she had to stop when hers ran out, the source added.
“She’s in the best shape of her life, and it’s still not good enough,” he said.
Under the FDNY’s new hiring policy, probies must earn at least 75 percent on the combined requirements of academics, hands-on skills and physical fitness.
Wax had a high grade-point average on her academics, which officials determined offset her FST deficiency, the insider said.
Last December, Fire Commissioner Daniel Nigro told a City Council hearing on the FDNY’s efforts to recruit women that he had changed FST requirements to lower obstacles.
“We still grade the people. You can still fail it if you go beyond the time, but you’re not automatically failed from the program,” he said.
He also indicated he wanted to act before a possible sex discrimination lawsuit after the city paid $98 million to settle a lawsuit that accused the FDNY of discriminating against minorities.
“We must no longer wait for a judge’s ruling to tell us what fairness means,” Nigro said.
United Women Firefighters, an organization of FDNY women, objects to the FST test, contending it unfairly bars females.
The FST requires a much higher level of fitness than the Candidate Physical Ability Test, which applicants must pass to enter the academy.
Experts say the FST mirrors the demands of the job, training would-be firefighters to work in stressful environments while conserving their air supply.
Wax had previously received another break to join the FDNY after pleading in June 2011 for a City Council bill that raised the age limit from 29 to 35 for applicants like her who first took the entrance exam in 2007. A hiring freeze imposed by federal Judge Nicholas Garaufis in the discrimination suit put them in limbo.
“I want nothing more than to be a New York City firefighter,” Wax, then 29, had testified at a hearing.
Wax has worked as a civilian FDNY employee since 2009, lately as a community coordinator, making $52,338 last year.
Reached outside her Upper East Side apartment Friday, she would not speak to a reporter.
Nigro, questioned by The Post during an FDNY anniversary celebration at a Midtown firehouse Saturday, refused to comment on Wax’s fitness failure.
“Every one of our 305 probies have passed and will be graduating Tuesday,” he said. “She has met the requirements.”
The probationary class started with 320 recruits, meaning 15 dropped out or must retake the course.
http://nypost.com/2015/05/03/woman-to-become-ny-firefighter-despite-failing-crucial-fitness-test/
Women in the Military
Gender
Standards
Equality
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 27
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
TSgt Hunter Logan that's neither here nor there. The politicians jobs were to protect the purse of the city in addition to everything else. They determined that was more important than the test. I'm not calling it right/wrong, just pointing out that it is an aspect of their job.
Every lawsuit that happens (not necessarily by this person) means more money just wasted. How do you combat that? You make legislative concessions to reduce the likelihood of the city being sued, because if you die in a fire they can't sue you. But if they don't hire you, they can.
Every lawsuit that happens (not necessarily by this person) means more money just wasted. How do you combat that? You make legislative concessions to reduce the likelihood of the city being sued, because if you die in a fire they can't sue you. But if they don't hire you, they can.
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CPT Zachary Brooks
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
So what you are saying is: The problem with under qualified firefighters will be lawyers.
Why are minorities suing? Are the standards supposedly harder for them in particular? How are the standards harder for minorities? Are they trying to say they are inferior to the majority?
So what you are saying is: The problem with under qualified firefighters will be lawyers.
Why are minorities suing? Are the standards supposedly harder for them in particular? How are the standards harder for minorities? Are they trying to say they are inferior to the majority?
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Bingo! (Litigious!)
Why are people suing? Because it's easy to sue. You don't have to be right, you just have to show that you "could win" or that you "might have a case" based on "statistical data" (representation).
As an example. Humans!
The human population is roughly 50% Male, 50% female! Therefore the military population should be 50% Male, 50% Female! wait... it isn't... it's 85/15.... The military must discriminate against women!!!! Sue them!!! Nevermind, all volunteer force. Hmmm.. let's try another one.
Representation of persons of color at higher ranks... Why aren't X minorities equally represented at General ranks? Simple answer, X minorities don't choose Combat Arms branches.
Now imagine using that same kind of statistical data in a civilian environment :p where all you need is a decent lawyer, and the ability to "cut a deal" rather than actually go to court. It's cheaper to settle, and no actual proof is required. Just perception.
Why are people suing? Because it's easy to sue. You don't have to be right, you just have to show that you "could win" or that you "might have a case" based on "statistical data" (representation).
As an example. Humans!
The human population is roughly 50% Male, 50% female! Therefore the military population should be 50% Male, 50% Female! wait... it isn't... it's 85/15.... The military must discriminate against women!!!! Sue them!!! Nevermind, all volunteer force. Hmmm.. let's try another one.
Representation of persons of color at higher ranks... Why aren't X minorities equally represented at General ranks? Simple answer, X minorities don't choose Combat Arms branches.
Now imagine using that same kind of statistical data in a civilian environment :p where all you need is a decent lawyer, and the ability to "cut a deal" rather than actually go to court. It's cheaper to settle, and no actual proof is required. Just perception.
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SPC William Weedman
When I went through combat medic school (a long time ago) there were certain tests along the way that were Go/NoGo tests. The first few weeks of school was basic medical knowledge, terminology, and procedures. After that we had a Go/NoGo test. This was because about 1/2 of our class were going into other medical MOS and needed "the basics" before getting the more technical aspects of their job. If they were a NoGo , they were recycled into the next class. The same thing happened with medics that failed that test, they too were recycled back to the next class. If they were a NoGo a second time, they were sent to the career counselor to find another job. It seemes the standards were altered to make sure she passed; which would be fine if she were doing a job that was truly life & death. This is exactly why the Spec Ops guys refuse to lower their standards
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WO1 (Join to see)
I'm not surprised by anything that comes out of New York or California these days.
In the article it states "She has a high enough overall grade that she passed even though she failed the PFT."
They should treat it like the military does. A failure in one area is an overall failure, regardless of how well you do in all other areas.
I'm not surprised by anything that comes out of New York or California these days.
In the article it states "She has a high enough overall grade that she passed even though she failed the PFT."
They should treat it like the military does. A failure in one area is an overall failure, regardless of how well you do in all other areas.
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I dont agree with her not passing everything that needs to be passed, I'm all for letting women give it a go for anything, but they have to pass the same standards as men as there are men who can't even pass it sometimes.
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When I worked with the fire department I saw this occur for purposes of "minority or gender integration". It always made me uneasy. If I burned to death because my partner was too weak to pull me from the fire, I and my family would not feel better knowing that I needlessly died in order to be more politically correct. I am old school: meet the criteria or move on.
The problem we wrestle with in gender or racial ... etc. "quotas" is not a gender or racial one. The problem is expectations of integration without recognition of ability or crucial differences. We all cannot grow up to be Arnold Swartzenager, Michael Jordan, Elton John, Margaret Thatcher, Florence Nightingale, Mahatma Gandhi or name your famous successful person. We can not do everything we desire and want. Yes it is true... many of our parents lied to us when we were small. We cannot all grow up to be whatever we want to. I cannot will myself tall or heavy enough to be a Pro basketball or football player. I cannot will myself to be a genius of the likes of Stephen Hawkins. It's not about will or desire and my inability to reach those goals do not reveal societal prejudice but simply genetic realities. We need to accept that we ARE all inequality different and amazing: we are not the same so it is ignorant to assume we can achieve anything. Equality once again is the opportunity to have the chance to both succeed at something and fail. No matter how badly I want to be a Mother my biological and genetic makeup does not permit it. We must accept and embrace our inherent differences and maintain common sense. Standards of excellence and professional performance should be race, gender, age, religion and sexual orientation blind.
We must embrace the fact that making a decision against or for someone based on their race, gender, sexuality etc IS a civil rights violation. Meet the criteria or move on.
The problem we wrestle with in gender or racial ... etc. "quotas" is not a gender or racial one. The problem is expectations of integration without recognition of ability or crucial differences. We all cannot grow up to be Arnold Swartzenager, Michael Jordan, Elton John, Margaret Thatcher, Florence Nightingale, Mahatma Gandhi or name your famous successful person. We can not do everything we desire and want. Yes it is true... many of our parents lied to us when we were small. We cannot all grow up to be whatever we want to. I cannot will myself tall or heavy enough to be a Pro basketball or football player. I cannot will myself to be a genius of the likes of Stephen Hawkins. It's not about will or desire and my inability to reach those goals do not reveal societal prejudice but simply genetic realities. We need to accept that we ARE all inequality different and amazing: we are not the same so it is ignorant to assume we can achieve anything. Equality once again is the opportunity to have the chance to both succeed at something and fail. No matter how badly I want to be a Mother my biological and genetic makeup does not permit it. We must accept and embrace our inherent differences and maintain common sense. Standards of excellence and professional performance should be race, gender, age, religion and sexual orientation blind.
We must embrace the fact that making a decision against or for someone based on their race, gender, sexuality etc IS a civil rights violation. Meet the criteria or move on.
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LTC (Join to see)
I saw them sent on actual fire calls
even though they failed to meet physical criteria and in no way were they capable of carrying out their partner. Their partner would simply burn to death... unless another firefighter arrived who could pass the physical requirements happened to be in the area. But whoever is assigned a partner like that is at risk of burning to death. This was the reason I left EMS/Fire Services...
even though they failed to meet physical criteria and in no way were they capable of carrying out their partner. Their partner would simply burn to death... unless another firefighter arrived who could pass the physical requirements happened to be in the area. But whoever is assigned a partner like that is at risk of burning to death. This was the reason I left EMS/Fire Services...
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There's a lower standard, which isn't always a good thing, and there's failing a required course which they need to save lives of others.
That would be like a female not being able to qualify on her M16/M4 and being allowed to graduate Basic Training.
That would be like a female not being able to qualify on her M16/M4 and being allowed to graduate Basic Training.
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Her retention is a political decision and chances are someone may die because she doesn't have the physical stamina for firefighting. If someone does, expect lawsuits. FDNY is a bureaucracy and like all bureaucracies they have admin billets. She'll probably end up there, wearing the uniform, enjoying the prestige and receiving a paycheck she doesn't rate.
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PT is pretty vital to being a fire fighter the last time I checked. I wouldn't want her coming to put out a fire at my house!
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She will sit at a Fire station until she complains about not being used at a fire. When they are forced to let her go in, she will freeze and or not be able to physically get the job done or run out of air way faster than her teammates, in which case now they need to rescue her and the people in the burning house which could/will get herself and her teammates killed, along with the people they were trying to rescue. Then guess who is going to sue? The families of firefighters the city let down by letting a non-qualified individual on their team. Just my prediction and opinion. I'm not saying i can meet every physical standard that's out there. If I were to go for Ranger or SFAS, and I can't meet the physical requirement, I don't expect to continue training. There are standards for a reason.
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