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I have answered the “what about a draft “ question here more than a few times
Always to the no or the negative, don’t want it, didn’t work great when we had it. Type of response
But how about just a partial draft?
Continue doing what we doing now for recruitment, good pay and benefits bonuses many choices.
End of each service just like now, services set an accession number.... for easy math let’s say the army needs 10,000 recruits fiscal year 2021
At the end of fiscal year 2021 only 8200 citizens have volunteered
Military age citizens would make up the deficit of 1800 recruits
1800 people from the drop list lottery are selected no bonuses no choice of duties conscript service for let’s say two years
At the completion of two years honorable service those drafted and now released are eligible for full VA benefits just like an soldier volunteer.
So there is some incentive to be professional moral ethical productive during your Conscript service during and after.
Pay grade is capped at E4 during conscript service..
MOS is assigned based on needs of the army (service)
Guidance to the MSC‘s is to use them in MOS if they show confidence and willingness, competence and good work ethic or freely assign transcripts for those duties and tasks every unit gets stuck with outside the mission statement or Mission essential task list
Borrowed military man power, 180 or 365 day tasking‘s two National Training Center etc.
Every non-mission critical task company battalion and brigade level units have to put soldiers into
Staff Duty CQ, KP, duty driver, garrison task or jobs. rail head teams, wash rack even in a diploid status somebody has to check ID cards at the DFAC, the headquarters somebody has to answer a phone or a radio and all the other non-MOS specific duties job as actions or task that every unit has to put qualified MOS people into just to get through the day.
And that way there’s some personal control in their destiny. if they choose to stand up and do the best they can they may be allowed to serve in a MOS trained slot, possibly even displacing a volunteer SM Who then gets to go for fill those unglamorous, Unfun tasking‘s.
In response to the very issues I’ve brought up previously in other threads
What about a conscript having a bad attitude? unwilling to work? being a problem child?
That’s addressed with the carrot or the stick.
The carrot is good pay Unless taken away during UCMJ) benefits (unless other then an honorable discharge is warranted) some freedom while serving(do your job well, get to do your job, Be a dud get to clean the wash wrack 6 days a week) full benefits at the end (unless other then an honorable discharge is warranted)
The stick is a streamlined UCMJ process, maybe bring back local corrections facilities at the unit level shitty taskings EVERY day for 2 years.
Even my children growing up learned very quickly that when they were being punished for having Done something wrong
Learned it was much better to do a reasonably good job at whatever task they were given rather than face the consequences of blowing off whatever task were given, ignoring a restriction or doing a half assed job at them.
Certainly a military age service member conscript can figure out the same as a 12-year-old
Always to the no or the negative, don’t want it, didn’t work great when we had it. Type of response
But how about just a partial draft?
Continue doing what we doing now for recruitment, good pay and benefits bonuses many choices.
End of each service just like now, services set an accession number.... for easy math let’s say the army needs 10,000 recruits fiscal year 2021
At the end of fiscal year 2021 only 8200 citizens have volunteered
Military age citizens would make up the deficit of 1800 recruits
1800 people from the drop list lottery are selected no bonuses no choice of duties conscript service for let’s say two years
At the completion of two years honorable service those drafted and now released are eligible for full VA benefits just like an soldier volunteer.
So there is some incentive to be professional moral ethical productive during your Conscript service during and after.
Pay grade is capped at E4 during conscript service..
MOS is assigned based on needs of the army (service)
Guidance to the MSC‘s is to use them in MOS if they show confidence and willingness, competence and good work ethic or freely assign transcripts for those duties and tasks every unit gets stuck with outside the mission statement or Mission essential task list
Borrowed military man power, 180 or 365 day tasking‘s two National Training Center etc.
Every non-mission critical task company battalion and brigade level units have to put soldiers into
Staff Duty CQ, KP, duty driver, garrison task or jobs. rail head teams, wash rack even in a diploid status somebody has to check ID cards at the DFAC, the headquarters somebody has to answer a phone or a radio and all the other non-MOS specific duties job as actions or task that every unit has to put qualified MOS people into just to get through the day.
And that way there’s some personal control in their destiny. if they choose to stand up and do the best they can they may be allowed to serve in a MOS trained slot, possibly even displacing a volunteer SM Who then gets to go for fill those unglamorous, Unfun tasking‘s.
In response to the very issues I’ve brought up previously in other threads
What about a conscript having a bad attitude? unwilling to work? being a problem child?
That’s addressed with the carrot or the stick.
The carrot is good pay Unless taken away during UCMJ) benefits (unless other then an honorable discharge is warranted) some freedom while serving(do your job well, get to do your job, Be a dud get to clean the wash wrack 6 days a week) full benefits at the end (unless other then an honorable discharge is warranted)
The stick is a streamlined UCMJ process, maybe bring back local corrections facilities at the unit level shitty taskings EVERY day for 2 years.
Even my children growing up learned very quickly that when they were being punished for having Done something wrong
Learned it was much better to do a reasonably good job at whatever task they were given rather than face the consequences of blowing off whatever task were given, ignoring a restriction or doing a half assed job at them.
Certainly a military age service member conscript can figure out the same as a 12-year-old
Posted in these groups: 
Selective Service (the Draft)
Selective Service (the Draft)
Edited 6 y ago
Posted 6 y ago
Responses: 7
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The major problem with the draft is that to be fair, anyone drafted would have to serve in some capacity. If not, it will drift into the system of deferments and exclusions that plagued the draft system from WWII to the last one in 1973. Maybe the way Heinlein envisioned service in Starship Trooper would work with the draft.
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I don't really see any real reason for it today tbh. We always have more willing recruits than we need these days. One thing that would have to change is allowing females to be drafted imo.
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SGM Erik Marquez
SPC Angela Burnham
You might want to research. That a little bit.
We haven’t met recruiting Goals for years
Add In the number of
Non depoyables that are in the pipeline
To Be separated and there is even more needed.
If you have read a report or article that says other please link to it, perhaps my info is not current
Thanks
You might want to research. That a little bit.
We haven’t met recruiting Goals for years
Add In the number of
Non depoyables that are in the pipeline
To Be separated and there is even more needed.
If you have read a report or article that says other please link to it, perhaps my info is not current
Thanks
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SGT (Join to see)
“ For the first time since 2005, the U.S. Army missed its recruiting goal this year...”
https://nypost.com/2018/09/22/army-misses-recruiting-goal-for-first-time-since-2005/
“ Three of the four branches of military service under the Pentagon’s domain met their recruiting goals for the past year, even as their two biggest foes — an improving economy and a degenerating pool of prospects — continued their dual assault.”
http://www.talkmedianews.com/pentagon-news-as-it-break-from-the-pentagon/2018/11/16/3-of-the-4-military-branches-meet-recruiting-goals/
“ But, as with most years, the Marines again hit its recruiting goals..”
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2018/11/02/the-corps-is-finding-new-marines-despite-recruiting-challenges/
It seems as though the services hit their recruiting goals more often than not.
SGM Erik Marquez
SPC Angela Burnham
https://nypost.com/2018/09/22/army-misses-recruiting-goal-for-first-time-since-2005/
“ Three of the four branches of military service under the Pentagon’s domain met their recruiting goals for the past year, even as their two biggest foes — an improving economy and a degenerating pool of prospects — continued their dual assault.”
http://www.talkmedianews.com/pentagon-news-as-it-break-from-the-pentagon/2018/11/16/3-of-the-4-military-branches-meet-recruiting-goals/
“ But, as with most years, the Marines again hit its recruiting goals..”
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2018/11/02/the-corps-is-finding-new-marines-despite-recruiting-challenges/
It seems as though the services hit their recruiting goals more often than not.
SGM Erik Marquez
SPC Angela Burnham
Army misses recruiting goal for first time since 2005
WASHINGTON — For the first time since 2005, the U.S. Army missed its recruiting goal this year, falling short by about 6,500 soldiers, despite pouring an extra $200 million into bonuses and approvi…
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SPC Angela Burnham
Thanks for the replys guys. I'll look into the sources you provided, perhaps I'm misinformed. SGM Erik Marquez SGT (Join to see)
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SSgt Robert Conn
Army has paid enough in bonus to fully equip and train over 3,000 drarters for 1 yearSGM Erik Marquez
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SGM Erik Marquez I agree with the premise. I think it would also validate he Selective service system by making it run at a "pilot production" rate in the event it needed to go to full production.
The inevitable gripe will be real and imagined fairness. The selection: why her instead of him? Why instead of this other guy? The lottery would have to be without exception except medical, mental health, unsuitability (drugs, criminal record, etc). Lack of fitness would have to be accommodated and not be a free ticket out. People get recycled in training all the time. So what if they spend an extra 4 weeks in Basic training? It would be an excellent incentive to get in shape and graduate.
I think UCMJ would have to be powered down to the Company and yes, CCF. For everyone who needs it, not just the draftees. I think allowing draftees the option of reenlisting if they desire and are eligible, would be value added. Upon reenlistment they should be eligible to compete for E5.
If we don't treat enlistees the same we get a caste system...like the colored jump suits for the foreign workers in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. That would be corrosive.
The inevitable gripe will be real and imagined fairness. The selection: why her instead of him? Why instead of this other guy? The lottery would have to be without exception except medical, mental health, unsuitability (drugs, criminal record, etc). Lack of fitness would have to be accommodated and not be a free ticket out. People get recycled in training all the time. So what if they spend an extra 4 weeks in Basic training? It would be an excellent incentive to get in shape and graduate.
I think UCMJ would have to be powered down to the Company and yes, CCF. For everyone who needs it, not just the draftees. I think allowing draftees the option of reenlisting if they desire and are eligible, would be value added. Upon reenlistment they should be eligible to compete for E5.
If we don't treat enlistees the same we get a caste system...like the colored jump suits for the foreign workers in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. That would be corrosive.
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SGM Erik Marquez
Treated the same yes
Same ucmj
Same pay and Benefits
Jobs and taskings are always assigned by a selective criteria
Not uncommon for the 180 day ets loss to get tasked to the 90 day wash rack detail
No need for them to go to training while a SM with longevity power washes concrete
Same ucmj
Same pay and Benefits
Jobs and taskings are always assigned by a selective criteria
Not uncommon for the 180 day ets loss to get tasked to the 90 day wash rack detail
No need for them to go to training while a SM with longevity power washes concrete
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I do not read anything largely different than the Vietnam draft area with the exception of limiting the pay grade to SPC. Draftees had the GI Bill back in the day as far as I know. I do support some kind of draft but i do not like putting a cap on E-4 especially if the SM is deployed in a combat zone and has warranted a promotion to Sergeant. The system is already set up to draft with registration. I would not support deferments for college, only medical. However, they should be able to complete their semester. Draft dodger should be caught and serve 2 years of community service & given a stipend, or the Peace Corp overseas. Opinions vary...........
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SGM Erik Marquez
My thought on limiting pay grade was twofold one as an incentive to volunteer not wait to get drafted to limit the damage that can be done when I dropped it it’s a bar the last thing you want is somebody like that somehow getting a promotion and unqualified end up in an NCO position
My thought on limiting paygrade was twofold one as an incentive to volunteer not wait to get drafted to limit the damage that could be done when I draft it it’s a bar the last thing you want is somebody like that somehow getting a promotion and a unqualified end up in an NCO position
Anybody that’s been in more than a couple years Can attest that no matter the safeguards it does happen
mentally
physically
Or emotionally
Or more than one or all three somehow get A promotion
Unless I misunderstand the research I did on the Vietnam era draft.
Another difference with what I proposed is how the draft date will be used
The idea is to put them in positions that otherwise qualified motivated servicemembers may have to fill
Well I’m sure that happened in the Vietnam era draft it was not a stated goal with top down level approval and guidance
I could see my way to allowing those in a community service oriented graduate degree medical therapist etc. being allowed to deferment
But if you’re going for your masters in gender studies sorry no no deferment
Medical deferments as determined by two Positions one governmental one personal choice with the governmental doctor being the tiebreaker
Well Some get away with not Completing their commitment? Absolutely life isn’t fair but we can look to history and ways draft dodgers have implemented the methods and work out some safeguards that will decrease the numbers
My thought on limiting paygrade was twofold one as an incentive to volunteer not wait to get drafted to limit the damage that could be done when I draft it it’s a bar the last thing you want is somebody like that somehow getting a promotion and a unqualified end up in an NCO position
Anybody that’s been in more than a couple years Can attest that no matter the safeguards it does happen
mentally
physically
Or emotionally
Or more than one or all three somehow get A promotion
Unless I misunderstand the research I did on the Vietnam era draft.
Another difference with what I proposed is how the draft date will be used
The idea is to put them in positions that otherwise qualified motivated servicemembers may have to fill
Well I’m sure that happened in the Vietnam era draft it was not a stated goal with top down level approval and guidance
I could see my way to allowing those in a community service oriented graduate degree medical therapist etc. being allowed to deferment
But if you’re going for your masters in gender studies sorry no no deferment
Medical deferments as determined by two Positions one governmental one personal choice with the governmental doctor being the tiebreaker
Well Some get away with not Completing their commitment? Absolutely life isn’t fair but we can look to history and ways draft dodgers have implemented the methods and work out some safeguards that will decrease the numbers
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MSG Danny Mathers
I went to Vietnam as a E-4 and was promoted to SGT E-5 at 19 years old. You had to learn quickly or you were busted back to SP4. The Infantry School had NCOCS which was 5 month long and the top SM graduated as SSG, the rest as SGT. The same applied. I worked with a lot of NCOs years later that were what we called "shake & back NCOs" and they were good Soldiers.
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Interesting concept SGM Erik Marquez and one I'd have to think about for a while before answering in depth. First thing that comes to mind is how to make it fair and equitable across the board (ie: rich and/or well connected can't buy their way out). Would we still allow those with felony convictions to be drafted? As I recall, both of those issues were problems during the last draft and proved problematic at best.
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I oppose conscription. It is involuntary servitude that should be considered illegal under the 14th Amendment. If the military can't get free people to join with incentives than we need to rethink our policy and if our government is worth defending.
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I have always taken issue with the draft. 1st, no matter how fairly it is designed, there is always the perception that some (usually rich and/or connected white guys) will be able to doge the draft, laying the burden unequally upon the shoulders of the economically disadvantaged.
2nd, while I understand that SCOTUS HAS ruled it Constitutional in ragards to the 13th Amendmwnt and involuntary servitude, it still seems, to me, to run afoul of the 5th Amenment and depriving folks of their liberty without due process of the law.
All that being said, I believe your system COULD work, although I would still prefer an all-volunteer Army if possible. And it would have the added bonus of relieving some of the stress on recruiters.
2nd, while I understand that SCOTUS HAS ruled it Constitutional in ragards to the 13th Amendmwnt and involuntary servitude, it still seems, to me, to run afoul of the 5th Amenment and depriving folks of their liberty without due process of the law.
All that being said, I believe your system COULD work, although I would still prefer an all-volunteer Army if possible. And it would have the added bonus of relieving some of the stress on recruiters.
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MSG Danny Mathers
Life is not fair. Some get away & some don't. Canada could use more draft dodgers, Mexico you go to jail.
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