Posted on Sep 13, 2016
Would an E9 comply if ordered to attention by an O1?
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I was walking behind a master chief on base. We passed a ensign and the master chief did not render a salute.
The ensign then stopped the master chief and asked him if he saw his rank, the master chief replied with a yes.
The ensign then said, you have to salute me and how come you didn't? The master chief's reply, "Because I make more fing money than you." The master chief then walked off while the ensign was standing with speechless.
The ensign then stopped the master chief and asked him if he saw his rank, the master chief replied with a yes.
The ensign then said, you have to salute me and how come you didn't? The master chief's reply, "Because I make more fing money than you." The master chief then walked off while the ensign was standing with speechless.
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CPO Bill Penrod
If I was witnessed this disrepect the master chief and I would have to have a "take off your anchor" discussion........
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I have seen one instance related to this topic.
I was in civilian clothes leaving the barracks and I was walking behind a master chief (in inform). This ensign (butter bar) was walking towards us. The master chief never rendered a salute and kept walking.
The ensign then stopped the master chief and asked, "did you see my rank?" The master chief replied, "I did." The ensign then told master chief you are suppose to salute me and asked how come he didn't. Master chief's reply, "Because I make more money than you!"
Master Chief then turned and walked away. The ensign was standing with a deer in the headlights look on his face.
I was in civilian clothes leaving the barracks and I was walking behind a master chief (in inform). This ensign (butter bar) was walking towards us. The master chief never rendered a salute and kept walking.
The ensign then stopped the master chief and asked, "did you see my rank?" The master chief replied, "I did." The ensign then told master chief you are suppose to salute me and asked how come he didn't. Master chief's reply, "Because I make more money than you!"
Master Chief then turned and walked away. The ensign was standing with a deer in the headlights look on his face.
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i'd take a video camera and record the action of the butter bar getting put into his place...lol
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Having served at Fort Richardson, my last duty station in the 80's, I was desk bound and working for two Captains. One of which was a true officer and the other was a special kind of a**hole. Capt. P would consistently berate enlisted and considered that his five jumps for his wings made him a hardcore paratrooper. But I digress. I had a buddy who was an E-6 that worked in secure records room down stairs who we called the old man. He was in his mid-forties and Captain P. would always comment that he must have done something wrong or that he was a slacker for not having obtained at least E-7 by now. However, on the day that he retired, it was a beautiful thing. At the retirement ceremony, most of the entire building and a multitude of others attended, Captain P. was standing there when the E-6 walked up...except he wasn't wearing his normal BDUs...he was in full dress, with officer strips, Major oak leafs, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, CIB, Jump Wings, Ranger Tab and a multitude of others ribbons from Vietnam that I did not recognize. When Captain P., who was standing there with just his wings and three non-combat ribbons and had to render that salute....it made me smile. I don't know the whole story, but Captain L. told me that the SSGT. had a battlefield commission in Vietnam, made it to 0-4 and held it long enough to retire at it, but with the cuts in the 1970's he did not have the education for retention in a the peace time army and was offered either a revert to enlisted or separation into reserves as an officer...I still don't fully comprehend that, but for just a minute, it was a beautiful day in the 6th ID....
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I recall a similar situation when my Div-O, a Lt., was bumped up the chain and replaced by a shavetail ensign. I had more time in service than him and I was a lowly E-3. Our CPO was a no-nonsense kind of guy with 17 years in. EN Snotnose was attempting to dress down the chief because he showed up to evening muster with paint on his shoes. Chief stood there at attention for the entire speech, about five minutes. After the ensign was done chief did a smart about face, saluted the CMDR behind him and said, "All yours, Sir." We heard the reeducation two decks down.
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You bet your sweet ass he would...rank is rank and failure to do so is a violation of military regs and protocols.
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If a Lieutenant locked up a SGM/CSM, he better be prepared to take on his Bn and/or Bde Cdr as well.
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I saw this happen years ago ... The E-9 complied with the order .. and the next day the O-1 was being transferred to another command .. and I am sure not with a good OER ...
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Never had the opportunity to see this wonder. However, I did once see an E6 open a door, have a GENERAL come walk in, and have the E6 nod and walk away. Luckilly I did not drop in shock and hollered "ROOM TEN HUT!" Our Colonel had a few choice words for the E6....
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Hell No...that butter bar may outrank the E9 but at the end of the day there's is time and place for everything...there's no way I'm going to have a 2LT, not even a CPT..no way, if that E9 allows that kind of stuff he/she needs to be demoted..
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An O1 outranks an E9, simple as that. But as others have said, what are you trying to prove by just flexing your "authority/rank" just you because you can? 9/10 times, your senior NCOs are there to help you and mould you (as well as their subordinate NCOs) into the best leaders they can be so they can retire with the knowledge that (hopefully) the unit won't burn down the minute they hang up the uniform. You'd be foolish to break the wing they're trying to take you under instead of getting under it.
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Ive seen it once. Imagine an old west movie, when the stranger walks through the door and you hear all the conversation stop, the piano player turns to look and you just know some shit is about to go down.
First NTC rotation I was helping my Lt with some map overlays at the Bat TOC, our Battalion SMG was addressing some of the troops and a butter bar decided to interrupt and verbally correct him in front of said enlisted. SGM appeared to momentarily suppress his feral instinct to gouge out the butter bars eyes, then politely invited said butter bar into the battalion TOC for happy hour with the Bat CO. I believe the butter bar had a "come to jesus" meeting and exited the TOC 20 minutes later having seen the error of his ways.
First NTC rotation I was helping my Lt with some map overlays at the Bat TOC, our Battalion SMG was addressing some of the troops and a butter bar decided to interrupt and verbally correct him in front of said enlisted. SGM appeared to momentarily suppress his feral instinct to gouge out the butter bars eyes, then politely invited said butter bar into the battalion TOC for happy hour with the Bat CO. I believe the butter bar had a "come to jesus" meeting and exited the TOC 20 minutes later having seen the error of his ways.
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When I was at Ft. Lewis, we were out back of the CP cleaning weapons and a 2nd Lt was walking towards us form the Battalion area, our SGM was distracted and walking towards him and offended the Lt. He locked up the SGM had him at parade rest , was chewing him out, SGM never lost his composure , 'Yes , Sir' , ' No, Sir' , as soon as the Lt was done speaking the SGM saluted and immediately went to Battalion , literally 3 mins after he went in, the Battalion Commander came flying out, chased the LT down , I have never seen someone so scared , he was white as a ghost, I think he actually soiled himself by some of the comments the BC was making to him, until I PCS'ed every time that LT saw that SGM coming he would run away.
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LTJG (Join to see)
Great share SPC Herold Bush. Things have a way of working themselves out. There are eyes everywhere, especially when you're a JO!
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Respect the rank if not the Man behind it - or get an Article 15. Remember, he is there to learn and improve and, if he is smart, will listen to his senior NCO, if he is lucky enough to have good one. Ultimately he is responsible for everything whether he is or not and for what his crew does or fails to do. Keep in mind, he is injured by a mistake far more than any EM. Its a tremendous burden. Go along to get along.
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Nat'l Guard Readiness NCO (SFC) who had previously been Bn Ops NCO (MSG), Brand new SFC (acting 1SG for the weekend) tells him to stop what he is doing to follow HIS orders, (oh, and former MSG has more years in service than new E-7 has alive), the shouting started and all of the rest of us left the room and closed the door behind us. Shouting went on for a while.
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I guess the oath of enlistment stuff gets tossed at a certain pay grade. And if a CO is facilitating it, it's even worse. Whatever circumstances that would even create such a situation should have been avoided, but regardless of your crust level a zero is a zero and unless he or she is giving you an unlawful or downright death to everyone order just to save their cat...why wouldn't they. Even at year 20 when a butterbar showed up, I stood up, still sprinkled in a sir or ma'am and carried out the plan of the day even if they needed some advice to smooth out that plan. I did witness the Bn SgtMaj flick his cigar at a LT when he asked if he was going to salute him. The CO backed SgtMaj up and literally crushed him in front of a bunch of LCpls. He spent the next year just lurking in the shadows until he PCS'd. Stuff like that does have a negative affect. Suck it up or try your best to avoid it.
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I honestly could never imagine seeing an E7 or above, especially an E9, ordered to attention by an O1.. I'd imagine that kind of stupid wouldn't last too long in the military. If that O1 doesn't believe in God, he might want to start, because you know pretty soon he will be praying everyone forgets about it. The CO and everyone up to the CO will put the fear of God in him.. All I know is, were such an O1 to make it out alive from his "mentorship" training with his Senior Officers, that E9 would probably receive the best service and utmost respect from the O1.
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I once witness an O3 (Marine Captain) talking rudely to a Master Chief (E9) without disregards for who was present or not. The Master Chief listened and answered professionally while standing at attention. Sure enough, once the Master Chief boss came back to the office, the Captain was standing at attention in front of a CAPTAIN answering for his unbecoming an officer. I hated that environment and culture. Good thing I got out when I could, otherwise I would've punch the hell out of that officer that spoke to me like I'm some sort of idiot.
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