Posted on May 29, 2014
Would it be wrong for MARSOC to put a restriction on a female saying she cannot get pregnant for X amount of time while in MARSOC?
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The Marine Corps is going to start creating studies of females in many different jobs that were closed out to them previously.
They have started with females going through the School of infantry and have now incorporated them into even different weapons MOSs.
There is also a study standing up in January of 2016 where females and males will be take part in a special task force to study females in actual infantry roles.
Now to the question: There has also been talk of females joining MARSOC (Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command)assessment and selection process to become operators. The amount of training and time that it takes to make an operator and the rapid deployment of these forces would make it almost impossible for a team member to be out for 9 months, plus an additional 6 months for maternity leave. Would it be wrong for MARSOC to put a restriction on a female who wishes to join MARSOC by saying that if you choose to join you cannot get pregnant for X amount of time while in MARSOC?
They have started with females going through the School of infantry and have now incorporated them into even different weapons MOSs.
There is also a study standing up in January of 2016 where females and males will be take part in a special task force to study females in actual infantry roles.
Now to the question: There has also been talk of females joining MARSOC (Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command)assessment and selection process to become operators. The amount of training and time that it takes to make an operator and the rapid deployment of these forces would make it almost impossible for a team member to be out for 9 months, plus an additional 6 months for maternity leave. Would it be wrong for MARSOC to put a restriction on a female who wishes to join MARSOC by saying that if you choose to join you cannot get pregnant for X amount of time while in MARSOC?
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 49
Now this is a tricky question. All Soldiers join the military knowing the possibility of deployment and being stationed overseas. Female Soldiers join knowing there are times they must (should) take or use some form of contraceptive. At the same time there will always be the Soldiers who change there mind at the last minute. I am not digging on female Soldiers there are male Soldiers that do this as well (in a different way obviously.) I know that some times accidents happen and some times unwanted pregnancy's happen with contraceptives. However the pullout method is not an accident. I do know female Soldiers who have purposely gotten pregnant so they did not deploy, I can see one accident however the 2nd time she should be discharged. Same with a male Soldier I know one who was caught bragging that he had a friend brake his arm with a baseball bat so he did not have to deploy. Which reminds me of another question "Should a Soldier who claims Conscientious objector be discharged instead of kept overseas/in the military wasting tax payers dollars."
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SFC (Join to see)
Depends. If they are a medic or on an individual basis, they are evaluated, etc. there are those who claim conscientious objector status but are still committed to the mission. Some may feel that they don't want to fire a weapon in anger at a fellow human being but choose to serve on the front line as a medic and put themselves in harms way to save their fellow comrades, etc. etc..
Totally different from a Soldier who just wusses out is the way I see it.
Totally different from a Soldier who just wusses out is the way I see it.
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LCpl Nicholas Hines
Responsibility dosnt apply to females... That's they way they make it out to be.
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No, I do not believe it is wrong because when they get pregnant, they are put in a Limited Duty status. It's hard to plan an operation if you don't have qualified personnel to carry out the mission.
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Good discussion. I remember when a pregnancy was called instant discharge.
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The Marine Corps already completed a study which showed conclusively that women in infantry roles is detrimental to the unit. That isn't debatable. The SECNAV ignored the study. As for getting pregnant, I've seen that used too many times as a way to get out of a deployment. It wouldn't hurt to put restrictions in place but that won't happen because it's not "fair"
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First, they have to meet the training stardards to get into the unit. She they become pregnant, then they would be released and reassigned to another unit, non- SPEC OPS.
Hopefully when DOD and Congress and whoever decided it was time to incorporate women into combat arms and special warfare units, this was a factor they considered (using common sense of course, so it's doubtful).
As I've said in other posts, any female who does meet the training standards should be afforded the opportunity to serve in Special Ops. One thing we all know, the mental and physical challenges are going to to be so much greater on females.
The Army is allowing Females to go thru Ranger School, however, if they pass, they will not be assigned to the Ranger Regiment. That assignment possibility will be looked at sometime in 2016. My feeling is, they will continue to attend Ranger School, but will not be assigned to the Regiment. I do feel there are places in Special Ops for females, however the Ranger Regiment is NOT one of them.
Hopefully when DOD and Congress and whoever decided it was time to incorporate women into combat arms and special warfare units, this was a factor they considered (using common sense of course, so it's doubtful).
As I've said in other posts, any female who does meet the training standards should be afforded the opportunity to serve in Special Ops. One thing we all know, the mental and physical challenges are going to to be so much greater on females.
The Army is allowing Females to go thru Ranger School, however, if they pass, they will not be assigned to the Ranger Regiment. That assignment possibility will be looked at sometime in 2016. My feeling is, they will continue to attend Ranger School, but will not be assigned to the Regiment. I do feel there are places in Special Ops for females, however the Ranger Regiment is NOT one of them.
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Well, if there are any women in MARSOC, it's because they lowered the physical standards, or ignored them (like Ranger School did). In which case, who cares? The inmates are already running the asylum, and the military has become a massive welfare and vocational training program instead of a war-fighting organization.
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SSgt Joseph Thayer
Anybody else hear about what that idiot secdev wants to do with putting civilians in positions within the military with the rank equivalency of an O-6?
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The whole key to RAPID deployment is that team members are trained and ready to jump to the call. I don't mean to be sexist, but if your pregnant and can't afford to do the job you qualified to do then you shouldn't hold a spot of a field operator. The Marines should never consider lowering or making exceptions to the rules that have brought us the best warriors ever. Do it right or stand aside.
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Personally, I think it would be wrong--and open up a huge issue within Congress. The issue you state is not unique to MarSoc--it's common to any unit that deploys, and especially small teams (EOD, HUMINT, Civil Affairs, etc.). Any policy should address a team members ability to deploy and function as a member of a team (whether they break a leg, have a child with special needs that cannot be left alone, or become pregnant). If they cannot perform the duties--but are still qualified--they should be reassigned/replaced until they are able to carry on their duties.
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I believe if she wants to be in a particular unit and especially a rapid response unit she should be willing to do what it requires to fill the billet and not getting pregnant is one. If she is not willing to do this then se should not be allowed to join this unit. All type of jobs require certain requirements whether it be the amount of time you have to sign up for to not getting pregnant and others. If a team id dependent on you and having to be ready to respond then you should be willing to make what ever sacrifice that is required to fill that job if that is what you want.
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Not to take away from the discussion, but I'm stuck on the six months maternity leave... Think it's six weeks over on this side.
And not a bad idea - just something you'd formulate into terms of a contract. I don't see why any female who legitimately wanted to be a part of any SO community in an operator capacity for the right reasons would be opposed to this. Questions arise though in the event of an accidental pregnancy.
And not a bad idea - just something you'd formulate into terms of a contract. I don't see why any female who legitimately wanted to be a part of any SO community in an operator capacity for the right reasons would be opposed to this. Questions arise though in the event of an accidental pregnancy.
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I didn't think there is a black and white answer to the question. Every woman is different. Some would choose raising the child over her career. Others would fight to get back into the action. I applaud them both! If you have made the necessary arrangements for the raising of the child, good for you and you should be able to get back into the fight. Great question.
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Can you stop them from getting pregnant? No. Can you boot the ones that do back to the non "Special" units? Certainly.
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Sgt S.P. Woodke
your body belongs to Uncle Sam...they spent sh** loads of money on your training and in the blink of an eye THROW all of that away...You're GD Right no one should be allowed in Special Ops if they've got No regard for the call...and the SACRIFICES that come with the RESPONSIBILITY...imho
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1LT Annala is absolutely correct. Besides, most of our female SMs (and their spouses) are smart enough and professional to know when it is a good time to have children and when it isn't. Even most of the male SM's work with their wives on family planning. No SM or spouse can prevent the occasional unscheduled progeny; any more than they can prevent a sudden deployment order when the Chain was sure there would be no deployments for the next 18 months and the family decided to add their number while there was an opportunity to do so.
Our leadership should be smart enough to work around this issue. No, we can't order people NOT to have children. We train professionals to manage their personal lives in a manner that has the least impact on mission accomplishment and give them full support in that endeavor. Besides, Special Operations isn't like the movies, which tend to glamorize the Direct Action missions aspect of Special Operations. DA is a very small part of Special Ops, and more than 90% of Special Ops positions are not Infantry. You might be surprised, 2LT Blais, how many "operators" are actually women, and very formidable operators, too.
Our leadership should be smart enough to work around this issue. No, we can't order people NOT to have children. We train professionals to manage their personal lives in a manner that has the least impact on mission accomplishment and give them full support in that endeavor. Besides, Special Operations isn't like the movies, which tend to glamorize the Direct Action missions aspect of Special Operations. DA is a very small part of Special Ops, and more than 90% of Special Ops positions are not Infantry. You might be surprised, 2LT Blais, how many "operators" are actually women, and very formidable operators, too.
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Capt (Join to see)
Thank you for the correction. You are correct it is 6 weeks, and then in the Marine Corps they give Female Marines 6 months from the end of maternity leave before they are required to do a PFT. I was getting those confused.
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SFC (Join to see)
I believe it is a reasonable request. Spec Ops is very demanding and a certain level of sacrifice is expected.
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