Posted on Dec 13, 2015
Would it have been more honorable for the Officers in the Wehrmacht to resign or stay in under the leadership of the "Fuhrer"?
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**CAVEAT - This is not intended, in any way, to equate any current administration or candidate to the Nazi party or Adolf Hitler. It is simply a question about whether it is honorable to serve under a bad leader or whether it is more honorable to leave the service.
Keep in mind that Hitler was elected by the people. **** CORRECTION - Hitler was NOT elected by the people. He was legally appointed.
What should the Officers and Soldiers in the Wehrmacht have done?
Keep in mind that Hitler was elected by the people. **** CORRECTION - Hitler was NOT elected by the people. He was legally appointed.
What should the Officers and Soldiers in the Wehrmacht have done?
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Honor
Honor
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 17
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My grandfather was in the Wehrmacht, and while he is no longer around to speak for himself, I think I have a good idea of how things were from him.
At the onset of the war, Alfred was a Leutnant. He had been in the Wehrmacht for a few years at that point, just like his father and virtually everyone in his family as far back as they could remember. To them, the invasion of Poland was to recapture Danzig and Posen, areas removed from Germany at the conclusion of WWI. The subsequent invasion of France after they and Britain declared war on Germany in support of Poland was a moment of great pride in Germany, although the invasion of Denmark and the Netherlands did generate some disquiet. By the time it became apparent that things were not just a matter of lost territory and honor, but something else, it was no longer really an option to resign. Officers or Soldiers with apprehensions were sent to the front, and nature took it's course. As the tide of war turned on Germany, the men of the Wehrmacht were in a very real struggle to defend their country from imminent destruction - and even if that were not motivation enough, the SS was there to ensure your "loyalty".
The time to resign was in the early days when Hitler was marching into the Rhineland and Checkoslavakia and Anshlussing Austria. By the time the war got going in earnest, it wasn't really an option.
Alfred made it though the war somehow, despite serving the entire war on the Eastern Front except 1944-45 in France. Eight of his nine brothers and all six sisters were not so fortunate.
At the onset of the war, Alfred was a Leutnant. He had been in the Wehrmacht for a few years at that point, just like his father and virtually everyone in his family as far back as they could remember. To them, the invasion of Poland was to recapture Danzig and Posen, areas removed from Germany at the conclusion of WWI. The subsequent invasion of France after they and Britain declared war on Germany in support of Poland was a moment of great pride in Germany, although the invasion of Denmark and the Netherlands did generate some disquiet. By the time it became apparent that things were not just a matter of lost territory and honor, but something else, it was no longer really an option to resign. Officers or Soldiers with apprehensions were sent to the front, and nature took it's course. As the tide of war turned on Germany, the men of the Wehrmacht were in a very real struggle to defend their country from imminent destruction - and even if that were not motivation enough, the SS was there to ensure your "loyalty".
The time to resign was in the early days when Hitler was marching into the Rhineland and Checkoslavakia and Anshlussing Austria. By the time the war got going in earnest, it wasn't really an option.
Alfred made it though the war somehow, despite serving the entire war on the Eastern Front except 1944-45 in France. Eight of his nine brothers and all six sisters were not so fortunate.
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LTC (Join to see)
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Valkarie was a good example of Aristocratic Germans thinking that enough is enough!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YppIQUiE9Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YppIQUiE9Y
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LTC (Join to see)
I am sorry for the loss of your great aunts and uncles in WW2. Awesome story 1SG! Very detailed!
Von Straffenberg is a Hero in modern Gerrmay!
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11370
Von Straffenberg is a Hero in modern Gerrmay!
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11370
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One must first realize it is a bad leader, and how bad before they can make that decision.
By all accounts, Hitler was a Charismatic Leader. I hesitate to use the word, but it is accurate. He accomplished "Great" things. He also did Terrible, Monstrous, and Horrible things which shall forever be remembered, but we get into very Subjective territory here.
As an opposing question we can look at our own Union Officers who resigned their commissions and fought for the Confederacy, and their view of the opposing side.
By all accounts, Hitler was a Charismatic Leader. I hesitate to use the word, but it is accurate. He accomplished "Great" things. He also did Terrible, Monstrous, and Horrible things which shall forever be remembered, but we get into very Subjective territory here.
As an opposing question we can look at our own Union Officers who resigned their commissions and fought for the Confederacy, and their view of the opposing side.
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LT (Join to see)
I think that as the war progressed that became the case for many Germans. They might have caught a few warning signs before they were in too deep, but they held out in the hope that something would change their circumstances and enable them to continue in their current capacity in an honorable manner.
Another aspect that is overlooked is the impact that family and personal life has on this. Germans might have noticed the red flags and asked themselves, "How do I even do this? I am trying to take care of my family and protect my country! If I leave the service, will they just come back around and conscript me? What if they send me off to wherever they sent my neighbors to? I am not a bad person and I am just trying to do good."
By the height of the war, they knew which side they were on, but how do you get out of that? If you try, you most likely die. At least if you keep fighting for your own personal reasons that you can believe in, you have a reason to live and survive. You can say that you did you part for your good cause. I'm certain that many Germans started to figure out what was happening to the Jews and felt sick. Trapped in the Wehrmacht, they fought for their brothers in arms, their families, and their homes.
I imagine a similar vibe ran through the Confederate forces when the Emancipation Proclamation was issued. That moment at which the common soldier suddenly realized, "This is how the North sees me. All those aristocratic land barons chewing tobacco and eating peanuts in Richmond have smeared my cause." Want for power and disregard for the value of human life on the part of a few have thus tainted the image of Germany and the Old South.
Another aspect that is overlooked is the impact that family and personal life has on this. Germans might have noticed the red flags and asked themselves, "How do I even do this? I am trying to take care of my family and protect my country! If I leave the service, will they just come back around and conscript me? What if they send me off to wherever they sent my neighbors to? I am not a bad person and I am just trying to do good."
By the height of the war, they knew which side they were on, but how do you get out of that? If you try, you most likely die. At least if you keep fighting for your own personal reasons that you can believe in, you have a reason to live and survive. You can say that you did you part for your good cause. I'm certain that many Germans started to figure out what was happening to the Jews and felt sick. Trapped in the Wehrmacht, they fought for their brothers in arms, their families, and their homes.
I imagine a similar vibe ran through the Confederate forces when the Emancipation Proclamation was issued. That moment at which the common soldier suddenly realized, "This is how the North sees me. All those aristocratic land barons chewing tobacco and eating peanuts in Richmond have smeared my cause." Want for power and disregard for the value of human life on the part of a few have thus tainted the image of Germany and the Old South.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
Also to be fair, he did a ton of good things for Germany. Got her out of depression, got her working again, got her fed again and most importantly, got rid of those pesky Versailles restrictions and penalties. And he returned land that had been stolen from Germany. So prior to the 1942 Wannasee conference, he was the best leader Germany could have ever had. So prior to that moment, you the soldier would have been on cloud nine. You'd have been proud to serve. A lot of the death squad operations (roving bands of killers executing Jews and other "un-desirables") were done without fanfare or publicity so the average German-in-the-street wouldn't have known. This all pre-dated the concentration camps becoming death camps.
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SGT (Join to see)
PO3 Donald Murphy - prior to the Wannasee conference, sure, Hitler got Germany out of their crippling depression, got her fed, and got rid of those pesky Versailles restrictions and penalties.
At the cost of getting Germany into a multi-front war with the United States, The Soviet Union, United Kingdom, and just about everyone else. And he chose his biggest allies as Italy and Japan. (Bad move).
He was, quite possibly, the worst leader Germany could have ever had. Hitler had phenomenal leadership skills and traits. He squandered them.
As a result, he died, millions of his people died, his country was split in two, his capital was cut up like a pie, and Germany is still socially recovering, 75 years later, from the effects of his leadership. (So much more, but I won’t write a dissertation here).
But hey, at least they got rid of those pesky Versailles restrictions for a few years. Way to to, Hitler.
At the cost of getting Germany into a multi-front war with the United States, The Soviet Union, United Kingdom, and just about everyone else. And he chose his biggest allies as Italy and Japan. (Bad move).
He was, quite possibly, the worst leader Germany could have ever had. Hitler had phenomenal leadership skills and traits. He squandered them.
As a result, he died, millions of his people died, his country was split in two, his capital was cut up like a pie, and Germany is still socially recovering, 75 years later, from the effects of his leadership. (So much more, but I won’t write a dissertation here).
But hey, at least they got rid of those pesky Versailles restrictions for a few years. Way to to, Hitler.
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PO3 Donald Murphy
Agreed, but you can't look at a 1942 issue with 2018 eyes. Germany was a dictatorship/police state and there was no CNN, blogs, twitter, etc. So the average German heard the news on his radio which was state supplied/sponsored. What we know *NOW* in 2018 was lightyears away in 1942. Maybe you had a cousin Fritz or friend Hans who returned from the front and made statements like "oh them allies are really beating our asses; I foresee us losing." But barring that, the only stories from the front will be rosy. U-Boat kills monthly on the radio, air kills, etc. So until the allies crossed the border itself and started mangling Germany, the average soldier/officer was full of pride at serving.
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