Posted on Dec 17, 2014
Would you make a uniform correction on a member of another branch of service?
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I work with a joint operational command and during deployments I worked a few joint operations. I never even considered making corrections of other branches, but I'm curious to know if they happens and what the RP community feel about it
Uniforms
Military Industry
Officers
NCOs
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 44
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SGT (Join to see)
*Motions the soldier over*
Me: "You can't wear whatever you want, soldier. You, are in violation of AR 670-1. I insist that you about face-immediately-and go change."
Soldier: "AR 670-1? *Points to patch* "I'm a Marine."
Me, straight-faced: "I know. But your patches reversed and you are wearing a summer top with winter bottoms, Lance Corporal Sergeant Major."
*scuttles away*
Unless they had dreadlocks and black lipstick on, I don't think I could do it...not at my rank. That correction is up to their branch superiors.
Me: "You can't wear whatever you want, soldier. You, are in violation of AR 670-1. I insist that you about face-immediately-and go change."
Soldier: "AR 670-1? *Points to patch* "I'm a Marine."
Me, straight-faced: "I know. But your patches reversed and you are wearing a summer top with winter bottoms, Lance Corporal Sergeant Major."
*scuttles away*
Unless they had dreadlocks and black lipstick on, I don't think I could do it...not at my rank. That correction is up to their branch superiors.
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Cpl Heather Jackson
If I know the service regulations even as a veteran and the spouse of a retired veteran, you can bet that I would say something. We took an oath and even as a retiree or veteran, we all have a responsibility to uphold the oath we took, to which includes uniform regulations.
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SPC David Hannaman
If I was absolutely sure, then yes... tactfully. Better to receive correction from a friend or peer than from someone higher up the food chain.
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LTC (Join to see)
Some corrections transcend branch of service (untucked laces, no headgear outside or wearing headgear inside), and anyone can spot correct those. For branch-specific corrections, it's better to ask than to tell, as in, "Marine, are you supposed to wear flipflops with your class-A's?"
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My last deployment was as the JOC SGM at RC East, Afghanistan. It was a Joint operation.. I had Ops officers and enlisted from the Marines, Navy, Airforce and Army... As uniform regs can very so much between services... If (when) I noticed something that did not look right.. say Ear rings on an AF officer wearing Army ACU, I would spend a few min to educate myself on that service reg and then take it up with an NCO from that branch to address. Or for the senior officers on the floor, just deal with it directly. Never had any push back and I must say the conversations were always professional.. often one or both of use learning something along the way.
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There is in my opinion a time and a place for it. As an example, in Garrison, and you know, not think, know what is correct. And because it is cross service, I would use more tact than I normally would-in the spirit of relations. Of course at my advanced age in the service, I doubt that I am going to catch much flak from many folks when I approach. More likely though, I would see if there was another member of the same service near by to ensure that "correction" was a required one.
As an example of when not to, again, in my opinion, is the deployed environment-or at a transit base where the troops are returning from who knows where and have experienced who knows what, and quite possibly have suffered casualties of very close friends/unit members. I personally leave that to the their respective services/units. That is unless they are causing a disruption, in which case, I have stepped in.
As an example of when not to, again, in my opinion, is the deployed environment-or at a transit base where the troops are returning from who knows where and have experienced who knows what, and quite possibly have suffered casualties of very close friends/unit members. I personally leave that to the their respective services/units. That is unless they are causing a disruption, in which case, I have stepped in.
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1LT William Clardy
I share PO2 Jonathan Scharff's opinion, CMSgt James Nolan. You not only get what I was saying, you have practiced it.
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CMSgt James Nolan
1LT William Clardy PO2 Jonathan Scharff Thank you both gentlemen. In the Air Force people turn to the 1stSgt as the "uniform police" I go back to it is everyone's job. Some people need simple instruction, some need care and feeding, some need a swift kick or harsh conversation, a good NCO will pick up on what is needed.
I always have my "ass" with me. It is up to you if you want it up on my shoulders for the world to see. There is a vast difference between the 'unintentional' and the 'on purpose', and the "ass" tends to come out for the 'on purpose'. I have found that the older I get, the bigger that "ass" can get.
And, I have been utterly embarrassed by NCOs who will chase after a troop who is actively engaged in PT (running), whose PT shirt (back) has come untucked (because they are exercising), yelling for them to stop. I will admit that I did get a kick out of the time that the troop feigned inability to hear and sped up....in fact I laughed.
I always have my "ass" with me. It is up to you if you want it up on my shoulders for the world to see. There is a vast difference between the 'unintentional' and the 'on purpose', and the "ass" tends to come out for the 'on purpose'. I have found that the older I get, the bigger that "ass" can get.
And, I have been utterly embarrassed by NCOs who will chase after a troop who is actively engaged in PT (running), whose PT shirt (back) has come untucked (because they are exercising), yelling for them to stop. I will admit that I did get a kick out of the time that the troop feigned inability to hear and sped up....in fact I laughed.
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1LT William Clardy
CMSgt James Nolan, I wasn't feigning, I just didn't understand what he was saying. You know how hard it is to comprehend when somebody decides to remove all doubt about how big a fool he is....
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Absolutely. Especially since I served in 2 different branches of service. The real reason is simple: It is to keep the standards high among all the branches. No other reason. Honest corrections are always appreciated.
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SSG(P) (Join to see)
I never want to appear 'ate up', if tact were used, I'd run, not walk to fix my effed up uniform. If you treat me like a PVT, I'm probably going to take my time.
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Generally, no I wouldn't. First, you'd better be right, and regs and instructions are always changing. Second, you better already be friends with the guy or girl you need to correct, because it needs to be a FRIENDLY reminder to help them avoid embarrassment, not as a poke in their service's eye.
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MSG David Johnson
I don't agree. While in Saudi Arabia waiting to kick off Desert Storm there were a bunch of reservists that thought they were on MASH, as an E5 making corrections of that nature you almost have to make them. If we were seen walking by and ignoring them we were the ones that were called on the carpet.
As an NCO I had no problem correcting an issue, I have corrected reserve officers who go into places with out a uniform top, I was in civilian clothes at the time and called this individual over out of the publics view, id'd myself and let him know he was out of uniform. He didn't like it a bit, asked for my commander, and 1SG's numbers. I provided them and went on my way. I heard later from my commander about the call he got. Thie guy I had corrected was a 1LT and he told my commander I had embarrassed him in public by yelling at him about his uniform issues.
My commander ripped into him, one for being out of uniform and needing to be corrected, and for lying about me yelling. I don't yell about anything, I may not have much tact but I use it when necessary.
If it's someone from another branch and I don't know the regs for them I simply ask, 99% of the time they will tell me the reg and then correct themselves. I've made corrections on ROTC, JRROTC, and anyone else that needed one. If it's an officer it just takes tact, if they are wrong they normally fix the problem, but there will always be those that get irate for an NCO questioning them. You will never get away from those.
Now if you're out on mission I'm not gonna say a thing, unless it's extremely blatant, because I'm probably out of uniform myself, but back inside the wire is a whole different story.
As an NCO I had no problem correcting an issue, I have corrected reserve officers who go into places with out a uniform top, I was in civilian clothes at the time and called this individual over out of the publics view, id'd myself and let him know he was out of uniform. He didn't like it a bit, asked for my commander, and 1SG's numbers. I provided them and went on my way. I heard later from my commander about the call he got. Thie guy I had corrected was a 1LT and he told my commander I had embarrassed him in public by yelling at him about his uniform issues.
My commander ripped into him, one for being out of uniform and needing to be corrected, and for lying about me yelling. I don't yell about anything, I may not have much tact but I use it when necessary.
If it's someone from another branch and I don't know the regs for them I simply ask, 99% of the time they will tell me the reg and then correct themselves. I've made corrections on ROTC, JRROTC, and anyone else that needed one. If it's an officer it just takes tact, if they are wrong they normally fix the problem, but there will always be those that get irate for an NCO questioning them. You will never get away from those.
Now if you're out on mission I'm not gonna say a thing, unless it's extremely blatant, because I'm probably out of uniform myself, but back inside the wire is a whole different story.
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Col Joseph Lenertz
Well, I was responding to the question, "Would you..." and I said I generally wouldn't unless I were sure I were right, and I did it in the right way. You see, I was speaking for myself, as a Colonel. In a Joint environment, we're taught it's more important for the Services to achieve Unity of Effort for the Objective, and one idiot Colonel can blow that if they overreact to a uniform violation, especially if they don't know what the hell they're talking about. I experienced it at MNFI HQ and in DAC-PAK. Then it's so much more work repairing the relationship between the services and getting back on track for the fight at hand. Pisses me off just thinking about how easy it is for some idiot to screw the whole effort by dressing down the wrong Navy Commander for a freaking button. So I guess it's best for Colonels to let the NCO's do the uniform corrections. That's why I said I generally wouldn't.
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I sure have, SFC Michael Jackson, MBA.
It's part and parcel to being an NCO -- you are helping a servicemember be more professional by correcting an oversight on his or her part. Good leadership doesn't stop with a change of uniform.
In the worst possible case -- should you exceed your knowledge of the proper wear of another branch's uniform -- you will find yourself corrected and your own professional knowledge enhanced. Hopefully that will be done with the same level of professional courtesy you demonstrate when initially making your correction.
It's part and parcel to being an NCO -- you are helping a servicemember be more professional by correcting an oversight on his or her part. Good leadership doesn't stop with a change of uniform.
In the worst possible case -- should you exceed your knowledge of the proper wear of another branch's uniform -- you will find yourself corrected and your own professional knowledge enhanced. Hopefully that will be done with the same level of professional courtesy you demonstrate when initially making your correction.
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I got to watch my son to make an on-the-spot correction up at the PX Mall at Ft Joint Base Lewis-McChord (JBLM), WA, when my son had just gotten stationed there as a young Pvt.. He had some what the same response that SGT Erin Wilkins had.
"Dad, I can't do that. That soldier just had his cover hanging out his cargo pocket."
"And the pocket is unbuttoned I added. What would your Drill do if you had a button undone?"
So he walked up, snapped to attention, introduced himself, pointed out that he Green beret was hanging out a bit and that the pocket was unbuttoned.
The Special Forces Commander, made the correction, and shuck his hand, coining him for making the correction as a young Pvt trying to do the right thing.
When my son came back over to me, he was somewhere between needing to puke or piss himself. He was white as a ghost, shaking like a leaf, spittin' and sputtering how I had sat him up for failure.
On his heels was the Commanders Aide, a Major, to hand my son a $20 AAFEE gift card for the ONLY one that day to make an On the Spot to the Commander.
I introduced myself to the Aide as Dad, and I had sat my son. The Major saw me goad or prod my son over to make the correction, and shook my hand.
That was a pretty good father and son bonding time.
"Dad, I can't do that. That soldier just had his cover hanging out his cargo pocket."
"And the pocket is unbuttoned I added. What would your Drill do if you had a button undone?"
So he walked up, snapped to attention, introduced himself, pointed out that he Green beret was hanging out a bit and that the pocket was unbuttoned.
The Special Forces Commander, made the correction, and shuck his hand, coining him for making the correction as a young Pvt trying to do the right thing.
When my son came back over to me, he was somewhere between needing to puke or piss himself. He was white as a ghost, shaking like a leaf, spittin' and sputtering how I had sat him up for failure.
On his heels was the Commanders Aide, a Major, to hand my son a $20 AAFEE gift card for the ONLY one that day to make an On the Spot to the Commander.
I introduced myself to the Aide as Dad, and I had sat my son. The Major saw me goad or prod my son over to make the correction, and shook my hand.
That was a pretty good father and son bonding time.
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It would have to be something obvious like taking off our battle uniform top and tying it around our waist. The Army does not allow service members to do that and I am sure no other branch is allowed either but like others said, I would need to know the regulation.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
You are correct, no service is allowed to do that, as long as You know the regulation or its something none of us can do and some things sure do stick out as improper.
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MAJ Ronnie Reams
When i was in the Army and the WGBT got above a certain degree, we were allowed to, among other things, take our fatigue shirt off and tie around our waist. Of course, things may have changed and folks seem a lot more hyper about uniforms than we used to be.
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Don't really see a problem with correcting someone's out of regulation uniform. So long as you know the proper regulations for that branch and know they are in the wrong. If you are serving in a joint environment and feel uncomfortable doing it go to a senior enlisted in their branch to make the correction. But I believe it is our duty as NCO's to make sure our enlisted folks comply with uniform regulations. Unless of course you are in a deployed status in a hostile environment and don't have the opportunity to worry about such matters.
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I would! But only if I knee the uniform regulations of said military service. Me being a former Marine, have no trouble telling anyone that they look 'ate up from the ground up'...but I would probably comment on something as simple as Irish pennants, again my Marine Corps mentality if sort of hard to suppress. It will probably get me into trouble some day, but hopefully long after I have gotten my 20 year letter.
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