Posted on Dec 9, 2020
Would you obey an illegal or unconstitutional order?
59.5K
1.33K
550
113
109
4
What are your professional and personal views on the right and the duty of active and retired military to disobey illegal or unconstitutional orders? (Ref. UCMJ, Articles 90, 91, 92; and the Fourth Geneva Convention.)
For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?
Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....
e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?
Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....
e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
Edited 5 y ago
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 203
This question looks like a set up to bash Trump, but I am genuinely concerned about whether or not the US military of today has enough knowledge of the constitution and the doctrine of separation of powers to make a sensible and legal decision in such an instance. I know I am in “old guy“, but for me the answer is “No, I would not follow an illegal or unconstitutional order!” I would hope that at least some of our senior leader ship (and I don’t have much confidence, based on what I’ve seen of late, that very many are of like mind) would feel the same way.
(4)
(0)
1st, we HAD an illegitimate sitting"POTUS", a man not o ly not natural born, as per the Constitution, but not even an US citizen, & all efforts to oppose him & his unlawful orders & acts were treated as CRIMES, indtead of being properly investigated, & evidence heard, which tells me those asking this question, now, do not WANT the truth here; the way it's worded says they want the narrative. Well, I can't & won't give it to them. We now have a 2nd illegitimate régime in place: a senile old man incapable of rationally dicarging the duties, & a NON- citizen (per the correct reading of the 14th A on citizenship) masquerading as VPOTUS. Obeying them is to betray the very Constitution to which we now sed to take our oaths, not to mention disobeying the higher laws of Yhwh God! These are people following & pushing the anti-Constitutional, anti- God, Satanic agenda, whom I cannot, in good conscience, obey under any circumstances. As an officer, the UCMJ required me to not follow such orders, had I been given such. As a citizen & Christian I must obey God's law when there is a conflict, & where the Bible isn't entirely clear on a specific issue, for example the jabs called "vaccines" erroneously, I revert to my professional training & experience & the Holy Spirit's guidance. The bottom line is no, Icould & would not obey unlawful orders, however, I would discern which "side" was telling the truth!
(5)
(1)
MSgt Gilbert Jones
PO1 Timothy Strunk - Sorry, you must be getting all your information from trump, Fox News, or other right wing groups. Obama was never charged with doing anything wrong and it was proven that he was born in HI.
(0)
(0)
MSgt Gilbert Jones
LTJG Sandra Smith - How did you get into the service LTJG, and become an officer at that. I feel sorry for anyone who may have served under you. You don't know your head from your ass.
(0)
(0)
CPO Kurt Baschab
Sadly many Young Men and women do not even know about Nuernberg,
I was Shocked by how many had never even read the United States Constitution, or the Bill Of Rights.
when I asked them what they knew about these documents, they were told by there teachers it was not important, to know, or understand .
that the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights were outdated Racist documents that were written by rich old White men.
that the United States Constitution should be replaced and gotten rid of , Luckily that not what they Believed.
what I started doing was purchasing pocket Constitution, and giving them out to anyone who wanted them to read, I use to challenge my young sailors, by telling them you took a Otha to protect and defend the united states Constitution, don't you think you should at least read it.
I was Shocked by how many had never even read the United States Constitution, or the Bill Of Rights.
when I asked them what they knew about these documents, they were told by there teachers it was not important, to know, or understand .
that the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights were outdated Racist documents that were written by rich old White men.
that the United States Constitution should be replaced and gotten rid of , Luckily that not what they Believed.
what I started doing was purchasing pocket Constitution, and giving them out to anyone who wanted them to read, I use to challenge my young sailors, by telling them you took a Otha to protect and defend the united states Constitution, don't you think you should at least read it.
(1)
(0)
In the present case,we know this person has flawed view of what has happened. I would not follow him at any cost. Those that choose to do so are entitled to their opinions. Being a sore loser, just shows how much he wanted to follow in Hitlers steps. We have never had a dictator and most agree, never will. Our constitution guarantees that freedom is for all not just the rich.
(4)
(0)
Suspended Profile
Take a good hard look today.... POTUS has promised to go door2door to harangue people to accept an UNapproved vaccine, has threatened to go door2door to CONFISCATE privately owned arms, violating at a minimum the 2nd and 4th Articles of the Bill Of Rights. I would call THAT Dictatorship...
MSgt Gilbert Jones
SPC Svanoe, before coming on here and spouting your lies, get your facts straight. People will be going door to door to give shots to those who are unable to go to places where shots are available or unable because of health reasons. People are dying, all over this country because of stupid people spraying lies like you.
(0)
(0)
"... I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same ..." 1965, no expiration date.
For those currently serving it applies most specifically.
To obey an unconstitutional order would violate my oath; to obey an illegal order would violate my moral code.
For those currently serving it applies most specifically.
To obey an unconstitutional order would violate my oath; to obey an illegal order would violate my moral code.
(3)
(0)
The only reason I can see someone asking this question in the current times is to stir the pot and cause a mess. As a “civilian supporter” it really isn’t your position to ask any military personnel Retired or Active duty whether or not they would obey a “legal or unconstitutional order” unless you are trying to do so. In my honest opinion. Who are you really working for and what’s your motivation behind this question?
(3)
(0)
NEVER!! It happened to me in June 1976 at Camp Zama Japan. I had a SGM who thought he was God. A E-9 that was a idiot!! I am preparing to clear post for my ETS and the SGM tells me to get a haircut!! My is within legal limits so I ignore him!! A few days later he says I told you to get a haircut, I reply my hair is legal, I am NOT getting a haircut!! He then gives me a Direct Order to get a haircut!! I ignore again as the order is ILLEGAL!! So I get sent to see my CO a Major. He reads the Article 15 to me. Asks me if I have any questions. I say Yes I have questions and facts. #1 your hair is longer than mine Sir!! He says put your cap on and turn around then agrees his hair is longer than mine! what else do you have? I asked what war are we fighting?? He says we are not at war, Why?? I ask if he knows his General Orders. The lightbulb comes on!! He says grab that half of the Article 15, he grabs the other and tears it up!! He says wait in the 1SG office till released and to tell Top he wants to see the SGM!! The SGM got wrote up!
(3)
(0)
We are not talking some easy to perceive here like killing bound prisoners or woman and children. If you think it's a bad order press the person giving it. If they falter, it's probably a bad order. Now anyone obeying a 'Bad' order had better not come back later and say "I was just following orders." It's too late then. We have the UCMJ, our military values and of course the Geneva convention to help guide us. And never forget your heart and gut. I've disobeyed a couple of direct orders in my time. I've still got my rank and retirement.............
(3)
(0)
the Answer is simple I would Not Knowingly Obey A Unlawful or Un-Constitutional Order.
so How do you tell what is a Lawful and Unlawful order?
what is Constitutional and Un-Constitutional Order?
answer
read and understand the Declaration OF INDEPENDENCE , THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION , THE BILL OF RIGHT, AND THE FEDERAL LIST AND ANTI FEDERAL LIST, BE ABLE TO ASK AND ANSWER THE 5 (W) THE WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE , AND WHY., THESE DOCUMENTS WERE WRITTEN AND MORE.
READ THE BIBLE FOR MORALE CLARITY , FOR WHAT IS RIGHT AND WROUNG.
READ AND UNDERSTAND THE UCMJ
THESE DOCUMENTS WILL GIVE YOU THE Moral Clarity from what is right and WROUNG .WHAT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER, AND WHAT IS A UN-CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER, WHAT IS A LAWFUL ORDER, AND WHAT IS A UNLAWFUL ORDER. REMEBER YOU TOOK A OTHA TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION FROM BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC THREATS. YOU DID NOT TAKE A OTHA TO PROTECT ANY SINGLE PRESIDENT, OR POLTICAL PARTY. ONLY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.
so How do you tell what is a Lawful and Unlawful order?
what is Constitutional and Un-Constitutional Order?
answer
read and understand the Declaration OF INDEPENDENCE , THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION , THE BILL OF RIGHT, AND THE FEDERAL LIST AND ANTI FEDERAL LIST, BE ABLE TO ASK AND ANSWER THE 5 (W) THE WHO, WHAT, WHEN, WHERE , AND WHY., THESE DOCUMENTS WERE WRITTEN AND MORE.
READ THE BIBLE FOR MORALE CLARITY , FOR WHAT IS RIGHT AND WROUNG.
READ AND UNDERSTAND THE UCMJ
THESE DOCUMENTS WILL GIVE YOU THE Moral Clarity from what is right and WROUNG .WHAT IS A CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER, AND WHAT IS A UN-CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER, WHAT IS A LAWFUL ORDER, AND WHAT IS A UNLAWFUL ORDER. REMEBER YOU TOOK A OTHA TO PROTECT AND DEFEND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION FROM BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC THREATS. YOU DID NOT TAKE A OTHA TO PROTECT ANY SINGLE PRESIDENT, OR POLTICAL PARTY. ONLY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AND THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION.
(3)
(0)
Read This Next


UCMJ
Martial Law
Election 2020
Civil Affairs
Orders
