Posted on Dec 9, 2020
Would you obey an illegal or unconstitutional order?
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What are your professional and personal views on the right and the duty of active and retired military to disobey illegal or unconstitutional orders? (Ref. UCMJ, Articles 90, 91, 92; and the Fourth Geneva Convention.)
For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?
Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....
e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?
Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....
e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
UCMJ
Martial Law
Election 2020
Civil Affairs
Orders
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 210
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It’sJanuary 6th and you are a Police Officer. You are ordered to open fire to protect Congress?
WELL?
WELL?
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CPO Kurt Baschab
MSgt Gilbert Jones - All I am Pointing Out Is the American news media,
the Elected officials Lying, Cheating, Deceiving, Double Standard ways. all though out the
year 2020, the Elected Democratic Officials supported and encouraged there Democratic supporters , ie : BLM, ANTIFA , to go out RIOT, LOOT, AND Burn DOWN CITYS. TO ATTACK ANY AMERICAN CITIZNS WHO OPENLY DISAGREED WITH THE DEMOCRTIC PARTYS political policy's and agenda.
Sadly America 1ST Un-Elected Vice President, that is Currently the worst Vice President along with many other Elected Democratic Officials, were encouraging there supporters to go out and attack Law Enforcement Officers , to attack and burn anyone inside Federal Buildings and court House, telling them not to worry they would bail them out and help with defense funds, and the elected democratic officials did this believing it would hurt President Trump. yet the help the Democratic party in spinning this lie, the NEWS MEDIA CALLS THESE ATTACKS, as these CITY's were BURNING a peaceful protest. as the BLM/ANTFA VERBALLY , PHYSICALLY ATTACTED the City, State, Federal Law enforcement Officer, Federal Employers , the American News Media and Democratic party says it a Peaceful protest . there was absolute nothing peaceful about it. what happen on Jan 06 was Tragic, but it was nothing compared to what was happing in Portland Oregon, Seattle WA, and the other 20 American City's that BURN in the year of 2020 with the help of elected Democratic Officials . all that Violence was encouraged by the elected democratic officials, rich donors, American News Media, Democratic faceless Bureaucrats, that the elected democratic officials have weaponized, to attack any American citizen who a threat to there political power and wealth.
it Continues, the Elected Democratic Officials Screams No one is above the LAW!
No one Except Joe Biden and his SON, No One Except Hillary Clinton and Family
No One Except Lying Cheating Deceiving ERIC SWALWELL , Who GAVE AMERIAN SECRETS TO A CHINSE SPY.
NO ONE EXCEPT Democratic GOV Of VA RALPH NORTHAM WHO wore BLACKFACE and a KKK ROBE , and REPULICAN OFFICALS caught doing this, it would have destroyed them, but he a Democratic GOV, SO Facebook, Twitter, Google, and the American News media bury it till after the election. I could Go on.
what Happen on Jan 06 was not a attempt to overthrow the American Government, if it was , it was the worst plan ever. I believe it was purposely started by the Democratic operative in the FBI, to silence free speech, by making a example of Conservatives.
the Message from the Elected Democratic Officials is if you support the right Political party, you can go out and get Verbally, Physically Violent, you can Riot, Loot, Burn down a city. but if you go against the democratic Party Political policy's and agendas', the elected Democratic officials will have you Investigated, Arrested, Prosecuted, by of federal government many Federal Agency's, Remember there is over 650 federal Agency's, each of these agency has there on federal law enforcement department. so the elected Democratic Officials just calls one of these Federal agency's to investigate you. they will have one or more Investigate you, until they get a conviction, or they bankrupted you , or both. the elected Democratic officials do not believe in the American people individual Constitutional, Rights and freedoms.
the Elected officials Lying, Cheating, Deceiving, Double Standard ways. all though out the
year 2020, the Elected Democratic Officials supported and encouraged there Democratic supporters , ie : BLM, ANTIFA , to go out RIOT, LOOT, AND Burn DOWN CITYS. TO ATTACK ANY AMERICAN CITIZNS WHO OPENLY DISAGREED WITH THE DEMOCRTIC PARTYS political policy's and agenda.
Sadly America 1ST Un-Elected Vice President, that is Currently the worst Vice President along with many other Elected Democratic Officials, were encouraging there supporters to go out and attack Law Enforcement Officers , to attack and burn anyone inside Federal Buildings and court House, telling them not to worry they would bail them out and help with defense funds, and the elected democratic officials did this believing it would hurt President Trump. yet the help the Democratic party in spinning this lie, the NEWS MEDIA CALLS THESE ATTACKS, as these CITY's were BURNING a peaceful protest. as the BLM/ANTFA VERBALLY , PHYSICALLY ATTACTED the City, State, Federal Law enforcement Officer, Federal Employers , the American News Media and Democratic party says it a Peaceful protest . there was absolute nothing peaceful about it. what happen on Jan 06 was Tragic, but it was nothing compared to what was happing in Portland Oregon, Seattle WA, and the other 20 American City's that BURN in the year of 2020 with the help of elected Democratic Officials . all that Violence was encouraged by the elected democratic officials, rich donors, American News Media, Democratic faceless Bureaucrats, that the elected democratic officials have weaponized, to attack any American citizen who a threat to there political power and wealth.
it Continues, the Elected Democratic Officials Screams No one is above the LAW!
No one Except Joe Biden and his SON, No One Except Hillary Clinton and Family
No One Except Lying Cheating Deceiving ERIC SWALWELL , Who GAVE AMERIAN SECRETS TO A CHINSE SPY.
NO ONE EXCEPT Democratic GOV Of VA RALPH NORTHAM WHO wore BLACKFACE and a KKK ROBE , and REPULICAN OFFICALS caught doing this, it would have destroyed them, but he a Democratic GOV, SO Facebook, Twitter, Google, and the American News media bury it till after the election. I could Go on.
what Happen on Jan 06 was not a attempt to overthrow the American Government, if it was , it was the worst plan ever. I believe it was purposely started by the Democratic operative in the FBI, to silence free speech, by making a example of Conservatives.
the Message from the Elected Democratic Officials is if you support the right Political party, you can go out and get Verbally, Physically Violent, you can Riot, Loot, Burn down a city. but if you go against the democratic Party Political policy's and agendas', the elected Democratic officials will have you Investigated, Arrested, Prosecuted, by of federal government many Federal Agency's, Remember there is over 650 federal Agency's, each of these agency has there on federal law enforcement department. so the elected Democratic Officials just calls one of these Federal agency's to investigate you. they will have one or more Investigate you, until they get a conviction, or they bankrupted you , or both. the elected Democratic officials do not believe in the American people individual Constitutional, Rights and freedoms.
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MSgt Gilbert Jones
CPO Kurt Baschab - CPO Baschab, where did you get all the crazy information you said above. Everything you said came from trump, and green and others in the republican party who every time they open their mouths tell lies. Why is it the republican party have to cheat to try to win elections? Now they are trying make laws to stop citizens from being able to vote or not count their votes. I predict that within the next ten years as things are heading, we will be in a full blown civil war because of the republican party, hate groups, and trump. I'm just sorry I won't be around!
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Yes, of course, (but for instance "as a means to ..." IS prejudicial) MIKENEW.COM for the result of Pres Clinton's unconstitutional order in 1995.
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If someone's does, you better have solid proof or evidence backing you up. Unlawful orders are incredibly rare. I've seen it once in 1094. My battalion was getting ready to deploy and a medic refused to go. He said it was an unlawful order because it was the UN in command. Well...he ended up not going to Macedonia, instead he went home, chaptered out. I think today it would be hard to actually have unlawful orders. There is so much micro managing in the military that someone giving that unlawful order probably would not take it and question it in private to the officer or higher ranked NCO.
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Sgt Greg Nowark
Was that mikenew.com? (I've only been following it since 1995, and the UCMJ panel preventing the Constitution as evidence foreshadowed current events).
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SFC(P) (Join to see)
not as rare as you might think.. I'm dealing with the consequences of one right now..
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Illegal orders are clear to even those giving them, that is why they are generally given in questionable or contentious situations; just one man's opinion. They is no legal recourse to be taken against a person refusing an illegal order, THAT is why they are even pressed
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How about the act of a sitting President ordering military personnel to unlawfully entering hoe to confiscate firearms? Would anyone one here disobey that?
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Sgt Greg Nowark
Yes, (too old to have to 'disobey' the order, but not too old to resist its execution).
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Suspended Profile
If that order is ever given America will be in dire straights, there are more than enough groups to make real trouble and idiots like Swalwell threatening to use nukes on American gun owners surely makes it a LOT worse... AND it's unConstitutional to boot. Hmm
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Everyone will say "no", but recent events indicate half of you would do so with a smile...
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SFC Michael Hasbun
Capitol riot: Videos shows men beat, drag officer into savage mob
New video from the Capitol riot investigation shows one of the most violent assaults on police from January 6.» Subscribe to WUSA9: https://bit.ly/2lO8e2FFOL...
SGT Jerry Hoy maybe you can find him in this crowd?
Or did you not know there was video footage of them beating that cop?
https://youtu.be/ChLoiStjaZc
Or did you not know there was video footage of them beating that cop?
https://youtu.be/ChLoiStjaZc
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SFC Michael Hasbun
SGT Jerry Hoy oh boy, we've arrived at "whatabout'ism!".
What's next? Clinton's emails?
What's next? Clinton's emails?
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Everyone will say "no", but recent events indicate half of you would do so with a smile...
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Suspended Profile
PO1 Jd Harwood - Agree, especially since they were NOT detonated and the actual 1/6 "break in" was a COP opening the doors and waving people through. The video was pretty plain... all the way up the stairs... and those guys photographed breaking an outside window? Have not found a pic of THEM inside... very suspicious.
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Leave it to a civilian to bring politics into the military. Take the stick out of the pot and quit stirring.
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It's easy to say I wouldn't. That was pounded into us. But, that requires time to consider and judge if the order is legal. Without that time, I probably would, because I trusted the person giving the order. Building trust through the ranks is underappreciated. I worked under one officer who I trusted so thoroughly, I only questioned how, not whether
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LCpl Kenny Kellar
I re-read the question. My answer still stands. I can't see myself ever committing violence on a helpless population. Now comes the question of "helpless". Would I shoot at someone throwing rocks? Maybe. Then, the issue is protection of my mates
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Suspended Profile
You should read up on Mi Lai and Lt. Caley...
LCpl Kenny Kellar
I did, it was integral to our ethics instruction in boot camp, along with Nuremburg
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It is entirely possible that, in 2024, Donald Trump could win another Presidential Election (President Grover Cleveland did something similar in the 1892 Presidential Election). The Democrats now cry "Stolen Election!" and, in January of 2025, as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act.
Now what will you do?
Now what will you do?
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Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis
It's interesting to analyze the situation when the shoe is on the other foot.
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MSgt Gilbert Jones
It is really funny when republications when the elections, they don't ever cry illegal election, but when a democrat wins, it's always illegal. When Al Gore won the election by votes, republications cried illegal, even though Gore won. When Clinton won, again by over three milllion the same old story. It is really a shame the republican party has to feel the need to always cheat and lie in every election. Is their self-esteem that low that they have to stoop so low? I don't say some democrats don't lie, or stretch the truth some times, but nothing like republications.
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