Posted on Dec 9, 2020
Would you obey an illegal or unconstitutional order?
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What are your professional and personal views on the right and the duty of active and retired military to disobey illegal or unconstitutional orders? (Ref. UCMJ, Articles 90, 91, 92; and the Fourth Geneva Convention.)
For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?
Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....
e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?
Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....
e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
UCMJ
Martial Law
Election 2020
Civil Affairs
Orders
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 210
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Don't falll into this BullShit hole started by this person. Move on to the next question.
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No and No. I believe that any active duty military that took part in the 1/6 attack on the capital should be tried for treason and given a dishonorable discharge, I also believe that Mr. Trump incited a riot and should be held legally responsible. It was a dishonorable thing for the Commander and Chief to have done.
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CPL Bruce Ailiff
Sgt, you are a useful idiot and do not know what the oath that you swore meant! You would definitely be considered an enemy within! You should be Court Marshalled!
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Sgt Christine Magnan
Just curious, do you know the history and the reason not to obey an illegal or unconstitutional command? If you don't, please do some research and then come back and tell me what an idiot I am. Hint: Mỹ Lai
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Suspended Profile
No. We swore an oath to defend the constitution not the whims of unethical would be tyrants. If your orders violate the constitution or are known to be unlawful then report it to higher.
SSG Edward Tilton
So you would defy your orders and betray the defense of the Congress. You are the enemy
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CPL Bruce Ailiff
Defense of the Congress! The Congress is the enemy! You better wake up and stop being a useful idiot!
This site is really a propaganda piece of shit! Damn the US military is now full of idiots!
This site is really a propaganda piece of shit! Damn the US military is now full of idiots!
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Difficult example (sitting U.S. President issue); but in such a case, it would be foolhardy for someone like myself, a SSG to decide it's an illegal or unconstitutional order. One MUST presume that the Joint Chiefs, in concert with the SJA and/or JAG, as well as the DOJ AG, had already hashed out whether or not the order was legal and Constitutional.
Of course if in that scenario, or even other event if a LT, CPT, etc were to order subordinates to fire upon a crowd, that COULD cause an NCO or even a soldier to question or even challenge that kind of order. If one looks at the prison episode involving the WV Reservists who brutalized prisoners, ANY soldier SHOULD have challenged an order or even an act by ANY other service member.
One thing about the Navy training I received - there were a LOT of examples given of what constitutes and unlawful order, and the action that could, or should be taken. Also included were the potential remifications if you were WRONG in a challenge or disobeying.
This is where NCO's must ... absolutely MUST show their character one way or the other; but ESPECIALLY in the case of an illegal order. Also, one muist NEVER let personal, or political views give favor to an illegal/improper order.
Of course if in that scenario, or even other event if a LT, CPT, etc were to order subordinates to fire upon a crowd, that COULD cause an NCO or even a soldier to question or even challenge that kind of order. If one looks at the prison episode involving the WV Reservists who brutalized prisoners, ANY soldier SHOULD have challenged an order or even an act by ANY other service member.
One thing about the Navy training I received - there were a LOT of examples given of what constitutes and unlawful order, and the action that could, or should be taken. Also included were the potential remifications if you were WRONG in a challenge or disobeying.
This is where NCO's must ... absolutely MUST show their character one way or the other; but ESPECIALLY in the case of an illegal order. Also, one muist NEVER let personal, or political views give favor to an illegal/improper order.
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I thought Twitter was for anti trumpers. This is a loaded question. No one is going to answer this. Plus, someone would have to know for sure that the election was fair and secure. Blocked investigations and blocked lawsuits don’t really help to gain public trust. All military personnel have to obey lawful orders. If the election is faulty, then martial law and insurrection act would be lawful orders.
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No I wouldn’t obey an illegal order given by an outgoing president just to overturn election results he or she didn’t like. That’s why they are free elections and not sham elections like our adversaries have. That’s an open act of treason no matter the rank,
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CPL Bruce Ailiff
If you believe that our elections are true and note stolen, you do not deserve the rank you wear! We do have elections like 3rd World Countries! Now go drink your kool aid!
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The question is both specious and answers itself.? If an order is illegal, unconstitutional, or both, the order MUST be disobeyed. Since when did our military become the political arm of an unbalanced, undemocratic would be autocrat?
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