Posted on Dec 9, 2020
Would you obey an illegal or unconstitutional order?
59.5K
1.33K
550
113
109
4
What are your professional and personal views on the right and the duty of active and retired military to disobey illegal or unconstitutional orders? (Ref. UCMJ, Articles 90, 91, 92; and the Fourth Geneva Convention.)
For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?
Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....
e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
For instance, in the event a sitting U.S. President loses an election in the electoral college, and as a means to stay in office declares martial law or invokes the 1807 Insurrection Act, should you obey such an order? Would you individually be willing to comply?
Let's have a frank and friendly discussion on this vital topic....
e.g., https://www.witf.org/2020/06/02/president-trump-says-hell-deploy-military-to-states-if-they-dont-stop-violent-protests/
UCMJ
Martial Law
Election 2020
Civil Affairs
Orders
Edited 5 y ago
Posted 5 y ago
Responses: 203
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
SINCE I TOOK THE OATH TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION THE OF UNITED STATES THE PRESIDENT IS STILL THE COMMANDER WHETHER YOU LIKE HIM OR NOT SO I THINK YOU HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO OBEY BUT THE VIOLENCE GET WORST EVERYDAY SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE THE BALLS TO SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
Re the martial law or Insurrection Act, after I do a quick coordination with my local JAG officer, who will probably tell me the orders and declarations are illegal. Assuming he/she is correct, I would disobey all orders I consider illegal and/or unconstitutional. But this is what I always have done over my 28+ year career.
One could argue the case that EVERY order from above is illegal. This can turn into a CF of the first magnitude rapidly. How does anyone know who is loyal to the UCMJ, the Constitution, etc.? A myriad of problems will arise.
Of course, most of the foregoing could be made moot if the JCS and the Chief JAG officer agree the situation is illegal and unconstitutional, and then issue this opinion to all Combatant and Area Commanders. The real "rub" here is the SECDEF. The SECDEF must issue the order version of the JCS "opinion." to not comply with the President. Is he/she loyal to his/her oath of office or to the President? Things to ponder. Someone should write a book.
One could argue the case that EVERY order from above is illegal. This can turn into a CF of the first magnitude rapidly. How does anyone know who is loyal to the UCMJ, the Constitution, etc.? A myriad of problems will arise.
Of course, most of the foregoing could be made moot if the JCS and the Chief JAG officer agree the situation is illegal and unconstitutional, and then issue this opinion to all Combatant and Area Commanders. The real "rub" here is the SECDEF. The SECDEF must issue the order version of the JCS "opinion." to not comply with the President. Is he/she loyal to his/her oath of office or to the President? Things to ponder. Someone should write a book.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
0
0
0
There is a foul odor of political persuasion entering the military. Might not follow an illegal order but let the politicians duke out what’s unconstitutional. A lot of them don’t seem to know.
(0)
(0)
0
0
0
As sitting President Trump was following his duties regarding existing riots. That said, his position ends at the date and time specified by law. Beyond that specific "example" be ready to take what comes. If an order is unconstitutional/illegal protest it. If your protest is overruled, you have a choice UCMJ actions may be full no matter what you do.
(0)
(0)
Read This Next
Continue with Facebook 
Continue with Google