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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Feb 16, 2016
SSG Lon Watson
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SPC Cesar Freytes
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I see you say this shit after you retired um from the Army. May I suggest you redo your PHD thesis.
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SPC Brian Stephens
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I did not get a nice reception when I checked into Fort Sill. A screaming and angry Staff Sergeant gave us socks, underwear and T-shirts at Reception before we went to real Basic in September 1988. That first day if Basic my sleeping mat unraveled during the rush to get off the bus and race with all our gear to the pad. After breaking from the herd and getting my stuff I could do nothing right the rest of the day. Four drill sergeants rode my ass ALL DAY LONG. I was so bad I went on KP with another platoon I did not know who watched me come in. But I made friends and got support which was probably unexoected. But it was a very good reprieve. Things evened out. I even became squad leader, graduated, and had a FANTASTIC posting and career in a firing platoon.
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SPC Steven Depuy
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I have no idea what goes on today, my experience is 43 years old. I know in 76, Army basic training was a joke. But we did have to do guard duty at the Rusty Nail at Fort Knox, a Marine tanker bar on post, and honestly, I never saw a lot there that overly impressed me either. But the draft had just ended, and maybe all the services at that point were struggling to fill boots, I don't know. I have always had respect for someone who made it through Paris Island, but that does not make them a demi God, just someone who could suck it up for a few months and endure the brutal experience.
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SPC Mitch Saret
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There are two main differences between the USMC and the Army. First is size. The Marines are just a corp, the Army has many corps size units. Se one is mission. The phrase "every Marine a rifleman" really does apply. That goes for women, too. Ever notice the Marine Corps has no medics? Navy corpsman are assigned to infantry units.

I did army OSUT at Ft. Benning and it was just as you describe (Charlie 7-1). The one week reception at Ft. Jackson was way more laid back. This is another difference...there are only two places for Marine Corps boot camp and the reception station is the same place. The group in my reception outfit had people going all over for basic.

I also did jump school at Benning (44th Company, Death From Above!). And it was even more indoctrinating.

With so many non-combat oriented positions, the Army has to be different in training.
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SPC Vonnie Jones
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Sometimes comparisons is not good. When ever you compare your self with someone else (especially someone you admire you will come up short). You sited all the pro and con with army training. Also mabe you should look at retention numbers of the two forces? You cant say one is better than the other until you factor in the retention, rate, promotion rate, usmj rate even suicides rate before you lable one a successful at making a fighting machine. Comparing the to is not apples to apples. Ever corp is different, but the question I have is are they effective? I am sure the aswer is yes. They reason you go army, navy are air force is because you don't want to be a marine. Best regards
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SFC Michael Arabian
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We can all sit here and pat ourselves on the back and boast about what we did/ do for any branch of the service. We even put one branch above another as long as we served in that branch we are putting over. But to sit here and say one branch is better because you read about it is just wrong. I served 26 years active duty in the Army, My father served 14 years in the Marine Corps before passing away as a result of Vietnam, I read book and tried to find out as much as I could about the Marines and my father, does that make me an expert on the Marines No. what that make me is a Marine Corp brat, who later joined the Army and became a expert in they need of me at the time
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PO1 Michael Bruner
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Shoot, I'm ex-Navy. There was nothing reassuring when I arrived at "Great Mistakes". It was non-stop screaming for at least the first four weeks. What has the Army turned into?
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SPC Nathaniel Rheinstein
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I recall my Cav training at Benning not being very friendly
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SGM Senior Maintenance Supervisor
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Boot camp must have changed since I attended...
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SPC Gary Mckeown
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And he’s still a leg
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SPC Cesar Freytes
SPC Cesar Freytes
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Wind dummy
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TSgt Rudy Adame
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Agreed
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SFC Thomas Howes
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I don't know when you went to boot. I went in the 70's and sand hill was kick ass boot and inf school.
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SrA Richard Birdsong
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The Army sounds like the air force. You march in basic and not much after that
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PFC Gerald Bailey
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I feel that Army has gotten softer since 1982 when I went to OSUT in Fort Sill, OK. I still believe that I could've been an even better soldier had I done 10 weeks of basic training instead 8, and 7 weeks AIT instead of 5. I'm a cannon crewman.
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SSG Environmental Specialist
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I would say if you are basing this off of say Ft. Jackson standards you may be correct, but if you are basing this off of OSUT you are wrong. I agree that the non combat basic needs an overhaul, heck the army is actually overhauling OSUT as well making it longer. I know when Ft. Knox had both OSUT and regular basic the standard was pretty high, but the army decide to ship TRADOC training off post.
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SPC Brad Pratt
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Having served on active duty (‘89-‘96) army. I observed the quota push in the early ‘90’s. Don’t get me wrong some of those leaders I would have followed to hell & back. But I’ve had NCOIC’s that I couldn’t understand (broken English). Other times as a corporal, I have to refresh (E-7’s & an E-8) SGT’s on D & C. Because they spent their entire career in a MEDAC & wore civilian close to work. And never what real army was (#FieldUnit)
AIR ASSAULT
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SPC Cesar Freytes
SPC Cesar Freytes
6 y
Wow your English is not the best don't criticize others, and you have spell check at your disposal
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SGT Air Defense Enhanced Early Warning System Operator
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Hang my head if this pussy-fyd crap has become acceptable behavior in the Army. I often think back to my basic training in 1975 at Knox. Old wooden barracks. And bless those Vietnam grunt DI's. They kicked our asses ever day.
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CPT Air Defense Artillery Officer
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Yawn, multiple factual inaccuracies in this from the Army side. Apples and oranges at best.
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Sgt Special Reaction Team (3RT) Member
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So much butthurt.

The Army does a lot of things right in my opinion. What a lot of people fail to see is the “Sh*tbaggery” that a lot of marines fall into once they hit the fleet.
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A1C Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape (SERE)
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You lost me when you said “Air Borne is an elite school” and “Drill is just as important as PT” Is that really the best use of our time?
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SPC Cesar Freytes
SPC Cesar Freytes
6 y
Shut up your Air Force Well slap you when we need shit and a newby Air Force at that.
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A1C Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape (SERE)
A1C (Join to see)
6 y
Sorry, I didn’t mean to hurt your feelings. SPC Cesar Freytes
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MSG Robert Ford
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I see your point... but the army is much bigger and train in basic for over 200 career fields... the marine basically make all there people be a infantry soldier... we have special training after basic to horn the skill necessary for the career field you selected... don't fix what not broke....
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Cpl William Battles
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Semper Fi
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Lt Col George Roll
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I started reading Leatherneck Magazine when I was 12 or 14. My plan was to join the Corps when I graduated highschool. My Dad and Uncle both pushed me to join the AF for the "technical training. I did so but at the end of four years the AF offered Jump Scchool and Combat Control Career field.
During the next 26 years I had great oppertunities to work with and train with Navy SEALS, complete SCUBA and HALO/ HAHO training work with the British and Australian SAS. The German GSG9, The Danish Yeager Corps and many other Special Operations Forces. I had a great career but still wish somewhere in there I had served in the USMC.would have wanted to have been in Force Recon or MARSOC.
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SPC Tony Ross
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Excellent article but the Marines are, for all intents and purposes, an elite group. They are meant to be an infantry on steroids. They are the Green Berets, Airborne and all other special forces rolled into one. They are Spartans....the 300.
The army is like one responder said, “close to a million” whereas the Marines less than 200K. They are trained different to be different.
As a soldier, my Marine cousin and I used to take jabs at each other but there was no one I would trust more to have my back, even now as veterans .
Marines have a different mentality even before recruitment. They volunteer for that training and any man or woman wearing that EGA has my respect.
The Army may seem softer but their training covers the aspects that compliment the Marines and what all branches bring to the table make our military complete.
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SFC Career Counselor
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I am a Marine and retired Soldier, very well written, hit the nail on the head. I was Seen as an old fashioned leader in the Army.
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MSG Scott McBride
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Well said. I concur with this spot in assessment.
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SGT Patrick Adamek
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The Marines are looking for a few good men, the Army just needs as many people as they can push thru training
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SSG Joseph VanDyck
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When GEN Shinseki took the black beret away from the Rangers and made it a "leg beret" because he saw some squared away 75th Rangers at a JFK SWC memorial and he figured, wrongly, that the beret made the soldier so lets give it to everyone so everyone will be squared away. This fits nicely into your statements on mentality between soldiers and marines. You are also correct that indoc in the USMC is one of the things that makes a private in the USMC better than a US Army private. Respect. That is why 1st units receiving newly minted soldiers are bitching about shit bag privates. The Army is reaping what it sowed over the last 15 to 20 years. Having been a reservist DS and working with both reservist and active duty drills, I have learned 2 things. 1) Prior service Marines make the best soldiers. 2) Prior service Marine DI's make the best US Army DS's. Now, I do recognize that there are exceptions to everything. Like you stated, Rangers/Infantry/Airborne/SF/CAG are the exceptions that I know of. There are also other exceptions to where the USMC isn't always the best either and they have their shitbags also. Just my 2 cents.
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Cpl Bill Johnson
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Well said, Ssgt. Everything you said is important, but the most important was this: " the Army trains, the Marines indoctrinate"
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MAJ Mark Anderson
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Concur. I appreciate how Marines are riflemen first, their assigned duty specialty second. I believe all Marines CAN be riflemen as a result but not all Soldiers can and do.
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SSG Lon Watson
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You folks that keep hating on my article, thanks it’s almost to 100k views!
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SGT Mike Adams
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I guess this guy joined after the middle 70’s. Basic training was rough. I seen a dozen guys not make it through. However on 1980 I was yelling at one of the guys in my squad. He started crying, he said the drill sergeants didn’t even yell at them. He also mentions several hard core units. I thought my Calvary Regiment, the 11th ACR was a pretty hardcore outfit.
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Col James Cooke
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Well thought out critique, SSG Watson! Any one who gets upset over a critique needs to think real hard WHY he/she is getting upset or even angry. Then they are in a far better position to respond logically.
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SSG Wally Lawver
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Correct. I am retired Army, but will always be a Marine.
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MAJ Steve Daugherty
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Good points and when I entered basic training in the Army in 1971 the DI’s were on our ass from the gitgo, but they were all combat veterans and they sincerely were trying to train us to survive the war in SE asia. They had all internalized that mission because of comrades they had already lost. And if you couldn’t adjust they had special training platoons that were almost Draculan in their training and they came out good soldiers or were deemed pretty worthless, back then you weren’t allowed to just quit because it hurt your feelings , But irregardless, where the rubber meets the road is Combat performance, is there a profound difference when the shooting starts? Has anyone ever evaluated this, as it would be more telling if successful training strategies than anecdotal impressions, though not to negate the importance of trained observation
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MSG Frank Kapaun
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Your point? If you want to be a Marine, join the USMC.
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SSG Bradley Fighting Vehicle System Maintainer
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I will have to say that the army has changed a lot. I spent 23 years in the army. But, when I joined, it wasn't like it is now. We were petrified of our drill instructors, all the way through AIT. We learned to respect our leaders and NCO's. I just recently retired and I could tell the difference in the type of soldiers the army is recruiting now, compared to 20 years ago. Now it is quantity not quality.
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1SG Retired
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I see that you've given this a great deal of thought. I believe that experience as an Army DS may have helped you reach different conclusions.
How many Army receptions did you observe, or participate in, to reach the conclusions about Army training?
I disagree with many of your assertions, and believe they lack an awareness of what actually happens during Army basic training.
I served as a DS, and am certain the experiences of my Soldiers wasn't what you described. I was the Detachment Sergeant for HHD, 82nd CM BN in 2001, when TRADOC implemented a standardized zero day. I personally observed and evaluated the initial implementation, and don't believe it was comforting, or otherwise as you described. Inprocessing and reception at the Reception Station, where the Soldiers get their initial issue and wait to ship to their unit may not match the reception at the Marine Corps, but that doesn't support the conclusions presented.
I don't disagree that the Marine Corps is more indoctrination, but disagree with the majority of your conclusions, based on my first hand experience.
I do agree that the Marine Corps has done a better job at teaching its history to recruits.
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SSG Lon Watson
SSG Lon Watson
>1 y
I went to drill sergeant school, shadowed drill sergeants, and boom! Had an accident in training (not my fault), was nearly killed! Woke up in a hospital and didn’t get to graduate.
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1SG Retired
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Cpl Rc Layne
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There is no such thing as rehabilitation. It is a myth in the field of Corrections. I believe what you are looking for is " behavior modification", which is real, and is the primary result of USMC Boot Camp. The recruits have gone from me to we in their thought processes.
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SFC Squad Leader
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Well duh. Soldiers are a different group. Hell from guard to reserves to active are a different group. Not bad...just different.

I was active for 6 years as paratrooper in the 82ND for quite some time. Now I'm a guardsman, they are both soldiers but completely different.

It's more of a willing to fight spirit in the Army to a "we're the best at war" mentality. Honestly running a support element I love guardsmen, in a battle please give me marines, or better rangers
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