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Command Post What is this?
Posted on Aug 3, 2017
SGT Joseph Gunderson
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MAJ Corporate Buyer
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First off, hazing can certainly be taken too far. When people get hurt in a way that weakens the unit, it's bad. We've seen this before but more often than not, it never gets that far. But what you described, by your own admission, seems more like your unit was trying to teach the FNG that can't keep his big mouth shut a lesson on what his role in the unit was. KP and TOC duty is not hazing. Those are things that have to happen. Smoke sessions can be taken too far but aren't bad in and of themselves. I'm guessing that in the end you were accepted by you peers not because you made it through some crucible, but because you kept your chin up and did what you were told and after a while they saw that this is a good guy. Big mouth and all. Had you resisted all the extra duty and become a pain in everyone's rear, you wouldn't have found yourself smoking and joking with the rest of the guys.
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SSgt Dan Rivett
SSgt Dan Rivett
8 y
I'm sorry Officers just don't understand unless they have been to one of the Academies or have been enlisted. Sorry
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MAJ Corporate Buyer
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8 y
SSgt Dan Rivett - You should've checked out my profile before posting.
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CW4 Brian Haas
CW4 Brian Haas
8 y
That was a pretty large generalization. All officers have gone through ROTC or OCS, etc. Trust me, they ALL deal with the same things in those.
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1LT Cadet
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Everyday at 1530 my nco would tell me to close the office door and get in front lean and rest. She would always ask what did I do wrong today? And what did I learn? Im a better soldier for it. Im not a whiny stereotype. I take pride in the fact I am a strong, confident Soldier before strong, confident woman.
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CSM Thomas McGarry
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I have an especial problem with hazing when it is used by those in charge as a tool to vent their internal prejudices against those in their charge such as what happened in the Marines at Parris Island.
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Let’s Be Real: Is it Hazing or Helping?
SP5 Norman McGill
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I'd say it was helping. It's a natural thing to check out the people around you to see who's ass you can beat or who can beat your ass. Happens everyday all over the world. No matter what happens you have to know if you can count on the guy next to you if and when you need it. The only way to find that out is to test him or her to find their reactions. Only then will you know if you can count on this person. They also have to know they can count on you too.
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SGT David T.
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My first unit was much the same sort of thing. I also have a bad habit of thinking for myself and being opinionated which are two traits that did not serve me well as a Private. However, it was a valuable learning experience for me. It turned out to be a great example of what not to do when I donned my stripes. I made it a point not to do that with my subordinates. I had this crazy notion that I should treat adults as adults. Shocking I know. I never used physical exercise as discipline tool (except in instances of APFT failures). I preferred the talking to people as an adult method and it worked well for the most part.

Many so called leaders always talk about being professional, but in nine years most I ran across were anything but. Of course there were some exceptions to that and I had a few great leaders as well. However, many lacked any modicum of people skills and demanded respect without earning it. Some screamed, cussed at, smoked for no reason, and berated their troops. I pity them because when they get out they will not be able to function in the civilian world.
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SSG Robert Perrotto
SSG Robert Perrotto
>1 y
I too utilized the talking like an adult method as well, sometimes it worked, most times it did not. Did I utilize PT as a tool, sometimes. But the best tool I ultilized was taking their time away. Your room a mess when I came to insoect, ok - not a problem, 1800 we will clean your room to standard, Come to work with filthy or unservicable uniform - cool beans - 1800 we will have a class on sewing and washing uniforms. fail to shave - thats alright - 1800 we will conduct classes on proper hygiene - after about 3 or 4 of these methods - they got the hint. The key to doing this method is you HAVE to be present, you cannot delegate it down.The other key - Break it down Barney style to them - fill out the 4856 correctly, make sure the corrective measures are clearly stated in the plan of action box.
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SSG Religious Affairs Ncoic
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An action taken become hazing because of the intent behind it. If there is no intent, it is hazing if it doesn't help anyone, it is hazing.
So I think it is better to still correct someone by making sure the punishment meets the crime.
Some people think being shouting at someone is part of being a great leader.
Au contraire, being a leader means you know when to use the tools at your disposition and not just because.
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Chef Benson K Saenger
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Its is both. Must earning respect. It cannot be handed to you. Train and prepare for the worst. Hazing is essential to character building and overall ethical growth. Politcal correctness has turned our future millenials into cry babies and nipple suckers.
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GySgt Ken Norwood
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Sorry to bust your bubble, but this was not hazing. You were put on work details that every other junior rank had been doing before you ever got there. Now it was your turn in the barrel. As far as being a big mouth, well, the professional Soldiers in your unit have no time for that garbage. I will assume you have cut out the big mouth crap as you matured into a more professional Soldier. As far as "being smoked" goes I believe your leaders were trying to get your attention and teach you some professionalism rather than send you in to the old man for an article 15... Just one old Gunny's opinion...
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SGT Joseph Gunderson
>1 y
Never really grew out of the big mouth. Did me well at some times, not so much at others.
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SSgt Dan Rivett
SSgt Dan Rivett
8 y
I just say one thing and it is that I would do anything to not go in front of the man for an article 15.
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SFC Greg Bruorton
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Joseph, that is a great write-up on your experiences through training and the ultimate reward of acceptance among your peers and superiors. I'm happy you stuck through all the hazing, as unnecessary as it seemed at the time, but you've proved your mettle and willingness to get the job done. Now that you are a bonafide sergeant all is "a go" in your career.
Greg
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SPC David Willis
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Like many have pointed out hazing can go too far. The minute the paddles and broom sticks come out you know you crossed the line. However I disagree with others that say its simply "corrective action" no its not, it is hazing, when Im standing in a hall way Im doing nothing that needs correction but Im still gonna be doing pushups until theres a puddle of sweat for me to mop up. The military (especially combat arms) isn't an organization that can just welcome you as a member with a day long orientation/training period. Im no shrink or professor but somehow my several month long initiation period in my first unit leading up to our deployment made it to where we would do anything for each other no matter what.
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