Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
President Trump followed the rules and his convictions. I can respect this. My problem is his condemnation of NFL players who take a knee to follow their convictions.
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SGT Richard Mitchell
I defend the overpaid NFL players right to protest, but not on my DIME! Think of it, you pay big bucks for a ticket to the game (big bucks, too, at the concession stand); you pay big bucks for cable to get the game on TV, etc., etc. If you want to protest fine, but not when I've paid for a ticket or for cable! That is NOT what I paid to watch! When all baseball players went on strike, the game attendance stagnated for several years afterward. The same loss of fans and loss of interest in the game should be visited upon the NFL for their "right to protest" in front of fans who paid good money for a game, not a protest!
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My brother went through four years of ROTC in college only to find out that he had a hip problem that disqualified him from serving. If he had gone in, he probably would have been medically discharged in about a year.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing! Not all are fit for duty, either physically, like your brother, or for others based on maturity, criminal history, or mental issues.
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The era of the Viet Nam Conflict was where a lot of BS was allowed. The rich, often found the various loop holes. Many joined the Guard and Reserves to get out of Nam as well. Then there were those that went to Canada. They have been exonerated for doing that as well.
But to be quite frank I do not care as it is the past! I personally think me need the draft, when at peace or war! There needs to be stricter rules this time as to the wealthy not going to war. If there is a loop hole it will be used, guaranteed. But President Trump is the Commander and Chief of the military. It looks as though he is currently doing his part now?! I believe he is a damn good job even though the AH's have fought him on each and everything he had to fix! The troublemakers are the career Democrats holding office way too long!! We need term limits just like the president, and work for their salary, no benefits after serving at our pleasure, the loss of Civil Service coverage..
But to be quite frank I do not care as it is the past! I personally think me need the draft, when at peace or war! There needs to be stricter rules this time as to the wealthy not going to war. If there is a loop hole it will be used, guaranteed. But President Trump is the Commander and Chief of the military. It looks as though he is currently doing his part now?! I believe he is a damn good job even though the AH's have fought him on each and everything he had to fix! The troublemakers are the career Democrats holding office way too long!! We need term limits just like the president, and work for their salary, no benefits after serving at our pleasure, the loss of Civil Service coverage..
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SSgt Terry P.
LTC James McElreath Probably would not have as many going into politics if terms were limited,but the ones who did might actually get something done.
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SP5 Dennis Dorsey
SSgt Terry P. - Why would a millionaire want to go into politics if there were term limits. They wouldn't be able to fleece enough money from the taxpayer if they could only stay a few years.
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SSgt Terry P.
SP5 Dennis Dorsey - That was my point,Dennis,maybe the persons going into office with term limits might really want to help.
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If you went to Canada to avoid the draft and I had my way, you'd still be in Canada. If you lied to avoid the draft - perhaps claimed to be homosexual, for instance - then I have no use for you.
If you followed the rules and didn't serve then I have no problem with you.
If you followed the rules and didn't serve then I have no problem with you.
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I agree with the Major, one other point that needs to be brought up is age. Trump was a young kid like the rest of us.I sure did some stupid things as a 20 yr.old and thats after being in Nam. Trump played by the rules, Now however he is a becon for the Military, (correct me if im wrong) Especially The Marine Corp. I have a lot of distain for People like McCain,Carey,and Even Bush ,who hid out in the Air Natl. Guard. I have to stop here,before I get to political, Thanks for the space
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SGT David Racette
SSgt Terry P. He placed Marines in top positions in his Cabinet. MADE Mattis a Top , and it may be just me but I only hear him talk about the Corp, Could be he is surrounded by them everyday and sees them everyday as opposed to any others that they just come to mind in his speeches, Like I said maybe its just me being jealous.
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SSgt Terry P.
SGT David Racette - I won't get into the jealousy concerning the Marine Corps,since i served in 2 different branches. lol Anyone serving in any branch has my respect.
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Let's face it, their are plenty of cowards amongst us. War is war is war! Just accept it. Now a days, we seem to be going to war over oil. Thank God for electric. If you don't believe in war or military service, then serve at a different level. No, not at a bar complaining about these terrible politicians running your County. Do what your buddy (Barrack Obama) said in commercials, volunteer!
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Maybe more upset to those that in time of your nation needing of your service did not volunteer and made the draft a thing. I know maybe you did not agreed with the war, but your nation was in it so you were in it by being a citizen. Everybody want the benefits no one want to sacrifice for it. And in case you were wondering I was done with my first term in 99 when 9/11 happened and I re-enlisted for my second term cause I figure my nation, not my politicians needed my service.
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SSG Gerhard S.
I am thankful for your service, and for the fact you were able to voluntarily choose your own path in doing so. Regards.
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Shared responsibility is the tome for this subject. You can offer the argument against the draft but, each citizen has the "same" amount of responsibility and accountability for our country and its attendant freedoms we "all" enjoy. At the center of your defense from a dictionary definition you are seeking to absolve segments of society of their portion of such responsibility of these attendant responsibilities. You don't give any sort of "alternative(s)" whereby these folks have some responsibility for enjoying such freedoms that a select segment of society must defend for all. In essence they under your analysis are given a proverbial free ride. That is not equitable in any way.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your thoughts on this issue. The main problem with "shared responsibility" is that the people who make the decisions regarding who has to "share", aren't sharing themselves. Ultimately, it is the individual who pays the price for the "privilege" of "sharing" while our politicians share neither the responsibility, nor the consequences. As an American, I am a believer in individual rights, and freedoms. The Constitution says our government is in place to serve the people, not the other way around. If our country is in danger, then one might suggest it is incumbent upon our government, that is charged with providing for the common defense, ensure that the people are aware of the threats against us, and to then pay commensurate salary and benefits to entice enough people to volunteer. The draft, or the euphemism of "shared responsibility" is just a mechanism for politicians to be foolish with the treasure, and blood of it's citizens ON THE CHEAP.
Again, I appreciate your input, and offer my respectful regards for taking the time to share.
Again, I appreciate your input, and offer my respectful regards for taking the time to share.
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SFC David Dean
While your comments reflect on some other elements of this question; in respect to the subject itself it remains as I stated. As citizens there is some responsibility each incurs. The draft as it originally existed during the First and Second World Wars more appropriately provided for a more equitable process whereby most although not each and everyone was accorded the risk and exposure to the draft. As anyone who is familiar with the draft during Viet Nam showed; preferences began to be more prevalent and as well both wealth and privelege accorded some to be excluded. To say that it is slavery is to liken all of Rights inherently just fall into our laps and demand no defense to protect them. Whether we like it or not, we do have duties relative to what entails being an American. Otherwise Thomas Jefferson's quote of "Any government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything away from you." To comment on the folks you point out is to digress down another separate path and another subject that far to often is not the term many want to address. That term is equitable. The other term which far too often expressed is fair or fairness. Equitable is a term which can objectively quantified and measured. Fairness is a subjective term which entails a "personal" preference and cannot be measured in a manner that collectively satisfies most or all people. It is a perception from one's point of view. This why by definition the point of slavery with respect to the draft has no foundational basis in fact.
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There was a guy I met in the VA whose brother was drafted and he was turned away at meps because his brother said "you'll have to draft 5 more men just to watch me". It worked and he was found psychologically unfit for service. Some people don't belong in the military. Even if they're drafted, they'll do more harm than good.
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Well, a lot of presidents dodged the draft: George W. Bush enlisted in the national guard, Bill Clinton was granted deferments as well as Trump (from what is being posted) so, if trump is wrong from getting a deferment, wouldn't it be the same for Clinton and bush (who ran to the guard?)
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SFC David Dean
No, and the reason I make such a distinction is solely becasue in my opinion remains that one standard exists for today's Democrats while a totally different standard exists for Republicans and Trump. As for Bush and his service, it doesn't matter because he served in uniform and was exposed to same risks any other jet pilot had. Oh, and by the way Senator John Kerry was also National Guard as well. I will not disparage any man or woman served, no matter the branch or sevice connection. I can disagree with political positions, but not their service.
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