Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
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Whether the President dodged the draft or not, the fact remains he was elected to his current office. As such we have a set of laws in place that will limit him to not more than two terms and the voters can put him out of office in the next general election. Now the question is become are we going to follow the laws or have another revolution?
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We require national service. That is my opinion. Women too. Exceptions yes. Too many kids. Bs. To fat bs. EEO. Us citizens only.
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One has to ask, would you want to go into combat with someone that doesn't want to be there? I was in from 1974-1978, saw a lot of scared guys. let them run to Canada I say.
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Well said. and I agree. It is one thing to volunteer, which I and many do/did. it is a whole another thing to force/draft someone into something they may be too young, or not prepared to do. No hard feelings from me for anyone who avoided the draft - however they did it.
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I think people who dodged to help protect a fellow American, sits pretty low in my books. It's not the defending the flag or the reason why we are at war. It's that fact that you could have saved Americans with your act, to help protect your brothers and sisters. The fact that your reason to stay at home could have been the deciding factor on why one or two or even 10 Americans died. Your decision to not help protect, led to a chain reaction that caused a platoon to get wiped out. We have a leader who dodged the draft view their opinions about war and also give their opinions on a certain politician who did get captured for three years and call them a coward. People who dodged the draft should think about the impact they did not leave on the soil they call home. They should think about the impact they did not have every time the flag is flown in the honor of Americans. The people who dodged the draft should think about the fallen they they refused to help save in their time of need. I have several oversea battles in my life and will gladly do more, as long as I get the opportunity to wear the flag and do it next to my fellow Americans, even if it means my life.
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I am from Arkansas. Bill Clinton intentionally and willfully was a successful DRAFT DODGER. Why do we question Trump when the question about Trump should be directed even moreso at Clinton?
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I totally agree with you. I volunteered and it was the greatest thing I've done outside of my two loving children.
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Unfortunately, there are at least 2 premises in your post that are not accurate. You state that there would be enough volunteers to fight a war if the US was invaded and that there has never been a shortage of volunteers but in at least one war, that being the Civil War, there were not enough volunteers in the US Army as early as 1863 when the first draft of Union soldiers was instituted. Without the draft there would have been far more slaves "heading for Canada", or perhaps nowhere at all in the event of the Union losing. There would most likely not have been enough servicemen in WW2 to fight on 2 fronts without the draft either, and I seriously doubt whether the government or the American public felt the need to "re-think the necessity of that particular engagement" after the attack on Pearl Harbor . What you've also forgotten is that there was a great shift between the ideals and patriotism of the 40's and those of the 60's. There were men in WW2 that committed suicide when classified 4F because of the shame of NOT being able to serve, the objectives of WW2 were far more clear cut and defined than in Vietnam and the draft in WW2 was far more equally applied across social strata than it was in the Vietnam era where the well-to-do could get into the National Guard or obtain deferments far more easily than lower income Whites and Blacks. In addition leading citizens, especially in the entertainment industry, volunteered in droves in WW2 and any other attitude was considered unpatriotic and un-American. The entertainment industry of the 60's gave us Hanoi Jane. You've also neglected to mention that a draftee can still choose to elect Conscientious Objector status and serve as a non-combatant. If we're being "philosophically honest" then you already know that there was a great deal of difference between the circumstances of President Trump's medical deferment and the circumstances of President Clinton's going to Canada, but that brings us back to my point of the well-to-do finding far easier "outs" than regular folk but that was the fault of the government and the military for allowing it. In short, the draft is a necessity in certain circumstances.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your thoughts on this issue. Respectfully, though, my statement regarding having enough volunteers if we were ever to be invaded does not apply to either of your examples. The South did not "invade" the US. They simply wanted to leave, and go their own way. Southern forces didn't move into the North in any great numbers until well after the war was underway in the South. And though it's true the Japanese bombed (attacked) Pearl harbor, they didn't invade the US either. Just as importantly, the Nazi's didn't invade the US either, and Europe is where we focused our efforts first (Europe first strategy). Again, no invasion, therefore not applicable to that particular statement.
Secondly, the basic premise of the ENTIRE post is that the draft is, at best servitude, and at worst, slavery. "Choosing" to claim conscientious objector status, still leaves one bound to servitude (or jail), i.e. having one's ability to choose one's own path, and being forced to serve someone else's desires. Again, this example does not make a valid argument against the basic premise of the post.
Your comment regarding the well-to-do having the resources to find easier ways out of the draft, is a valid one, but that's not an argument for the draft, but rather an argument against such a system. I have a similar view regarding the death penalty. On the one hand I see it as appropriate justice for the crime of murder, in particular. On the other hand, we've done such an atrocious job of prosecuting it that many have been exonerated of their convictions by DNA evidence, which makes one wonder how many innocents, have already been executed under our terribly imperfect system. (144 men on Death Row have been exonerated between 1973, and 2014 based on DNA evidence). For this reason alone I find myself pro death penalty in principle, but anti-death penalty, in practice.
Lastly, regarding entertainers, I personally hold disdain for Hanoi Jane. I could point out that our entertainment Industry also gave us these celebrities who performed with the USO, for the troops in Vietnam. One suspects there are others as well who positively effected the morale of our troops.
Madeleine Hartog Bell
Jimmy Boyd
James Brown
Anita Bryant
Jerry Colonna
Sammy Davis Jr.
Phyllis Diller
Dale Evans
James Drury
Lola Falana[1]
Redd Foxx[2]
The Golddiggers
Rosey Grier
Joey Heatherton
Bob Hope[3][4]
Dawn Lake
Bobby Limb
Jayne Mansfield
Ann-Margret
Mary Martin
Marilyn Monroe
Wayne Newton
Nicholas Brothers (Fayard and Harold Nicholas)
Kathleen Nolan
Dian Parkinson
Penelope Plummer
Martha Raye
Roy Rogers
Nancy Sinatra
Rick Springfield[5]
Connie Stevens
Kaye Stevens
John Wayne
Raquel Welch
Again, thank you for taking the time to read the post, and for your thoughtful comments.
Respectful Regards.
Secondly, the basic premise of the ENTIRE post is that the draft is, at best servitude, and at worst, slavery. "Choosing" to claim conscientious objector status, still leaves one bound to servitude (or jail), i.e. having one's ability to choose one's own path, and being forced to serve someone else's desires. Again, this example does not make a valid argument against the basic premise of the post.
Your comment regarding the well-to-do having the resources to find easier ways out of the draft, is a valid one, but that's not an argument for the draft, but rather an argument against such a system. I have a similar view regarding the death penalty. On the one hand I see it as appropriate justice for the crime of murder, in particular. On the other hand, we've done such an atrocious job of prosecuting it that many have been exonerated of their convictions by DNA evidence, which makes one wonder how many innocents, have already been executed under our terribly imperfect system. (144 men on Death Row have been exonerated between 1973, and 2014 based on DNA evidence). For this reason alone I find myself pro death penalty in principle, but anti-death penalty, in practice.
Lastly, regarding entertainers, I personally hold disdain for Hanoi Jane. I could point out that our entertainment Industry also gave us these celebrities who performed with the USO, for the troops in Vietnam. One suspects there are others as well who positively effected the morale of our troops.
Madeleine Hartog Bell
Jimmy Boyd
James Brown
Anita Bryant
Jerry Colonna
Sammy Davis Jr.
Phyllis Diller
Dale Evans
James Drury
Lola Falana[1]
Redd Foxx[2]
The Golddiggers
Rosey Grier
Joey Heatherton
Bob Hope[3][4]
Dawn Lake
Bobby Limb
Jayne Mansfield
Ann-Margret
Mary Martin
Marilyn Monroe
Wayne Newton
Nicholas Brothers (Fayard and Harold Nicholas)
Kathleen Nolan
Dian Parkinson
Penelope Plummer
Martha Raye
Roy Rogers
Nancy Sinatra
Rick Springfield[5]
Connie Stevens
Kaye Stevens
John Wayne
Raquel Welch
Again, thank you for taking the time to read the post, and for your thoughtful comments.
Respectful Regards.
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CPL Verne Jenkinson
That smacks of sophistry on your part regarding the Civil War and WW2. The Confederacy considered itself as a separate nation and indeed invaded the United States on several occasions. Hawaii was a US protectorate, as were the Phillipines and although Alaska was not yet a state the Aleutians were invaded and thousands of US servicemen were killed and wounded in those instances. In addition, the US was suffering casualties from German U-boat attacks even before formal entry into the war. All of these cases would fall under your “What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?” question. You're also being rather disingenuous regarding the entertainers as I was quite clear regarding volunteers for MILITARY service in WW2 and not for conducting USO shows as a civilian. For example, I don't equate the personal risk for Jimmy Stewart volunteering for military service and flying 25 combat missions over Germany with Bob Hope telling a few jokes behind the lines, as laudable as his efforts to boost morale were. My comment regarding the ease of the well-to-do in obtaining deferments is an indictment of the system as it was administered during the Vietnam era in which I served, not as it was administered during WW2, or even WW1. This does not mean that a future draft system would not be conducted on an equitable basis. If we take your position to its ultimate conclusion then it appears you would allow those who join in peacetime to "opt out" if a war broke out because their situation would now fall under the definition you posted of Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life". As I stated before, the draft is necessary in certain circumstances. Kind regards.
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