Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
I had to get letters from two doctors to get in the Navy in 1968, and I was worried they would not take me. They did and I served a little over nine years.
I have nothing but disdain for those who went to Canada or claimed some lame medical issue to get out of serving. Trump is no different than Clinton. In fact, in a lot of ways he's worse.
Bring back the draft! If some guy has bone spurs, give him a desk job, supply or some non-combat role, but make him serve. Service to our country is a necessity.
I have nothing but disdain for those who went to Canada or claimed some lame medical issue to get out of serving. Trump is no different than Clinton. In fact, in a lot of ways he's worse.
Bring back the draft! If some guy has bone spurs, give him a desk job, supply or some non-combat role, but make him serve. Service to our country is a necessity.
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At the time of the war, a citizenship in the United States of America had a price. When those we had elected called for us to pay that price, most did.
We saved many South Vietnamese, killed many more North Vietnamese, but we still saved many so that they may live free.
We saved many South Vietnamese, killed many more North Vietnamese, but we still saved many so that they may live free.
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In my opinion, I used to be angry. However, over time, I pity them & their current situation. They have to live with their decision to run-away...just as I do with mine. As far as I know, no one has welcomed them home. Food for thought.
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The draft was a different time in our country. People had different reasons for not wanting to serve especially during a time of war.
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I would have liked to see those who fled the country and were later pardoned serve at least 2 years in some form of public service at the same Military pay scale I earned while I served. The law was the law and they broke it.
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I too served, for 15 years. In speaking of the draft for Viet Nam it was a different time. I remember neighbors being drafted and coming back changed. The news was full of war coverage and protests.
I don't begrudge those who avoided the draft, legally or by dodging.
What Mr. Trump did with his bone spurs was questionable. I have worked in orthopedics and was taught that this condition can cause pain or not, but is treatable. That's as far as I will go with that tact.
You can draw your own conclusions.
I don't begrudge those who avoided the draft, legally or by dodging.
What Mr. Trump did with his bone spurs was questionable. I have worked in orthopedics and was taught that this condition can cause pain or not, but is treatable. That's as far as I will go with that tact.
You can draw your own conclusions.
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I believe most making the " draft dodger" comments are not referring to the moral nature of a draft but to the lack of character in having someone else, that might be less privileged, take their place. I graduated from college in 1968 with four educational deferments like our current president but then I manned up and volunteered for infantry OCS and hauled an M16 around for three years.
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I volunteered as well as dedicated myself defending this great country of ours for 11 yrs thru the end of the Cold War and part of Desert Storm. Knowing at any time during those 11 yrs of service that everyone serving could be called upon to fulfill our sworn duty to defend our country.
The ultimate sacrifice that our brave brothers, sisters, fathers, and mothers made defending our freedom have no voice as to how they'd feel about Trump being a "Draft Dodger", but I'm sure it wouldn't be favorable. For me, someone who buys his way out of serving his country because of "Bone Spurs" makes me sick to my stomach.
Here's why. The year before I enlisted in the United States Air Force, I had open heart surgery to remove a tumor from my heart and once I was cleared for duty, I still enlisted because I was proud to have the opportunity to serve my country. Now that I'm 100% service connected disabled, I don't look back on my time serving my country with disdain, it's just the opposite because I'd gladly do it again as many times as I would be called upon.
I know there have been many more that had the same opportunity to serve during the draft and those who chose not to or buy their way out like Trump. The only reason he's a target for being a draft dodger is that he was. He is by definition the living embodiment of what a Draft Dodger is. Trump has stepped on so many people to get to where he is over the years, that his dad should've paid to have him deferred because of athletes feet, not bone spurs.
I want to make clear that I always vote for who I feel the most qualified to hold any office on the ballot. It was a shame there wasn't anyone who I felt was qualified to hold the office of the Presidency on the 2016 ballot and we got stuck with someone who doesn't know the meaning of sacrifice, service, or honor.
The ultimate sacrifice that our brave brothers, sisters, fathers, and mothers made defending our freedom have no voice as to how they'd feel about Trump being a "Draft Dodger", but I'm sure it wouldn't be favorable. For me, someone who buys his way out of serving his country because of "Bone Spurs" makes me sick to my stomach.
Here's why. The year before I enlisted in the United States Air Force, I had open heart surgery to remove a tumor from my heart and once I was cleared for duty, I still enlisted because I was proud to have the opportunity to serve my country. Now that I'm 100% service connected disabled, I don't look back on my time serving my country with disdain, it's just the opposite because I'd gladly do it again as many times as I would be called upon.
I know there have been many more that had the same opportunity to serve during the draft and those who chose not to or buy their way out like Trump. The only reason he's a target for being a draft dodger is that he was. He is by definition the living embodiment of what a Draft Dodger is. Trump has stepped on so many people to get to where he is over the years, that his dad should've paid to have him deferred because of athletes feet, not bone spurs.
I want to make clear that I always vote for who I feel the most qualified to hold any office on the ballot. It was a shame there wasn't anyone who I felt was qualified to hold the office of the Presidency on the 2016 ballot and we got stuck with someone who doesn't know the meaning of sacrifice, service, or honor.
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