Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
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Taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax’s
1. this is a personal benefit
2. you are the sole beneficiary
3. your life in not in jeopardy 24 7 365 day of this deployment
4. your mental health and physical health is not at risk to be altered for the rest of your natural life and come back and have to fight to get the care you need and deserve.
5. having to work on jobs masking your feelings and dealing with challenges only a few will ever know.
6. do you ever wonder why some become dope addicts and some alcoholics and some commit suicide?
7. thank God you have a home ,many of us sacrifice for many of them that think it wasn't very important, many of us are still homeless, and yes thanks for your support.
8. i have no regrets and would do it again if my country need me.
9. maybe if you are too big to do something little, maybe you are too little to do something big.
10. when i travel the world people seem to respect me because i am American.
11. we no longer pledge of allegiance to anything, either we stand for something or fall for anything.
1. this is a personal benefit
2. you are the sole beneficiary
3. your life in not in jeopardy 24 7 365 day of this deployment
4. your mental health and physical health is not at risk to be altered for the rest of your natural life and come back and have to fight to get the care you need and deserve.
5. having to work on jobs masking your feelings and dealing with challenges only a few will ever know.
6. do you ever wonder why some become dope addicts and some alcoholics and some commit suicide?
7. thank God you have a home ,many of us sacrifice for many of them that think it wasn't very important, many of us are still homeless, and yes thanks for your support.
8. i have no regrets and would do it again if my country need me.
9. maybe if you are too big to do something little, maybe you are too little to do something big.
10. when i travel the world people seem to respect me because i am American.
11. we no longer pledge of allegiance to anything, either we stand for something or fall for anything.
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Ok, at first I hated those men who went to a Canada, I was only 19 in 1965 in the jungle of a Vietnam. I did not understand the war but wanted more soldiers to help me in my bunker. I did my duty.
When I realized that the war was un-just, my hate for those men in Canada went away. The young people in colleges all over the country ended that war. I directed my hate to President Johnson who wasted over 58,000 men and women for some political reason. I came home, many did not.
When I realized that the war was un-just, my hate for those men in Canada went away. The young people in colleges all over the country ended that war. I directed my hate to President Johnson who wasted over 58,000 men and women for some political reason. I came home, many did not.
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Byron Skinner. I gave up Draft Dodgers and Jane Fonda years ag.., no make that decades ago. In old age I find it humorous when Vietnam comes up in discussions I hear all of the excuses. These men are pathetic Those of us who went have no excuses to be made. I do get a laugh from the dodgers who try and fake going into the Army and going to Vietnam. If you weren’t there don’t try and fake it.
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I have mixed thoughts on this. My cousin went to Canada to avoid the Draft. He came back and raised a family. His son joined the Air Force and made an honorable career of it. While his son was serving, I talked to my cousin and he admitted that running to Canada was a big mistake and that he couldn't have been more proud of his son being in uniform. When people say that Trump dodged the draft, those people also forget their Hero Bubba ran to Canada for the same reason. But somehow they think that's OK??? Both are wrong and for that reason, why are they Presidents of this country???
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing this great story. Of course, the prime difference here, is that your Cousin wouldn't have had a choice to NOT serve, in the matter, had he been drafted, while his son DID have that choice. Not everyone WANTS to serve, not everyone is fit to serve, not everyone should serve. And to answer your last question, objectively, speaking, there is no service requirement listed in the Constitution to be elected President, nor to be a citizen, or to vote.
Again, thank you for sharing your experiences, and thoughts on this issue.
Again, thank you for sharing your experiences, and thoughts on this issue.
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My reasoning for a draft of citizens in the USA is simple. They don't know anything about what made this country the way it is. At least in the military they can learn some real history about this country. They can also be made to interact with people from all ethnic groups and from all areas of the country. Presently you have rich people who can afford protective round the clock security and who hang around with other rich people. Next you have upper middle-class people who live in gated communities and hang around with those types of people. Then, you have lower and regular middle-class people who live in areas with no security, except police protection. They usually own guns to protect themselves. Finally, you have poverty-stricken people who live in high crime communities, usually in places where they are not allowed to own guns so they are brutalized by the criminal elements in their communities. Also, they don't get much police protection.
My draft would be simple. You finish high school and you go into the Army, the Navy, or the Air Force. Unless you are so physically disabled that you cannot function as a normal person would then you will go through basic training and get placed in a job that fits your abilities. The USMC and other special operations units would not be included in the draft. You would have to volunteer to belong in units like that.
After these draftees did their two years of service and got out they would have a different perspective of how their fellow citizens lived and thought about life. It would make them better citizens. As it is now you have people believing that they are better than others, simply because they were born into better circumstances and have never had to hob nob with people in a lower economic status than them.
Also, we are ALL CITIZENS OF THE USA, that means we all need to SERVE OUR COUNTRY in one way or another. A career in the US Armed Forces may not be for all people. Those people would do their two years and get out. Those who wanted to stay and were qualified for higher responsibility would be allowed to make a career out of the military.
Finally, there would be no going to college straight out of high school. EVERYONE who was physically able would be allowed a month after high school to have their party after graduating, then they would automatically be sent to the induction centers in their area and be on their way to the Army, Navy, or Air Force.
That is what should have happened during the Vietnam War. If it had been like that no one, which would have included Bill Clinton and George Bush (the Nat Guard hero), would have gotten out of the draft. I understand we need a National Guard, but no one should be allowed to go into that until they have done two years of active duty. College deferments, getting married and having a baby, or having bone spurs (like Donald Trump) should not have been allowed.
Those of us who fought the war have nothing but contempt for people who played the system to keep from being drafted. The people who went to other countries to avoid being drafted, I actually hate. I think they should have never been allowed to return to the USA. Which means if they stepped foot on US soil, they would be arrested, tried for treason, and either shot or be put in jail for the rest of their natural life. That is how much I abhor such traitors.
My point is this: IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS COUNTRY ENOUGH TO SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES, THEN GET THE HELL OUT AND NEVER EVER COME BACK!
My draft would be simple. You finish high school and you go into the Army, the Navy, or the Air Force. Unless you are so physically disabled that you cannot function as a normal person would then you will go through basic training and get placed in a job that fits your abilities. The USMC and other special operations units would not be included in the draft. You would have to volunteer to belong in units like that.
After these draftees did their two years of service and got out they would have a different perspective of how their fellow citizens lived and thought about life. It would make them better citizens. As it is now you have people believing that they are better than others, simply because they were born into better circumstances and have never had to hob nob with people in a lower economic status than them.
Also, we are ALL CITIZENS OF THE USA, that means we all need to SERVE OUR COUNTRY in one way or another. A career in the US Armed Forces may not be for all people. Those people would do their two years and get out. Those who wanted to stay and were qualified for higher responsibility would be allowed to make a career out of the military.
Finally, there would be no going to college straight out of high school. EVERYONE who was physically able would be allowed a month after high school to have their party after graduating, then they would automatically be sent to the induction centers in their area and be on their way to the Army, Navy, or Air Force.
That is what should have happened during the Vietnam War. If it had been like that no one, which would have included Bill Clinton and George Bush (the Nat Guard hero), would have gotten out of the draft. I understand we need a National Guard, but no one should be allowed to go into that until they have done two years of active duty. College deferments, getting married and having a baby, or having bone spurs (like Donald Trump) should not have been allowed.
Those of us who fought the war have nothing but contempt for people who played the system to keep from being drafted. The people who went to other countries to avoid being drafted, I actually hate. I think they should have never been allowed to return to the USA. Which means if they stepped foot on US soil, they would be arrested, tried for treason, and either shot or be put in jail for the rest of their natural life. That is how much I abhor such traitors.
My point is this: IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS COUNTRY ENOUGH TO SERVE IN THE ARMED FORCES, THEN GET THE HELL OUT AND NEVER EVER COME BACK!
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SPC John Tacetta
I agree with your argument. Implementation might be problematic though. How about a public service program instead? We don't really need such a large standing army.
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Here's a response I sent to an 18 year old with no parents. He was about to have to leave the home where he was living as he just turned 18. Yeah, we need a draft to melt the snowflakes and create some REAL Americans instead of the dumbed down wimps of today's generation......
OK Kid, Here's the deal. If you're a tough kid that likes to take risks and complete very hard objectives, go into the Army with the intent to become Airborne, Ranger and Special Forces. If you like to be a techie then the Navy or Air Force is the place to go. There's already a Secret Space Program that is unbelievable and other Top Secret fields that are just as wild. All you have to do is qualify and DON'T EVER QUIT. No Parents, No problem! Just think how lucky you are to exist. God doesn't make mistakes and that's the truth. You have been put here for a purpose so don't blow it. I came from a broken home since birth and was raised on a farm that belonged to my Grandmother. You might as well say that I pretty much raised myself and I made some really stupid mistakes. That all ended when I went into the Army in 1961. I retired from the Army in 1981, and in my career I went to Vietnam with the 1st Bde, 101st Airborne Division. Upon returning from there in 1968 I earned my Green Beret. I continued to work after I retired in 81 at Ft. Hood Texas PMO for another 20 years and upon retiring from there worked for a City Airport retiring in 08. I'm a Great Grandfather now with a Wife of 51 years and two grown kids. You don't need Parents to be successful; you just need the guts and balls to make something of yourself. You’ve got good Bones and God's gonna help you and show you some paths, but it's up to you to do the work. GOOD LUCK !!
OK Kid, Here's the deal. If you're a tough kid that likes to take risks and complete very hard objectives, go into the Army with the intent to become Airborne, Ranger and Special Forces. If you like to be a techie then the Navy or Air Force is the place to go. There's already a Secret Space Program that is unbelievable and other Top Secret fields that are just as wild. All you have to do is qualify and DON'T EVER QUIT. No Parents, No problem! Just think how lucky you are to exist. God doesn't make mistakes and that's the truth. You have been put here for a purpose so don't blow it. I came from a broken home since birth and was raised on a farm that belonged to my Grandmother. You might as well say that I pretty much raised myself and I made some really stupid mistakes. That all ended when I went into the Army in 1961. I retired from the Army in 1981, and in my career I went to Vietnam with the 1st Bde, 101st Airborne Division. Upon returning from there in 1968 I earned my Green Beret. I continued to work after I retired in 81 at Ft. Hood Texas PMO for another 20 years and upon retiring from there worked for a City Airport retiring in 08. I'm a Great Grandfather now with a Wife of 51 years and two grown kids. You don't need Parents to be successful; you just need the guts and balls to make something of yourself. You’ve got good Bones and God's gonna help you and show you some paths, but it's up to you to do the work. GOOD LUCK !!
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Why Trump didn't get drafted during Vietnam War
Donald Trump says despite multiple military deferments during the Vietnam War that he regrets not serving in the military. CNN's Suzanne Malveaux reports.
While I agree with some of your statements against the draft and in support of deferments, I believe Trump evaded his responsibility to serve the country. It is not just that Trump sought and obtained multiple deferments, it is all the associated BS that went along with those deferments and the numerous lies he has told over the years.
I also believe if you're going to talk the talk then you should walk the walk. Trump talks a lot, A LOT, but he often speaks lies and fudges facts. Trump lied again and again about his lack of military service. Trump is said to have been a star athlete sought out by professional scouts but suddenly develops a medical disqualification after graduation yet is unable to recall which foot was impacted by the alleged painful disabling condition that excluded his military service. He falsely claimed to watch the draft lottery in college and was spared by his high draft number but the truth is the lottery was not instituted until after Trump graduated and Trump had an educational deferment that did not make him subject to the draft while in college. Trump continued to enjoy a rather active life in leisure sports that should not have been possible if his condition was as debilitating as claimed to obtain his medical deferment. Trump says he is perfectly healthy and does not have osteoarthritis. Miraculously his chronic medical condition went away entirely on its own shortly after the draft ended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSv1PhiReBY
In interviews Trump bragged on the about his promiscuous lifestyle and stated that men who didn’t go to Vietnam didn’t need to feel guilty because “You know, if you’re young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam — it’s called the dating game,” “Dating is like being in Vietnam. You’re the equivalent of a soldier going over to Vietnam.” Four years later, Trump claimed “It’s amazing, I can’t even believe it. I’ve been so lucky in terms of that whole world, it is a dangerous world out there. It’s like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider,” when Howard Stern asked how he handled making sure he wasn’t contracting STDs from the women he was sleeping with. Adding that women’s vaginas are “potential landmines” and saying “there’s some real danger there.” On multiple occasions Trump has also equated his long office hours as equal to the service and sacrifices of the military.
Trump falsely claims that he built the NY Vietnam War Memorial, but a 1984 newspaper account and board member interviews reveal that Trump lied about that too. He failed to pay veterans’ groups money that he had promised to donate until after the media pressured him into coughing up the dough. He falsely takes credit and perpetuates myths that he donated services to rescue stranded troops. He glosses over his initial support for war with Iraq and now claims he has always opposed it. He labelled POWs as "losers". He attacks Gold Star Families. He creates crises and claims victory when his crisis is defused. As President, Trump has taken personal credit for the military's deeds. He has eliminated military specific protections against predatory lenders and corrupt "schools" pilfering educational benefits. He took multiple rain checks and cancelled appearances at several military memorial events at both home and abroad (while other officials still attended). Trump perpetuated his feud with John McCain after the Senator died and made multiple false statements (i.e. Trump planned funeral events, McCain family didn't thank him, McCain pushed for war, etc.) He fosters a culture where "well meaning" staff members feel its necessary to hid the USS McCain from Trump's eyes. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
The guy unworthy of respect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67kNPi4MvvI
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1984/11/15/donald-trump-holding-all-the-cards-the-tower-the-team-the-money-the-future/8be79254-7793-4812-a153-f2b88e81fa54/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trumps-marine-airlift/
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/fact-checker-sean-hannity-s-tale-of-a-trump-rescue-1.423533
I also believe if you're going to talk the talk then you should walk the walk. Trump talks a lot, A LOT, but he often speaks lies and fudges facts. Trump lied again and again about his lack of military service. Trump is said to have been a star athlete sought out by professional scouts but suddenly develops a medical disqualification after graduation yet is unable to recall which foot was impacted by the alleged painful disabling condition that excluded his military service. He falsely claimed to watch the draft lottery in college and was spared by his high draft number but the truth is the lottery was not instituted until after Trump graduated and Trump had an educational deferment that did not make him subject to the draft while in college. Trump continued to enjoy a rather active life in leisure sports that should not have been possible if his condition was as debilitating as claimed to obtain his medical deferment. Trump says he is perfectly healthy and does not have osteoarthritis. Miraculously his chronic medical condition went away entirely on its own shortly after the draft ended. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSv1PhiReBY
In interviews Trump bragged on the about his promiscuous lifestyle and stated that men who didn’t go to Vietnam didn’t need to feel guilty because “You know, if you’re young, and in this era, and if you have any guilt about not having gone to Vietnam, we have our own Vietnam — it’s called the dating game,” “Dating is like being in Vietnam. You’re the equivalent of a soldier going over to Vietnam.” Four years later, Trump claimed “It’s amazing, I can’t even believe it. I’ve been so lucky in terms of that whole world, it is a dangerous world out there. It’s like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider,” when Howard Stern asked how he handled making sure he wasn’t contracting STDs from the women he was sleeping with. Adding that women’s vaginas are “potential landmines” and saying “there’s some real danger there.” On multiple occasions Trump has also equated his long office hours as equal to the service and sacrifices of the military.
Trump falsely claims that he built the NY Vietnam War Memorial, but a 1984 newspaper account and board member interviews reveal that Trump lied about that too. He failed to pay veterans’ groups money that he had promised to donate until after the media pressured him into coughing up the dough. He falsely takes credit and perpetuates myths that he donated services to rescue stranded troops. He glosses over his initial support for war with Iraq and now claims he has always opposed it. He labelled POWs as "losers". He attacks Gold Star Families. He creates crises and claims victory when his crisis is defused. As President, Trump has taken personal credit for the military's deeds. He has eliminated military specific protections against predatory lenders and corrupt "schools" pilfering educational benefits. He took multiple rain checks and cancelled appearances at several military memorial events at both home and abroad (while other officials still attended). Trump perpetuated his feud with John McCain after the Senator died and made multiple false statements (i.e. Trump planned funeral events, McCain family didn't thank him, McCain pushed for war, etc.) He fosters a culture where "well meaning" staff members feel its necessary to hid the USS McCain from Trump's eyes. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera...
The guy unworthy of respect.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=67kNPi4MvvI
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/1984/11/15/donald-trump-holding-all-the-cards-the-tower-the-team-the-money-the-future/8be79254-7793-4812-a153-f2b88e81fa54/
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trumps-marine-airlift/
https://www.stripes.com/news/us/fact-checker-sean-hannity-s-tale-of-a-trump-rescue-1.423533
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SSG (Join to see)
If it were any other war that he dodged than I'd also be on the slander train. But it was Vietnam...... A total crap show.
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SSG Richard Brue
Before you go on a rant about how Trump did this and Trump did that and Trump is a racist and Trump lied about everything, you need to do your research and see why he was not drafted. I have read so many reports and statements that contradicts everything the lime stream media put out. I also read that he did have a condition in one of his feet that invalidated his enlistment. Now I can't if it any better for Active duty, but I do know it did get better for us Vets. Now, for someone who never served and to do so much for us, I am not complaining. And BTW, how much time did biden serve.
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SMSgt Bob W.
It appears Joe Biden and Donald Trump do have something in common. But after he graduated college in the spring of 1968 and became eligible for the draft and —possibly — combat duty in Vietnam, he received a diagnosis that let him avoid military service.
No, not bone spurs like Trump. but Asthma.
And his name was Joe Biden.
Ironic, we had two losers as POTUS and they still are losers! Yes, they have or will do something good for he country, but at what cost?
No, not bone spurs like Trump. but Asthma.
And his name was Joe Biden.
Ironic, we had two losers as POTUS and they still are losers! Yes, they have or will do something good for he country, but at what cost?
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Lt Col Timothy Cassidy-Curtis
I still want to point out that, while trying to avoid the draft, Trump was a Democrat.
...I find that very interesting. Don't you?
...I find that very interesting. Don't you?
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As a child of the 1960s I was very aware of an obligation and duty to our country.and our freedoms. I had many friends who were drafted and entered service,went where they were sent and defended our country and her freedom. Some of my close friends went just as I did, only to be injured and return scarred and broken,physically harmed or broken emotionally. dome never returned. And those who did had a difficult time forgetting what they went through. I visit still. the grave of someome eho went to Vietnam,did what he was told to, returned brain injured and later died due to his physical and emotional injuries. He had given his best for America and she gave him nothing when he returned. He was spit at and called a murderer. Yes it bothers me. To have someone compare their sexual exploits to that of combat veterans in Vietnam. It bothers me that the sacrifices made by noble men are to be small and unimportant. They didn't have rich fathers who could buy a diagnosis of bone spurs,they went and they gave their all, when they would have preferred to stay home if they had a choice. My opinion is that of courage and strength will always be honored and respected. That of cowardice will always be refuted and scorned. I didn't like cowards then and don't like them today. I do not believe they had the best interests of the country preserve. My opinion matters not to anyone,other than me however. I gave my best with deferred vision and still managed to serve. I didn't write love letters in the sand or pursue sexual exploits as a personal Vietnam. I spent my Vietnam even with poor vision serving my country with pride and respect.
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Also SSG Seidel, did you ever study McNamara's Project 100,000 ?? I was a training officer at Fort McClellan, AL in 1967-68 and one cycle we got a complete Detroit street gang. Their court judge gave them a choice of going to jail or going into the Army. They chose the Army. For some reason the Army didn't break up the gang in basic training. We got them in Advanced Infantry Training. The only person that they feared was my senior drill sergeant who had "soldiered" his way out of Fort Leavenworth prison. He had killed a man in a bar room brawl in Germany and was sentenced to Fort Leavenworth. I learned a lot from him. If a troop came to him with a problem, he would move mountains to get that problem solved for that troop.
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SSG Gerhard S.
I have not heard of this story. Thank you for sharing. It sounds intriguing, and something I will doubtlessly spend some time learning more.
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I have a friend who left the US and went to Canada to avoid the draft and the war in Vietnam. He has been a Canadian citizen and lived in Canada ever since then. I met him in about 2012 in Uganda while we were both doing military type contractor work for our respective governments. Ironically he had retired from the Canadian army. After we got to know each other the fact that he had left the US way back when he was 18 to dodge the draft came up. I asked him why he left and he said that then he was young and dumb and that he now wished that he had not done it. Most of us did really dumb things when we were teenagers. So, in this specific case, I choose to forgive and forget. Who am I to judge a man who turned out to live a life of service to his country.
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