Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
250K
6.15K
2.36K
646
646
0
I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
you used a whole lot of space to say nothing, so I will put it to you in a nut shell, If you ran to canada to avoid the draft, you are a coward and should be punished if and when you returned, If you were against the draft and stood your ground and went to jail, then you stood up for what you believed in. AND if you were against the draft and went anyway because you were an American than you were an honorable [person. that's the end of that, see---I did not take up any space fcr the kum baiy ya P.C, or other nonsense. This is basically what you wanted to say wasn't it?.
(1)
(0)
SPC Steve dePinet
You don't address the issue of deferments, which some imply could be more easily obtained by the wealthy... I recognize SSG Gerhard Seidel's statement, above, but would like to see your opinion on that (deferments), too.
(1)
(0)
The draft for the Vietnam war was bogus. It was a pointless war that ended up being a meat grinding drug bender. Not to mention no real mission and a fugazy objective. My step dad served in Vietnam. He said the real battle was staying away from the mass about of drugs.
So anyone that dodged THAT particular draft... I got no problem with.
So anyone that dodged THAT particular draft... I got no problem with.
(1)
(0)
I was drafted and it upset my short term plans. But I value the experience, even the bad ones and love my brothers at arms. But some didn’t make it back to the world alive. Do I resent Trump and others who actively dodged the draft. Hell yes. They should have had the balls to take their lottery ticket and see if they came back alive. Anyone in my unit who didn’t make it back is a better man than those who weaseled their way out of the draft with trumpeted up injuries. I am color blind and I made it through the selection station. When I stand at the wall I am in awe that I am here and that so many good men and women aren’t because they were willing to put their body on the hard bloody line of defending our country. And I also feel comraderie with those who wore the different uniform and did the same for their country. We did it for something you can’t get by dodging the draft. Hell yes I think that draft dodgers are cowards. Trump asked why anyone would serve and give their life and called those who did and who died “losers.” Those words blaspheme to hallowed sacrifice of our fellow soldiers alive and dead.
(1)
(0)
SSG (Join to see)
Show us the video that you have that proves Trump called anyone "losers".
Congrats for making the trip but you were sadly involved in a meat grinding drug bender with no real objective or clear mission.
Congrats for making the trip but you were sadly involved in a meat grinding drug bender with no real objective or clear mission.
(1)
(0)
37 troopers / Brothers KIA from my company A/2nd/502 101st Abn 1966 . RA , US , Gave all , trump gave 0
(1)
(0)
Really? What draft? Are you talking about the one which ended in the 1970s? Suck it up and get over it. Jimmy Carter gave amnesty to all the "Draft Dodgers". That ended the issue. Heck, most of the people drafted are between 50-90 and most of them don't care or don't remember the draft.
(1)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. One might suggest those who were drafted, and forced to "serve", both care and remember. Additionally, the families, spouses, and children of those who died, remember very well.
Regards to you though.
Regards to you though.
(1)
(0)
1968,Gulf of Tonkin resultion,fires in American cities after MLK assasination, dead high school classmates from Vietnam forced me to join USAF, July 1968 in Chicago.
The MEPS was full of enlistees and draftees,outside the Chicago Dem convention was going on.
1 in 3 draftees were now Marines.
I was forced to go into the military by politicians.
I was not rich enough to go to college but physically fit.
Any person who had money ,could afford a doctor to lie about physical fitness does not get my support as a POTUS.
Plain and simple.
When I got out at Travis in 1972 people were spitting at me .
The truth is how many of DJT classmates served or are honored on the Wall?
The MEPS was full of enlistees and draftees,outside the Chicago Dem convention was going on.
1 in 3 draftees were now Marines.
I was forced to go into the military by politicians.
I was not rich enough to go to college but physically fit.
Any person who had money ,could afford a doctor to lie about physical fitness does not get my support as a POTUS.
Plain and simple.
When I got out at Travis in 1972 people were spitting at me .
The truth is how many of DJT classmates served or are honored on the Wall?
(1)
(0)
Conscription has been part of the military since before Christ. The problem is when it is an inequitable system. Some countries like Vietnam and Communist China had systems which took pride in equal service by all. That was 50 years ago and those systems may have been corrupted by now. It doesn’t bother me, I don’t want to be dragged down pulling the unwilling along. Not that it was my experience. Draftees were among the best soldiers I had. They were more settled than Regular Army RA. The option to “ push up your draft” moving yourself to the top of the list, Got you two years at the convenience of the Army.
I always felt that conscripts should not be sent to Vietnam. There were openings in CONUS and Europe. Drag some of the Homesteaders out of Germany. Last thing I would need was Pvt Donald Trump wanting to debate me about the legality of orders.
I always felt that conscripts should not be sent to Vietnam. There were openings in CONUS and Europe. Drag some of the Homesteaders out of Germany. Last thing I would need was Pvt Donald Trump wanting to debate me about the legality of orders.
(1)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Pay, support,and compensate them enough, and you'll have all the volunteers you want. A draft is how government's acquire conscripts on the cheap.
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your thoughtful, and comprehensive thoughts, on this issue. I was moved by the amount of content you addressed, and by your ability to stay on point, while addressing the many questions, and answers provided by this article. Regards
(2)
(0)
Read This Next


Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
