Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
What about dodging the draft using bogus deferments? Would you believe we had 4 PRESIDENTS who did just that-Clinton,Bush Trump and yes Biden. I have explained before-if there is interest,will do it again.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you sir, for your service, and for sharing your view on this issue. As stated in the original question. If we take a moment and explore the concept that defines the draft, i.e. involuntary servitude, or, at its worst, slavery, it becomes difficult to blame anybody for dodging, or even running away from compulsory "service". Respectful regards
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As far as politician are concerned you cannot find a handful that served in the armed forces prier to 9/11. Trump did not serve, neither did Bidden or Obama. I '69 You had 4 choices, drafted, Peace core, or run. So from my point of view, who is best for me?
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SSG Gerhard S.
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney I suspect, if you look closer you'll find I only write that, if the respondent fails to address the context of the article. Responding to the first line, without addressing any of the reasons behind it, could be an indicator that the article hasn't been read. I'm happy you took the time to read the article, and am happy to discuss it with you. Respectful regards.
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A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SSG Gerhard S. -
In Short, "You're Guessing"?
And From What I've Read, You're Not As Interested In Discussing ~
As Much As Telling Others What To Think, ? ... Which Is Your Way?
I Just Get The Feeling, "I Don't Understand What You're Doing" .. Not You ~ Me.
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In Short, "You're Guessing"?
And From What I've Read, You're Not As Interested In Discussing ~
As Much As Telling Others What To Think, ? ... Which Is Your Way?
I Just Get The Feeling, "I Don't Understand What You're Doing" .. Not You ~ Me.
.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Actually, you left out the 5th choice, jail. Of course, if forced into any of those, against one's will, the result is a loss of one's freedom.
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SSG Gerhard S.
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney though I DO share my opinion, I don't believe I've told anyone what to think.
Again, if there's any point listed in the article with which you disagree, or something I wrote that you'd like clarification on, I'm always happy to have a discussion. Have a great day!
Again, if there's any point listed in the article with which you disagree, or something I wrote that you'd like clarification on, I'm always happy to have a discussion. Have a great day!
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I do agree to a certain extent but honestly to play devils advocate I think the government should make every student who graduates from high school either join the mandatory 2 year military service or choose the opt out version either going to school or other special intersex jobs fields to be honest.
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NO PERSON, regardless of reason, should be allowed to be elected into a position or office that can send someone into harm's way that never in a position to have been sent themselves. Nuff Said.
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SrA Cecelia Eareckson
SSG Roger Ayscue - Your subsequent comment specifically states "NO ONE who did not wear a uniform and could have been sent into harm's way...". "Nuff said."
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SrA Cecelia Eareckson
BTW, Nixon stayed well out of harm's way. He drew up manifests and supervised loading and unloading of cargo. Gosh, I did as much as an E2-4. He only got field grade as a weekend warrior.
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SSG Roger Ayscue
SrA Cecelia Eareckson - But he went into the service, did what he was ordered to do and was discharged at some point, honorably. I am saying that to eliminate the elitists, on both sides of the aisle, from sending the "Less" to fight wars that need not be fought to begin with, that only add to the profits of this one or that one, if it were a requirement to be a veteran to hold those offices, you would see less needless deployments.
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SrA Cecelia Eareckson
I doubt it, but that would take a line-by-line reading of who did what. I used to lean in that direction myself, but we are only dealing with that third generation insane dictator in North Korea, because Ford, a Navy veteran, wimped out on using nukes after the axe murders at the DMZ.
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Nah. I joined to get away from home and for the goodies, like most people, regardless of the Freiheit fairy tale. My husband was drafted (getting him double tinnitus, a weather-predicting bone, and a cameo in Forrest Gump), and wished he'd "gone to Canada." I later marched with hippies against the draft. War is for stupid people. And thieves. There's a meme going around "Hi! We hear you have oil - let us bring you democracy!" Note: the military is moving toward green energy because they're tired of all the blood for oil.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your service, and for sharing your perspective. One thing is certain, war is messy, wasteful, and pays little regard to the environment. I suspect, ultimately, though our military may talk about using "green energy" it will never be implemented until it no longer hinders mission objectives, or tactical effectiveness. There's a long way to go before that happens. Respectful regards
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The only thing I disagree with is the statement of only wanting those who’ve willingly joined to be fighting beside me. I’m a Vietnam Vet with Purple Heart. Some of my closest friends were drafted. They fought as hard and well as those of us who joined, sometimes bled or died, because when it comes right down to it, you fight for your buddies and to stay alive, not for flag or country. You learn that the enemy does the same thing, so you learn to respect them too. Finally, wars should be fought on all fronts, so you learn to forgive the draft dodgers, even the wealthy ones who bought their way out of the draft with fake injuries and flunking school grades. It’s all part of the mental healing process, part of ridding yourself of hate.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your thoughts, and experiences on this issue. Your comments are well received. I would like to add that my statement regarding wanting to serve with volunteers was not intended to disparage the service, honor, or valor of draftees.
Best wishes, and respectful regards.
Best wishes, and respectful regards.
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I enlisted. I was able to pick my first duty station. Many in my unit were 2yr draftees.... I couldn't care less what others did. They have to deal with what they did. It does not affect me so why waste time feeling one way or the other? It's just wasteful time I can spend doing something productive. If the draft were re-instated how many do you think would bail now??? With Women in combat roles would they have to be eligible also?
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SSG Gerhard S.
@spc Rodger Bell. Thank you for your service, and for taking thetime to comment on this issue. One might suggest it's not fair to force any of our young men or women into forced servitude. THIS is the actual point of the article. Respectful Regards
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To serve or not is a personal choice today.
I chose to serve (1992-2016). I grew up on military bases overseas and state side during the Vietnam War.
My issue is with those that took deferment or just flat out didn't serve claiming to support the military and veterans but whose actions prove otherwise. And I especially dislike all the "Chickenhawks" .
I chose to serve (1992-2016). I grew up on military bases overseas and state side during the Vietnam War.
My issue is with those that took deferment or just flat out didn't serve claiming to support the military and veterans but whose actions prove otherwise. And I especially dislike all the "Chickenhawks" .
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your thoughts, and perspective on this issue!
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