Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
250K
6.15K
2.36K
646
646
0
I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
Total freedom does not exist in this world. We are dependent on somebody or something throughout our life. There will always be the givers and takers. Received my draft notice in 1967, made a decision to join and have a choice in my MOS. That decision was based on family values instilled in me, you give in order to get. We would not be a free country today if there were no givers, what makes the next person any different than me? That draft notice changed my direction, without it I can truthfully say that there was no direction. In context, this is not a free country, somebody has to pay the price. I support a draft, it will get you off your booty.
(2)
(0)
Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing. We were in the Big Sand Box together! I served in OIF III, 04-05. Baghdad, Bucca, Abu Ghraib and Ashraf. You? Anyhow, we have laws. If you break the law there are consequences. Politicizing the draft doesn't change it or the rules. If you break the rules, you pay the price, or should. I am exceedingly proud of our all volunteer military, especially those who joined after 9/11/2001, knowing they could be going to war. I joined in 1986, and was in anyway for the s**t. I was honored to serve with these selfless patriots. Since the draft riots of the Civil War, the question has been, in a democracy, is it involuntary servitude to be drafted? Is it rule of exigency to force others to risk their lives for the common good? As a Libertarian, I lean on the side of involuntary servitude. Yet, the common sense part of me says if no one served we'd be speaking German, Japanese or Russian. If you removed resistance to the 2nd Amendment altogether, and folks were able to really organize ourselves into militia, no force on earth could challenge us on our home turf. Drafting to defend the nation seems like such a desperate act, but currently, the WOKE military is not able to fill open spots, and the future does not look bright. My question is, are draftees what we really want on the front lines or manning communications, missiles defense systems, etc. The modern military requires highly qualified, not barely or underqualified recruits. We need the best and brightest, not the margins of society. And we need them motivated, not reluctant.
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for your thoughtful comments on this matter.
Regarding Iraq, I was there from Feb 04, to Feb 05, at Abu Ghraib until May, and then to Camp Victory as our platoon's base of operations.
Honored to have served this great country for over 22 years, increasingly concerned about our government's penchant for it's involvement in perpetual war.
It's little wonder we're having difficulty filling the ranks given the current issues that you stated.
Is the answer to force unwilling recruits into that atmosphere? Or, alternatively, to perhaps make the politician/bureaucrat class recognize that such a climate does not lead to an effective force?
I know which course I would choose. I suspect those in DC might be more in favor of the authoritarian tack.
Great points my friend. Respectful regards
Regarding Iraq, I was there from Feb 04, to Feb 05, at Abu Ghraib until May, and then to Camp Victory as our platoon's base of operations.
Honored to have served this great country for over 22 years, increasingly concerned about our government's penchant for it's involvement in perpetual war.
It's little wonder we're having difficulty filling the ranks given the current issues that you stated.
Is the answer to force unwilling recruits into that atmosphere? Or, alternatively, to perhaps make the politician/bureaucrat class recognize that such a climate does not lead to an effective force?
I know which course I would choose. I suspect those in DC might be more in favor of the authoritarian tack.
Great points my friend. Respectful regards
(1)
(0)
MAJ Montgomery Granger
I was at Abu from Dec '04 - late Jan '05, back and forth a bit to Camp Victory (18th MP BDE TOC on Lost Lake) until APR 1, '05, the day before the Battle for Abu Ghraib - off the Ashraf for six months! Hooah! It's frustrating being controlled by civilians (DoD) who may or may not have a clue or even care about whether or not a draftee is a quality recruit. They count heads and beans.
(1)
(0)
I received my draft notice in late summer 1967 after finishing high school in June. Although I was in agreement with the reasons for us being in South Vietnam, I did not support the way the US was conducting the war. The US Navy had a recruitment incentive guaranteeing 'no Pacific theater' assignments. I enlisted under those terms and served on a destroyer escort in the Atlantic. So, in essence, I am a legal draft dodger who was able to retain my personal honor.
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your service. I suspect few would consider your actions "draft Dodging". Respectful regards!
(1)
(0)
The correct answer to this questions, YES, they all are traitors with no exception, yes you could have been against the war but they all could have done alternative service as some did. These traitors based on their desertion should not have any rights and all should be in jail or SHOT! I did not agree with the war but I decided to see for myself so I served 37 years DOING WHAT WAS BEST AND RIGHT, I DID NOT RUN!
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you Sir, for your voluntary service to our country. It was my honor to also serve voluntarily for 22 years.
One wonders though, from where the obligation of forced service originates. One might suggest it is a product of tyranny. Lastly, given our government's record of sending our young men and women abroad to fight wars, only to lose their lives, their limbs, or their mental health, only to later abandon the cause, may just leave thinking persons to wonder if it's a good idea to submit to the tyranny of forced servitude, at the political whims of politicians, and bureaucrats.
Respectful regards, and again, thank you for your voluntary service to our great country.
One wonders though, from where the obligation of forced service originates. One might suggest it is a product of tyranny. Lastly, given our government's record of sending our young men and women abroad to fight wars, only to lose their lives, their limbs, or their mental health, only to later abandon the cause, may just leave thinking persons to wonder if it's a good idea to submit to the tyranny of forced servitude, at the political whims of politicians, and bureaucrats.
Respectful regards, and again, thank you for your voluntary service to our great country.
(0)
(0)
Personally I'd Have Liked To See Them Charged With Desertion.
I Have Absolutely NO Respect For Those Bastards..
I Have Absolutely NO Respect For Those Bastards..
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your (presumably) voluntary service, and for sharing your perspective on this issue of involuntary servitude.
(1)
(0)
A1C Medrick "Rick" DeVaney
SSG Gerhard S. -
Enlisted At 17... On My 17th Birthday.. 06/29/1961 ~ 06/10/1965
Returned From Panama To Do So...Was Living & Going To School There.
During My Enlistment We Had The Cuban Crisis ~ Vietnam War ~ Cold War ~ Assassination Of President John F. Kennedy~
Bay Of Pigs screw-up too...~ We Crapped All Over Cuba ~ Damned Sad.~ Great People!
Enlisted At 17... On My 17th Birthday.. 06/29/1961 ~ 06/10/1965
Returned From Panama To Do So...Was Living & Going To School There.
During My Enlistment We Had The Cuban Crisis ~ Vietnam War ~ Cold War ~ Assassination Of President John F. Kennedy~
Bay Of Pigs screw-up too...~ We Crapped All Over Cuba ~ Damned Sad.~ Great People!
(0)
(0)
My father was a lifer, 3 wars. He became an anti-war pacifist so I learned from him.
His advice advice to me was to volunteer for the draft so I wouldn't get sent to Vietnam, so I served as a US Navy Musician and never even got on board a ship. I was a REMFer
His advice advice to me was to volunteer for the draft so I wouldn't get sent to Vietnam, so I served as a US Navy Musician and never even got on board a ship. I was a REMFer
(2)
(0)
CA Jonathan Mann
I didn't have a choice, it was the law so I enlisted as an REMFer to avoid combat. I considered the Peace Corps.
I totally understood Muhammed Ali's decision as an conscientious objector as it wasn't a just war.
We weren't fighting for freedom; Communism was never sustainable, nor was it ever a remote possibility in America where we have the kind of socialism that gives a man a fish, rather than teach him to fish.
The domino theory actually operated in reverse for capitalism; Russia and China have totalitarian capitalist economies.
Furthermore, Blacks, Hispanics and poor Whites were sent into combat in disproportionate numbers. Once middle class kids were dying the draft was ended.
I totally understood Muhammed Ali's decision as an conscientious objector as it wasn't a just war.
We weren't fighting for freedom; Communism was never sustainable, nor was it ever a remote possibility in America where we have the kind of socialism that gives a man a fish, rather than teach him to fish.
The domino theory actually operated in reverse for capitalism; Russia and China have totalitarian capitalist economies.
Furthermore, Blacks, Hispanics and poor Whites were sent into combat in disproportionate numbers. Once middle class kids were dying the draft was ended.
(1)
(0)
(0)
(0)
Unfortunately we have a society that is not pro military. During both world wars young people were motivated to defend our way of life & I am thankful for all those before us.
Those who ‘dodged’ the draft legally, great. Those who ran, well, I don’t want to start a debate about what I think, but just like the immigrants coming here illegally, they should not benefit from any of our freedoms.
Those who ‘dodged’ the draft legally, great. Those who ran, well, I don’t want to start a debate about what I think, but just like the immigrants coming here illegally, they should not benefit from any of our freedoms.
(2)
(0)
someone using their wealth power and position and by paying off others, getting a deferral under less than honest circumstances, while others served and sacrificed their lives, deserves to go to jail at least and to have their rights curtailed so that they cannot corrupt our union of the people again
(2)
(0)
rich people who use wealth and power to avoid military service during times of war do not deserve any forgiveness. they dishonored themselves. giving years of free rent to a foot doctor whose report is used to avoid serving is dishonorable
i enlisted during the Cuba crisis.
during the vietnam war one of my housemates was a medal of honor winner who threw his medal of honor into the Potomac. two of my brothers were draft dodgers... both lucked out when their physicians falsified their health records. another brother was deferred because of albumen in their urine. another brother, a junior law partner of richard m nixon, while serving in the national guard got a discharge after serving part time for about a year: he requested a transfer to a unit closer to his wall street office and got discharged: guess which bothers consider by my actually serving in the military and having va disability, i am a malingerer. and who considers my university degrees as a veteran to be the fraud.
my two draft dodging brothers and i agree on the same basic responsibility of patriotism and love of country. the other two brothers agree on the love of money
i enlisted during the Cuba crisis.
during the vietnam war one of my housemates was a medal of honor winner who threw his medal of honor into the Potomac. two of my brothers were draft dodgers... both lucked out when their physicians falsified their health records. another brother was deferred because of albumen in their urine. another brother, a junior law partner of richard m nixon, while serving in the national guard got a discharge after serving part time for about a year: he requested a transfer to a unit closer to his wall street office and got discharged: guess which bothers consider by my actually serving in the military and having va disability, i am a malingerer. and who considers my university degrees as a veteran to be the fraud.
my two draft dodging brothers and i agree on the same basic responsibility of patriotism and love of country. the other two brothers agree on the love of money
(2)
(0)
SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for comprehensively sharing your experiences, thoughts, and opinions on this question.
(1)
(0)
I don't care if they draft dodged, ran north, claimed Rhodes Scholarship, whatever, UNLESS they protested (by throwing garbage and feces at my husband) THEN claim vet status to get benefits from the VA.
(2)
(0)
Read This Next


Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
