Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
My dad was among those drafted. Another relative not only fled the country but completely changed his legal name because he was that determined to not get drafted and also to avoid any government retaliation.
I am forever grateful that my dad is not a name on that black granite wall. As to the other person? I don't know. I only know he dodged the draft because my mom told me about it. What I know him best for is posting our family's genealogy information many years ago; long before ancestry.com became a thing. Same for documents my great-grandfather wrote. I'd never have had any idea of my great-grandfather's voice if it wasn't for him.
We're all people, and we all make good and bad decisions. What will our 5-greats grandchildren think we were? Demi-gods?
I am forever grateful that my dad is not a name on that black granite wall. As to the other person? I don't know. I only know he dodged the draft because my mom told me about it. What I know him best for is posting our family's genealogy information many years ago; long before ancestry.com became a thing. Same for documents my great-grandfather wrote. I'd never have had any idea of my great-grandfather's voice if it wasn't for him.
We're all people, and we all make good and bad decisions. What will our 5-greats grandchildren think we were? Demi-gods?
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your service, and for sharing your personal experience, and perspective on this topic.
Service ISN'T for everyone, and forced servitude shouldn't be for anyone. The only things society should demand from us are to be good person, and to be a productive member of that society, rather than be a burden upon it.
Service ISN'T for everyone, and forced servitude shouldn't be for anyone. The only things society should demand from us are to be good person, and to be a productive member of that society, rather than be a burden upon it.
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Perception seems to be more important these days than actual fact and the rule of law. Not choosing sides however out of the last three Presidents we have had i would not want to serve with any of them or there VP's in a Military environment.
The only one that i would serve under as a Commander and Chief would be Trump.
True Draft Doggers i have a dislike for. Because they are the most mouthy and disrespectful of the ones who did serve.
Biden had breathing problems even when he played football No need for him in the military and he fit the do not draft do not enlist category. Obama Well let me say he would be to busy running off at the mouth and Telling everyone what he would and would not do he would not have made it through BCT. Trump met the do not draft do not enlist category. Last person on want on my team is someone who cannot walk on unlevel ground, and is a liability to the rest of the team. JMTC
The only one that i would serve under as a Commander and Chief would be Trump.
True Draft Doggers i have a dislike for. Because they are the most mouthy and disrespectful of the ones who did serve.
Biden had breathing problems even when he played football No need for him in the military and he fit the do not draft do not enlist category. Obama Well let me say he would be to busy running off at the mouth and Telling everyone what he would and would not do he would not have made it through BCT. Trump met the do not draft do not enlist category. Last person on want on my team is someone who cannot walk on unlevel ground, and is a liability to the rest of the team. JMTC
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I guess I resent anyone who did whatever they could to avoid the draft rather than serving their country. I enlisted and volunteered for Nam. Only thing I ever requested of the Navy that I actually got. I took crap from people when I got back and again later when I got out including the VFW. I pretty much kept my service to myself for a decade to avoid the frequent revulsion I got from people at he time.
The straw that really broke it for me was when Carter got elected and one of the first things he did was tell everyone that ran off to Canada to come back home. All was forgiven. That single act made me defect from the democratic party and I'll never go back. It still angers me greatly.
I suppose everyone has their pet peeve about the things that were said and done to returning Nam vets. Carter's ineptitude and complete disrespect tops my list.
It still kind of bothers me a bit when anyone thanks me for my service. It took decades for that to even begin and now, if they're in my age range, I can't help but wonder if they were in the group that was so very critical of us at the time. They'll tell you if they served and I enjoy hearing from other veterans of any period but there's a good chance the ones that never served were saying things a lot less friendly around 55 years ago.
It's an old insult that won't ever heal completely for me.
The straw that really broke it for me was when Carter got elected and one of the first things he did was tell everyone that ran off to Canada to come back home. All was forgiven. That single act made me defect from the democratic party and I'll never go back. It still angers me greatly.
I suppose everyone has their pet peeve about the things that were said and done to returning Nam vets. Carter's ineptitude and complete disrespect tops my list.
It still kind of bothers me a bit when anyone thanks me for my service. It took decades for that to even begin and now, if they're in my age range, I can't help but wonder if they were in the group that was so very critical of us at the time. They'll tell you if they served and I enjoy hearing from other veterans of any period but there's a good chance the ones that never served were saying things a lot less friendly around 55 years ago.
It's an old insult that won't ever heal completely for me.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for sharing your thoughts and experiences.
I'm curious though, is one "serving" their country when they're being forced to serve, or are they being involuntarily placed in a position of servitude?
It might not seem so bad until the same politicians who placed people there pulled everyone out after 60,000 + American deaths with no gains to show for it.
I find it hard to blame people given our politicians lack of follow- through.
Respectful regards.
I'm curious though, is one "serving" their country when they're being forced to serve, or are they being involuntarily placed in a position of servitude?
It might not seem so bad until the same politicians who placed people there pulled everyone out after 60,000 + American deaths with no gains to show for it.
I find it hard to blame people given our politicians lack of follow- through.
Respectful regards.
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PO2 Michael Jarboe
SSG Gerhard S. - It was both the law and the expectation at the time. The draft was part of it and people were called to duty before Viet Nam in the same manner. I don't recall hearing anyone getting to testy about the draft until they were actually being sent into conflict. I'm not sure our society wouldn't benefit by a restart of the draft. The youth of today just don't seem to get it.
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Not bothered if Donald Trump didn't serve when he is our current President for the 2nd term after all. Definitely tops the other draft dodgers and the "almost joined" who became nothing in life with little to no contributions to society besides being problematic and destructive.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your service, and for sharing your thoughts. One suspects though that you didn't read past the first paragraph or two or you may have realized this article is about the larger issue of the morality of the draft. Respectful regards.
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SPC Clark Stinson
SSG Gerhard S. - Definitely read the entire article. Yet, it mentioned President Trump as this one seen in past posts on social media, mentioning his name tends to turn into a political arguments. The comment wasn't aimed for the entire article. Yet, it's not like the draft never existed throughout human history during any wartime, just that it was never labeled as "draft". Also taken into account in the far past during wartime of any, if you're a male and that of abled age to pick up a weapon, you're definitely fighting.
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People who send you out to fight for them, should be available to fight for you. That's it in a nut shell. Nuff said.
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While I'm not a fan of those who dodged the draft, I'm even less of a fan of those who dodged the draft and do their best to minimize the sacrifices of those who raised their hand and said, "this I will defend."
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your comments, and for your service. Did you read the article? Just curious.
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SSG Eric Blue
SSG Gerhard S. I did. It was longer than I expected, but I appreciate you defining servitude and slavery.
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Someone has to go or we will NOT be a Democracy. What I don't like is using a medical excuse of a "Heel Spur" with NO x-ray proof and then playing 18 holes of golf. Personally, I think every citizen should contribute some time to the Country in some way.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Firstly, thank you for your service. Respectfully, though, I'm not sure I understand your comment. Are you saying we can only maintain a democracy by mandatorily forcing servitude upon our citizens?
While I agree service is commendable, I also believe it should be voluntary. Lastly, a question: Aren't people being of service to the country simply by being law abiding, productive members of society?
While I agree service is commendable, I also believe it should be voluntary. Lastly, a question: Aren't people being of service to the country simply by being law abiding, productive members of society?
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SP5 Delphis Kaczowski
This country CANNOT match "CHINA'S five (5) million man army combined with Russia's Three (3) million man army with a "VOLUNTEER" American military. A draft board has to be able to choose the civilians the service needs from local communities if a world war breaks out again. If you have a better method of protecting our Democracy, let us all in on the secret.
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I cannot understand your feelings But, only mine those who skipped out made a choice and THat is what this country is all about. Remember, this is an apathetic society Damm us but one evader even grew up to be POTUS for 2 terms Live as if this never happened and LIVE the rest of your life in happiness and calm without the extra grief.
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The biggest problem is knowing which is real & what is bogus. One person or yells danger does it make it so. RVN backed into a communist system most of them did not want. Like most projects there are different view of the end result. Military Engineers I know used to keep a cartoon showing different results of a project on their wall. One figure showed customer desire, one engineer, another the reality of what was possible, etc. Pin point what you want before determining. Parties involved is what I am referring to. Served in South RVN in 71/72, Europe 69/71. As an IMA I was involved in number of other projects over the years. Got involved in DOI projects and the same rules applied.
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