Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
One other question on this topic: Since the new Selective Service Law (which was signed into law sometime in the early 1980's, or maybe 1979), has anyone actually been drafted? I was under the impression that there have been sufficient volunteers to keep up the needed manning levels so that no one has had to be drafted, but that's just my impression.
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SSG Gerhard S.
The fact that noone's been drafted since the 1980's is immaterial. The fact that people need to register for selective service means their future, and choices are uncertain, and dependent upon the whims of politicians who, historically have no conjunction regarding the exemption of their own progeny.
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SPC Steve dePinet
SSG Gerhard S. - I wasn't commenting on the validity of the law, just asking if it had ever been used to force a person into Service. Didn't think so, but my impression has been wrong in the past, so I was just checking.
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SSG Gerhard S.
As far as I know, no one has bed drafted under that selective service law. Though the question remains, if we're really going to NOT draft people, why do we require people to register for selective service?
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I was incensed at former President Clinton getting out of the Draft with his Education Deferments, including running to the UK to do so, and was arguing with my dad (also a US Army Vet) and asked him: "If you had the chance to use you position to get me out of being drafted, would you have done so?". He said YES, absolutely. Now, I volunteered in 1978, well after the Vietnam Era Draft ended, and served thru 1982, when the new draft was initiated, so it really wasn't an issue in my case, but I was flabbergasted at dad, until I became a parent of a son (who is now a US Marine Vet), but I considered it duty to server (or, at least register for the draft, in case my presence was required).
OTOH, I was an Army PFC, sitting at my desk, in Worms Germany, reading the Stars and Stripes, and saw that there was a new draft law, and told my NCOIC, "Hey, Sgt Bryant, it says here that I need to go to the Post Office and register for the draft". He laughed, and I did not go. After I ETS'd, the Selective Service Admin sent a letter to my home of record, which my mom opened and she later told me that it was a threat that if I didn't register for the draft, they were going to send the FBI after my ass. She sent them a copy of my DD214, and they sent back a letter saying "Thank you for doing your duty and registerring for the draft" or some such. I never registered, so I guess that I'm veteran, while being a draft dodger, but I'm a Vet, first.
So, I have very mixed feelings on the subject of draft dodgers, and on those who used the legal system to get deferments. But, I believe that I did my duty, and that's who I need to worry about, not someone else.
OTOH, I was an Army PFC, sitting at my desk, in Worms Germany, reading the Stars and Stripes, and saw that there was a new draft law, and told my NCOIC, "Hey, Sgt Bryant, it says here that I need to go to the Post Office and register for the draft". He laughed, and I did not go. After I ETS'd, the Selective Service Admin sent a letter to my home of record, which my mom opened and she later told me that it was a threat that if I didn't register for the draft, they were going to send the FBI after my ass. She sent them a copy of my DD214, and they sent back a letter saying "Thank you for doing your duty and registerring for the draft" or some such. I never registered, so I guess that I'm veteran, while being a draft dodger, but I'm a Vet, first.
So, I have very mixed feelings on the subject of draft dodgers, and on those who used the legal system to get deferments. But, I believe that I did my duty, and that's who I need to worry about, not someone else.
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SPC Steve dePinet
SSG Gerhard S. - Sorry, I don't see where you or I used "conjunction", or "compunction".
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and experiences that shaped your thinking on this issue.
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As a Vietnam vet, I can still feel my blood boil regarding those who dodged the draft. They still get the same rights as i, but never had the stones to serve their country,. I harbor no ill will against them today ,but if we were able to see what happened during WWII, we would find some of he same type behavior of tha tera, though not displayed as protesters and street gangs, but of ordinary folks that didn't believe in war or killing. We must look at the individual and see the good in them today. Yesterday was a long time ago. LIVE AND LET LIVE has been my thoughts since coming back from the war and I to this day have no ill feelings for those who decided not to serve.
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Bidon beat the draft too.
Very disliked war (Vietnam) lot of people beat the draft one way or another.
That war is a thing of the past tome to move on.
Very disliked war (Vietnam) lot of people beat the draft one way or another.
That war is a thing of the past tome to move on.
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If you left the country then took the pardon to return well i have only two words for that kind of coward. If you went on to serve your prison time i salute your conviction, if you found another way to serve your country you also get a salute. If you used influence of others to get out of military service/combat duty well you get the same two word i have for those that accepted a pardon.
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few know that 4 Presidents dodged the draft-Vietnam: Clinton,Bush,Trump and yes,Biden
BTW I served 32 months in Vietnam if you want explanation for each email [login to see]
BTW I served 32 months in Vietnam if you want explanation for each email [login to see]
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Few know that 4 Presidents dodged the draft-during Vietnam war. Clinton, Bush,Trump and yes Biden
BTW,I served 32 months in Vietnam--if you want the explanation for each email [login to see]
BTW,I served 32 months in Vietnam--if you want the explanation for each email [login to see]
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Not any more. I once cussed ‘em up and down but not now. Leave ‘em alone. They’ve suffered enough, trying to explain to their grandkids how they screwed up so royally. I wouldn’t want to have to do that.
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It appears to me you did not serve during the Vietnam Era and lived through those times. This is a free country because when called upon to serve men stood up in defense of this Country. Home of the Free Because of the Brave. I served from 71-74 was never sent to Vietnam like many I served with. The ones who legally avoided the draft so be it as a friend of mine was able to do so his father was a doctor with the VA. He is still my friend I do no harbor any bad feeling toward him. Those that dodged the draft and fled to Canada so someone else had to go in their place I do not trust and will never trust. This Country did not Mean anything to them Then and Much less Now!
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and experiences. One may say those who fled to avoid forced servitude, are the bad guys. Another might suggest the politicians forcing servitude upon a generation of our young, not to defend America, but rather to serve, suffer, or die in a war they prosecuted, without a path to victory, might, more appropriately be labeled the bad guys. Respectful regards.
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