Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
Those who avoided the draft and did not step up as an American meant someone else had to take his place in V.N.
What if that "Someone else" came home in a mental flag covered coffin? Who really killed him?
The draft dodger or the person behind the AK-47?
Have a drink on me answering that question.
What if that "Someone else" came home in a mental flag covered coffin? Who really killed him?
The draft dodger or the person behind the AK-47?
Have a drink on me answering that question.
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SSG Gerhard S.
I'm actually a Libertarian, and a Constitutionalist who believes in the individual rights, and limited government described in our Constitution.
That being said, do you have a comment regarding the question, or are you only interested in attacking the author, (incorrectly I might add)?
Respectful Regards
That being said, do you have a comment regarding the question, or are you only interested in attacking the author, (incorrectly I might add)?
Respectful Regards
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SSG Jeffery Payne
What this person is saying is, it is ok to break the law and nothing will happen to you. I have more respect for the men who went to jail and not to Canada . They did their time and went back to society. The law breakers shouldn't get a free ride. If you pick and choose what laws you will obey and which you won't then you are against the U.S. government. It is not slavery or indentured servitude, it is the law. Which our country is run by. I have nothing against the author, just his views against our government. It sounds more anti-government and do what you want not do as you should. If you don't like the law, our form of government has ways to change it..
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SSG Gerhard S.
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson
Respectful regards.
Respectful regards.
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SPC John Tacetta
SSG Gerhard S. - I'm glad to hear that you honor your oath and support the Constitution. I trust you've referred to my citations I provided you in another thread. You are required by the Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution to answer the call when it comes. You cannot pick and choose.
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...only with those whose surname is a five-letter word beginning with "T" and ending with "P".
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SMSgt Michael Gleason
The middle-three letters are the same as an alcoholic beverage produced from sugar came primarily in the Caribbean .
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Having spent over 900 days in the Mekong Delta I can't begrudge anyone who didn't spend time in that terrible place. Those of us who went to Vietnam are plagued with nightmares, and a head full of bad memories.
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SFC Greg Bruorton
Patrick, you are on target. It took years for me to realize I had PTSD and horrible visions at night. I am now at peace.
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well I can understand those thoughts from someone younger than myself that being said I disagree with exceptions; when in VN worked and taught along side of US &RA I never heard them say the draft is wrong they may have thought that at sometime? while in Desert Storm I never heard that b4 or after conflict started .of course I was one of RA.And did think like I'm sure most of us did Why did i volunteer but pride over rolled that. BUT My thoughts after I returned home and retired and decided to work saw 20 & 30 year old children with NO work ethic's NO pride in doing a good job? (I'm sure it wasn't everone) but everyone I delt with that didnt have a family member in military or went to military school had a different outlook on work ethic's. we should not force our children join full time but make It mandatory two years in reserve or national guard then go to college or into 1 year active duty military. our young adults (not all ) but a lot want a free ride .my Son God bless his soul had good work ethic's my Daughter same way but chose to go bvb to school instead of Military. but I Know if they had been drafted they both would have been proud to go.
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I lived in a town in Virginia. One American Legion meeting the mayor came in to speak. The post was full of Vietnam vets. The mayor went from a presentation about the community to how he learned to swallow a gum wrapper that made it look like he had a tumor. Because he was in college. It was important for him to finish his college.
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as long as those who did not serve and dodge the draft man up about it.???
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As a Vietnam era veteran, a person who registered for the draft and I enlisted in 1974. If people used policies and laws to avoid the draft, so be it but don’t use the slavery BS to describe your cowardly behavior.
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My contention is that no one should be forced to serve, but those who don’t should not be granted the benefit of citizenship. We have a duty to our country. I don’t mean everyone must serve in the military but there must be a form of National Service. Of course the highest pay would be for those who serve in the military.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for weighing in on this issue. Are you suggesting that our country should have force, and compulsion as it's basis instead of freedom?
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