Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
I sometimes lean towards no we shouldn't. One of the reasons the US Military has the greatest Military in the world, is because we are an all volunteer Military. Like COL Doolittle said, "There is nothing stronger then the heart of a volunteer". The problem during "Drafts" is that the Military isn't getting those volunteers. Vietnam wasn't a huge direct impact on the US like Pearl Harbor or 9/11. Many Americans had no idea why we were even in Vietnam or agreed with what was going on there. I do understand that in the time of direct US interest, where the possibility of war could end up at home. Then all hands need to be on deck. Until then, leave war to us volunteers.
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SSG Gerhard S.
I would also add that such a direct threat to the US would likely Garner more volunteers than we'd know what to do with.
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Why be upset, with the people who were forced to choose. We should be upset with a system that made them have to choose. Anyone who has the authority to send men and women to die or serve in the military, should have a standby to fill their office while they go off to serve with those whom they have sent off. If they are not physically able then their children, spouse or significant other should go in their stead.
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Hard to think of Trump as 'dodging' the draft when he used the means provided by the US Gov't to avoid joining. Now... running across the border to avoid serving... I find that a true act of 'dodging' the draft.
As far as those serving next to you being better quality brothers in arms because they volunteered... I think it doesn't honestly matter too much when you have politicians stepping in and displaying their lack of intestinal fortitude to see the job through to its fruition - resulting in countless warriors' lives lost. Too many lessons forgotten from America's finest generation - those who served during WWII.
As far as those serving next to you being better quality brothers in arms because they volunteered... I think it doesn't honestly matter too much when you have politicians stepping in and displaying their lack of intestinal fortitude to see the job through to its fruition - resulting in countless warriors' lives lost. Too many lessons forgotten from America's finest generation - those who served during WWII.
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SSG Gerhard S., Would you agree that the military isn't for everyone? Have a great Air & Space Day. Defensor Fortis!
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SSG Gerhard S.
MSgt Ken "Airsoldier" Collins-Hardy , I Would indeed agree that the military is not for everyone, and not everyone is suitable for the military.
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No. Why be upset? That's in the past. It doesn't change anything, just brings more division in our country. We need to move forward. The military is not for everyone anyway.
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William Jefferson Clinton; did not serve. Al Gore did. LBJ was an opportunist who served because he saw it as important for his future political plans. Barack Obama did not serve; nor did Hillary R. Clinton or Donald J. Trump. So either way this country is looking at 16 years of a commander in chief with no military experience. In retrospect those who dodged the draft not in accordance with our laws deserve some degree of ire; especially since the likes of Casius Clay were willing to go to prison for their beliefs. What Trump, Clinton, Stallone, Limbaugh and others did was legal and in accordance with our laws. How many used their connections to get their sons into the National Guard to avoid service in Viet Nam? Wasn't this an "equal offense?" Using position and power to avoid service in Viet Nam.
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SGT Rafael Morales
I know many who used connections to go into the reserves to avoid service in Vietnam
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For what the war was as it turned out to be, I regret serving, especially the VA bullshit.
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GySgt William Hardy
I regret nothing and my experience with the VA has been outstanding thus far. I served in Vietnam and in Iraq.
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I think it is human nature to try and avoid danger, especially danger that is forced on us. The draft has been gone for decades, and besides, we have had a President that left the nation and lead demonstrations against the US while smoking dope, and the ones screaming about draft dodgers most now are the ones that voted for him. No matter what he said, I'm sure he inhaled. I dont believe we should worry about the draft dodging as much now unless they try to claim some kind of veteran status.
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One can understand that if the rules are there then they should be used when necessary and during reasonable times. However, it takes a special kind of douchebag to coward out when your fellow Americans need you the most. I do believe President Trump is a coward and a con. His behavior during the Helsinki press conference shows nothing less than a coward standing next to someone who could kick his sorry ass. Fox News heavenly criticized Obama but now they are declaring Trump as presidential... Why the loyalty to party first instead of country?
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PO2 Rev. Frederick C. Mullis, AFI, CFM
Sarge, Just what do you base your statement on that the POTUS is a Coward? Legal deferments is not cowarding out, If you had bone spurs you would understand the medical deferment. I pray that you never have to suffer that pain.
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Today a draft would be unthinkable but a command required service would also but if the US in current state would develop a real sense of unity as a whole.A system of a Civil Defense Ready Deployment Corp for domestic service could do more.Example,once basic is completed the individual would have the option of military service or CDRC .The CDRC would not be allowed off US soil or ir it's territories,their mission would be to support and supply disaster areas ,civil strife,this would allow the National Guard (by states) to support the security roll as the CDRC sets forth the logistics ,supply, of personnel such as engineers,medical,fire fighters,and other rolls during disasters,such as fires,hurricanes,floods,etc.Now not all would be able to conform or perform,however it would give a service attribute.
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Paula Minger
They’re going to have to do something because an all volunteer Military is costing a fortune & we aren’t getting the best to serve
30% enter w a pre existing mental illness and over 50% have claimed to be disabled by PTSD w 15-50 injuries at discharge
Problem is they’ve only had 52,000 wounded over 19 years,
That’s the lowest since Spanish American War that just lasted 3 months!
It’s a mess to say the least
30% enter w a pre existing mental illness and over 50% have claimed to be disabled by PTSD w 15-50 injuries at discharge
Problem is they’ve only had 52,000 wounded over 19 years,
That’s the lowest since Spanish American War that just lasted 3 months!
It’s a mess to say the least
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