Posted on Jul 19, 2018
Should We Be Upset At Those Who “Dodged The Draft”?
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I’ve seen a number of posts elsewhere provocatively calling President Trump a “draft dodger” for utilizing three educational deferments and one medical exclusion during Vietnam. I know this can be a sensitive issue for many of us who have served. Many of my military friends seem to want to pile on, and comment with disdain over his actions, and this issue. Some of this is just politics, for others it’s more personal.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
I’d like to present a position here that may be unpopular with some. As a freedom loving American who voluntarily served in the US Army and Michigan National Guard for 22 years, including a tour in Iraq (2004-2005), I am thankful that I’ve never had to contend with an active draft. Most of us here have served in the military. Most of us served voluntarily; some were forced to “serve”. I’ve heard some who were conscripted say they are thankful they ended up in the military, or that they were thinking about volunteering anyway. I’ve also heard some say it was the worst thing that’s ever happened to them. There are still others who can’t comment because they didn’t make it back alive.
Most of us who joined the military will tell you they served to protect the freedom that is America, and we DO enjoy a great many freedoms that people in other countries do not. Now for the controversy. Can we include a draft as one of those freedoms? I contend we cannot. I’ve heard arguments for the utility, and necessity of a draft to fight our wars. But what is a draft when we REALLY take time to consider its nature. I’d like to place two definitions below to set the premise that guides my thinking on this issue. (I always use Merriam Webster for consistency’s sake.)
Servitude: “a condition in which one lacks liberty especially to determine one's course of action or way of life.”
Slavery: “a person held in servitude as the chattel of another
: one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence“
Given these two definitions, it’s hard to argue that a draft doesn’t, at best fit the first definition, and at worst the second. When confronted with being drafted, we are given a “choice” either go to war, put your life in danger and do what you’re told, or go to jail. It’s a false choice, because either way you lose the choice to determine your life’s course of action, or you become a slave to the prison system. When I’ve made this argument, the replies, and questions seem to indicate that it’s ok to draft people for a host of reasons, and I have a host of reasons in disagreement.
“It’s a price we have to pay to live in a free country.”
Are we really free if our government can place us into servitude, or slavery without due process?
“Other countries do it.”
We’re not other countries. We’re America, and we abolished servitude, and slavery over 150 years ago. Why would we want to resurrect slavery to fight wars?
“How can we count on volunteers to enlist in great enough numbers to fight our wars?”
How about we offer commensurate pay and benefits that will draw enough citizens to volunteer? If that doesn’t work, perhaps our government should re-think the necessity of that particular engagement.
“What if we’re invaded or we’re needed to fight a great injustice somewhere else?”
If we’re invaded, one suspects there’ll be no shortage of volunteers, civilian, or military. If the cause is just, and the danger real, America has never had a shortage of volunteers.
“Don’t you find it dishonest to use deferrals, or medical exemptions to avoid the draft when others didn’t do so?”
Those deferrals, and exemptions were legal, weren’t they? Would you call taking your mortgage interest deduction, or other legal deductions to lower your tax liability as dishonest?
All of these questions, and answers, are ancillary though, because these questions ALL avoid, bypass, or totally ignore the basic premise that a draft is based upon involuntary servitude at best, and slavery at worst. So, when someone gets all up in arms about President Trump, or anybody else “dodging the draft” by taking legal deferrals, I say, “I don’t blame them”. I tell them I didn’t blame President Clinton for avoiding the draft, and I don’t blame President Trump either. My support of President Clinton in this regard back in the 1990’s certainly caused some consternation among my Republican friends. It’s the price one pays for being philosophically honest, and consistent. Some have asked, about those who fled the country to Canada to avoid the draft, while others went along with it and were deployed to Vietnam. My answer is that I didn’t blame black slaves from fleeing slavery to Canada in the 19th century nor do I blame anybody else for fleeing to Canada to escape our slavery of the Vietnam era.
I understand that the military isn’t for everybody, and we don’t want just anybody fighting next to us. I want people fighting next to me who volunteered. Someone who has that special love of country, of service, and of unit that promotes an effective force.
In summary, I start from the basic premise that a draft is involuntary servitude/slavery, and therefore I can’t blame anybody for avoiding such bonds, either within the system of deferments, and exemptions, or outside the system by fleeing the country. America is a great country because we did away with things like slavery and spearheaded the concept of economic and individual liberty. These concepts led to the greatest worldwide advancements of production, technology and efficiency ever known previous to the founding of our great nation.
I’m sincerely interested in your thoughts, comments, or questions on this issue.
Vietnam War
Vietnam
Donald Trump
Military service
Service
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 705
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This is a thoughtful take. It’s fair to criticize policies and leadership, but targeting individuals for using legal deferments-especially in a system many of us agree is flawed-misses the bigger issue. Voluntary service is fundamentally different from compelled service, and questioning the morality of a draft itself is a valid discussion, separate from partisan attacks. Respect should go to those who served, willingly or not, and honest debate should focus on the system, not personal resentment.
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Avoiding the draft through legal means (exceptions) is ethical and needs no further discussion. However, it is concerning and disappointing that the wealthy, white, connected, and privileged by $$$$, who could join the reserves or guard or pay a doctor friend of the family for ridiculous medical exemptions, like our new "King" got for his poor feet, during Vietnam. Anyone can also elect to leave the country to avoid a draft. I contend that without the draft, the civil war, WWII, could have been lost or at least prolonged.
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SSG Gerhard S.
I'm curious, is your response to the title of the article, or is it to the content of the article?
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SSG Roger Ayscue
SSG Gerhard S. - Thank you for asking. I did read the article. In my honest opinion, "Dodging the Draft" refers to those who had no material reason not to serve. Those who left the country and have now returned to a hug, and all's forgiven. Bill Clinton got a deferment by signing up for ROTC, yet he never attended ROTC. Trump got a medical disqualification. A medical Disqualification is logical, as you don't want a troop that is a liability. To sign up for ROTC and then not go is subterfuge and should be called such.
I hold it against those who left the country and then, when the amnesty was given, came back as if nothing had happened. They owe an apology to the 58 thousand plus that died in Vietnam. My father, drafted for World War II, used to say, "Real men serve their country, they don't make excuses why they did not."
I hold it against those who left the country and then, when the amnesty was given, came back as if nothing had happened. They owe an apology to the 58 thousand plus that died in Vietnam. My father, drafted for World War II, used to say, "Real men serve their country, they don't make excuses why they did not."
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your voluntary service, and for taking the time to read the article and comprehensively respond. Your sentiment is well received.
One might also suggest that the politicians that got us into that war, and then wasted our blood and treasure only to later pull out, should be the ones apologizing. Apologizing for forcing 2.2 million American men into servitude, and for the wasteful deaths of over 58,000 Americans, for a cause they fought with one hand tied behind their backs, later to be unceremoniously abandoned altogether.
One might suggest it is those politicians we should hold in disdain, rather than those the tried to enslave for that abandoned, wasteful and ineffectual war.
Respectful Regards
One might also suggest that the politicians that got us into that war, and then wasted our blood and treasure only to later pull out, should be the ones apologizing. Apologizing for forcing 2.2 million American men into servitude, and for the wasteful deaths of over 58,000 Americans, for a cause they fought with one hand tied behind their backs, later to be unceremoniously abandoned altogether.
One might suggest it is those politicians we should hold in disdain, rather than those the tried to enslave for that abandoned, wasteful and ineffectual war.
Respectful Regards
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SSG Roger Ayscue
SSG Gerhard S. - I suggest that a system be put in place where the children of the wealthy have to serve, and that those who never served not be allowed to be in a public office where they can send others into harm's way. I would also not allow a public official to hold stock or a position in any company that profits from the military or its equipping. But I am a John Locke, Conservative Libertarian (Yes those exist), so ideas of universal service to community are not popular.
Not everyone is suited for the military, but a National Service program where everyone, at 18 years old do some type of public service, before they go to college, and earn one year of free college for every year they give the community.
I agree that the Draft for the military is not a good thing, however, in a system where every 18 year old has to do some type of National Service, even the rich kids have to serve, and the poor kids get free college for every year served would teach the youth of the country that the universe does indeed revolve, just not around them.
Not everyone is suited for the military, but a National Service program where everyone, at 18 years old do some type of public service, before they go to college, and earn one year of free college for every year they give the community.
I agree that the Draft for the military is not a good thing, however, in a system where every 18 year old has to do some type of National Service, even the rich kids have to serve, and the poor kids get free college for every year served would teach the youth of the country that the universe does indeed revolve, just not around them.
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Do not see a reason to be angered over what already occurred in the past and has no impact on one's current state. We don't have draft today, unless some major event happens and draft reopen and you're within the age range for draft. Other than that, why bother?
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your service. I can't help but notice that in one breath you say we don't have a draft today unless some major event happens and the draft were to reopen but on the other hand why bother? Well the point of this whole article is the fact that a draft makes us not free it takes away our freedom it gives us a false choice of whether to "serve one's country or to go to jail", so why bother? I think that's a pretty good reason to bother. Again thank you for your thoughts and I'm interested in your reply.
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I wasn't alive at the time / or old enough to be in the military at the time of Vietnam, but if I were there, knowing what I know now, I think I'd have voluntarily enlisted in the Army if I had a low draft number, but sign up for a job that has me not serving in Vietnam or in the actual battlefront. Serving the country is one thing, diving headlong into the midst of flying bullets on purpose is another.
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This far removed from the times of the Draft I say no we shouldn't be upset. It's done and over with and who's to say that if they did show up they would have made an impact in a positive way. I would rather serve with someone that made a choice to fallow draft orders or joined voluntarily then someone that didn't want to serve and was forced to. I'm thankful to all those that did serve and haven't given a single thought to those that dodged the draft. Now those that served during the draft may fill different but look at how many years it's been since then? Why worry about it now or spent the energy being upset? It's not going to change the past.
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I’m not upset with those who dodged the draft. Over time, I’ve come to terms with the choices people made during difficult periods in our history. Forgiveness was a part of moving forward, and I’ve long since let go of anger over those decisions.
What I haven’t been able to come to terms with is when individuals who once avoided the call to serve are later entrusted with positions where they command others to do what they themselves refused to do. How can someone who evaded their own military obligation—by choice—be comfortable sending young men and women into combat? Leadership, especially at the highest levels, should be grounded in shared sacrifice, not selective responsibility.
Being Commander in Chief is more than a title—it’s a moral trust. And if you once turned away from that trust when your name was called, you should think twice before asking others to carry the burden you chose not to.
What I haven’t been able to come to terms with is when individuals who once avoided the call to serve are later entrusted with positions where they command others to do what they themselves refused to do. How can someone who evaded their own military obligation—by choice—be comfortable sending young men and women into combat? Leadership, especially at the highest levels, should be grounded in shared sacrifice, not selective responsibility.
Being Commander in Chief is more than a title—it’s a moral trust. And if you once turned away from that trust when your name was called, you should think twice before asking others to carry the burden you chose not to.
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How many years has it been? You know it's taking a lot of time to let go of things, I hated the complaining of draftees I volunteered so I wanted to be there what would piss me off was the whiny dragging your feet the I don't give a dam pissed me off because that would endanger the rest of us I was the corpsman and theses jack asses didn't even wanted to try
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The resentment toward Donald Trump does not lie solely with his cowardice in dodging the draft. There are so many other examples. From disparaging women and promoting sexual assault on them to mocking disabled people. Failing to address Covid 19 in cogent and serious manner made the richest and most advanced country yo have the worst pandemic results. Leaving the country with one of the most dire financial crises ever. Hiring an out of tune multi-billionaire, who by the way is also a foreigner to drive thousands of people out of work, including thousands of veterans. His utter contempt for military and veterans. His sarcastically receiving a Purple Heart from the rightful recipient, then mocking by saying he always wanted a Purple Heart in spite of evidence that he had his father pay some one to keep him out of the military. And don't forget his denying proper health care options to women. Another example of his contempt for women. Yeah, there's a lot to resent.
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SSG Gerhard S.
Thank you for your service, and for taking the time to read at least the first sentence of the article before commenting. It's important to note that this Command Post article was NOT written about President Trump, but rather about the nature and morality of the draft. In fact he was only mentioned that one time, as was President Clinton later in the Article.
Thank you for sharing your opinions about President Trump, but one wonders if you were able to read past that first question before feeling compelled to post your comments.
Respectful Regards Sir!
Thank you for sharing your opinions about President Trump, but one wonders if you were able to read past that first question before feeling compelled to post your comments.
Respectful Regards Sir!
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Some that ran and didn't serve i figure We were just as well off without them. I can't get too obsessed with them but find most are people I wouldn't want to be around anyway. When they get involved though showing contempt and disrespect for People that actually did contribute though, that I find unacceptable but unlike them I don't make public disturbances to display My opinions. Except for Me controlling for instance, "Anti War Demonstrators " during the Vietnam Era I didn't have contact with them but locked up a few. I did also find though almost all I encountered didn't have a clue what was going on and were almost completely ignorant of the actual facts. Closed minds and a biased press sure contributed to that in a large way ! Some issues of course with politicians that made the problem in the first place were NOT focused on. Washington Micro Managing and outright corruption by many made the problem worse and death tolls on US Military serving in Vietnam much higher. Other countries such as Australia and South Korea plus even the South Vietnamese suffered a LOT of death because of that and thank primarily to the Johnson Administration !
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