Posted on Jul 29, 2018
Sinking Standards And Indoctrination: A Veteran's View Of The College Experience
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When I graduated high school I immediately enlisted in the military. After months completing OSUT at Fort Knox, Kentucky, and a brief vacation home for HRAP, I was stationed at Fort Hood, Texas. Over the next few years, my education would come in the form of deployments, field training exercises, structured self-development courses, and professional development schools. I wanted something more though. I looked forward to a time where my career would be at such an optempo as to allow for me to complete my formal civilian education. That time never came. Instead, I found myself medically retired at the age of twenty-four. After a brief stint of wallowing in my own self-pity, I decided to get my life back on track and, ten years after graduating high school, I found myself front and center in a college classroom.
I had previously imagined how college would be. I was never a great student in high school; more often than not, I was a slacker who managed to skate by with good test scores. In my head, I thought that, at best, I would be roughly a B student if I put some real effort into my work. Due to the VA educational benefits that I had earned, I did not have to split my time between working some part time job to pay the bills and use my spare time to complete schoolwork. No, I could completely dedicate myself to my studies. I soon found that my vision of what college would be was nothing close to the reality of it.
I soon found that I was not expected to put in the kind of effort that I had set out to do. Surrounded by hordes of young kids, ranging in ages between 18 and 22 mostly, I was easily one of the oldest people in each classroom. Most of the students didn’t do the assigned readings, turned in homework late, and scored terribly on midterms and finals; did they know something I didn’t? Yes, they did. It would seem that the American education system had morphed from a place to broaden one’s formal education and promote critical thinking to a daycare of sorts where these teenagers and early-twenty-somethings could prolong their childhoods for a few more years while the teachers, in what can only be rationalized as an effort to keep their jobs “useful”, tossed passing grades on to transcripts. Eventually, without learning how to even properly format a paper, these students would graduate with Bachelor’s Degrees in their various disciplines. This is not at all an exaggeration, sadly.
Just recently, I completed a condensed three credit hour course during the summer 2018 semester. I didn’t have to study, I didn’t open up the books after the first week, and I spent most of the lecture time arguing with the professor. I ended up with a final grade of over 99%. How did this happen? Well, because the course was simple to begin with. I was always going to get a low ‘A’, but the reason that it was nearly a perfect grade was because the professor continually added extra points to exams and assignments in order to ensure that every student received a passing grade. If this sounds asinine to you, it should. The idiotic professor’s disgusting and intellectually dishonest practice allowed me to receive a 121% on an exam just so a few more undeserving idiots could pass. This is what the American education system has become.
Now, I have spoken before about a professor that I have become quite close to; in fact, if it were not for our professional, student-teacher relationship, I may go as far as to say we were friends. She has not yet been taken in by this system of inflating grades to ensure the survival of her position, but even she has voiced how the standards that students are being held to are abysmal at best. Reading comprehension is non-existent, the ability to write a coherent paper of over a page and a half is rare, and it would seem that grades are seen, by students, as not earned by virtue of hard-work and demonstrated understanding but rather they are bought and paid for via their tuition. This may be a symptom of the rampant entitlement that seems to be almost ubiquitous amongst this up and coming generation. Sadly, I belong to this generation.
At the very same time that students are being shuffled through their university education, many professors take the opportunity to vomit their vile personal beliefs from the lectern. In the army we always joked about fighting communists as if it were a thing of the distant past, but it would seem alive and well. I never imagined having to defend the American way of life in a classroom and yet, time after time, I find myself defending the constitution, capitalism, and the rule of law from whole groups who believe that the founding fathers had it all wrong. If the fact that students were getting unearned diplomas was not enough to anger me, listening to students and professors preach the many blessings of communism surely did the trick.
After two more semesters I will graduate with my BA in English; I am on track to graduate with honors. I will be throwing my application for admission to a short list of institutions and I have no doubt that I will be allowed to attend one of them. I can only hope that graduate school will not be tainted with the same practices as undergrad.
If attending college has taught me one thing so far, it is that traditional, four year degrees should not be sought by everyone. In fact, I have become a firm believer in the value of technical schools and trades. Were it possible to go into my field, teaching, without a liberal arts degree, I would. What has become apparent is that the often spoken lie that one cannot be a success without a college degree has been espoused so many times that we all seem to believe it and that is sad. I have an entire group of very close friends who have never attended college, some of them dropped out of high school, and they are all on their way to making far more money in their careers than I can ever hope to make as a college English professor. Perhaps we would be better off if students understood the value of some of these careers or at least understood the necessity of hard work.
I had previously imagined how college would be. I was never a great student in high school; more often than not, I was a slacker who managed to skate by with good test scores. In my head, I thought that, at best, I would be roughly a B student if I put some real effort into my work. Due to the VA educational benefits that I had earned, I did not have to split my time between working some part time job to pay the bills and use my spare time to complete schoolwork. No, I could completely dedicate myself to my studies. I soon found that my vision of what college would be was nothing close to the reality of it.
I soon found that I was not expected to put in the kind of effort that I had set out to do. Surrounded by hordes of young kids, ranging in ages between 18 and 22 mostly, I was easily one of the oldest people in each classroom. Most of the students didn’t do the assigned readings, turned in homework late, and scored terribly on midterms and finals; did they know something I didn’t? Yes, they did. It would seem that the American education system had morphed from a place to broaden one’s formal education and promote critical thinking to a daycare of sorts where these teenagers and early-twenty-somethings could prolong their childhoods for a few more years while the teachers, in what can only be rationalized as an effort to keep their jobs “useful”, tossed passing grades on to transcripts. Eventually, without learning how to even properly format a paper, these students would graduate with Bachelor’s Degrees in their various disciplines. This is not at all an exaggeration, sadly.
Just recently, I completed a condensed three credit hour course during the summer 2018 semester. I didn’t have to study, I didn’t open up the books after the first week, and I spent most of the lecture time arguing with the professor. I ended up with a final grade of over 99%. How did this happen? Well, because the course was simple to begin with. I was always going to get a low ‘A’, but the reason that it was nearly a perfect grade was because the professor continually added extra points to exams and assignments in order to ensure that every student received a passing grade. If this sounds asinine to you, it should. The idiotic professor’s disgusting and intellectually dishonest practice allowed me to receive a 121% on an exam just so a few more undeserving idiots could pass. This is what the American education system has become.
Now, I have spoken before about a professor that I have become quite close to; in fact, if it were not for our professional, student-teacher relationship, I may go as far as to say we were friends. She has not yet been taken in by this system of inflating grades to ensure the survival of her position, but even she has voiced how the standards that students are being held to are abysmal at best. Reading comprehension is non-existent, the ability to write a coherent paper of over a page and a half is rare, and it would seem that grades are seen, by students, as not earned by virtue of hard-work and demonstrated understanding but rather they are bought and paid for via their tuition. This may be a symptom of the rampant entitlement that seems to be almost ubiquitous amongst this up and coming generation. Sadly, I belong to this generation.
At the very same time that students are being shuffled through their university education, many professors take the opportunity to vomit their vile personal beliefs from the lectern. In the army we always joked about fighting communists as if it were a thing of the distant past, but it would seem alive and well. I never imagined having to defend the American way of life in a classroom and yet, time after time, I find myself defending the constitution, capitalism, and the rule of law from whole groups who believe that the founding fathers had it all wrong. If the fact that students were getting unearned diplomas was not enough to anger me, listening to students and professors preach the many blessings of communism surely did the trick.
After two more semesters I will graduate with my BA in English; I am on track to graduate with honors. I will be throwing my application for admission to a short list of institutions and I have no doubt that I will be allowed to attend one of them. I can only hope that graduate school will not be tainted with the same practices as undergrad.
If attending college has taught me one thing so far, it is that traditional, four year degrees should not be sought by everyone. In fact, I have become a firm believer in the value of technical schools and trades. Were it possible to go into my field, teaching, without a liberal arts degree, I would. What has become apparent is that the often spoken lie that one cannot be a success without a college degree has been espoused so many times that we all seem to believe it and that is sad. I have an entire group of very close friends who have never attended college, some of them dropped out of high school, and they are all on their way to making far more money in their careers than I can ever hope to make as a college English professor. Perhaps we would be better off if students understood the value of some of these careers or at least understood the necessity of hard work.
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Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 114
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I have often thought that I would have made so much more, gotten so much more, out of my college education had I served first. I was a very immature 17-year old when I entered college and frittered my time away, passing well enough on a minimum of effort. How much better might I have done if I had served first and matured. Well, to be fair, if I had served first, I most likely would never have earned rank and most likely would have been in trouble most of the time. Then, going to college later, had I matured, would have been in trouble in school among a bunch of immature 17-18 year olds as immature as I was at that age.
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PO2 Tim Hawks
CPT Robert Boshears - I knew a lot of guys I served with that had that same problem....lol
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SFC John Stroud
I had a chance to start at the Citadel in S.C. and the hazing at the time taught me one thing, I didn't think I was officer correct. I started in August of 1973 with graduation in 1977. However my standard was not going to be met at the Citadel. There is a lot more to the story but that does not need to be told. A couple of years later I joined the SCARNG and became a medic. In 1976 I went active Army, then 91 C (LPN) and 14 years active until physical issue that separated me from the Army before Gulf War One. However, during service and shortly after in 1992 I graduated with a Associate in Management and a B.S. in Business. In 1973 I was not into education. However, in 1992 I finished my degrees with a total of 9 Colleges, Army LPN School, and 20 years after High School graduation. My father never thought I would graduate, I did and he saw it right before he died in 1993. My father was a WW2 Army Veteran and a 30 year SCARNG career retiring as a LTC. He started as a private, hit all NCO grades and all Officer grades to LTC. Colonel. I started as a Private and reached the rank of SFC (E7). I almost got it, but at least I graduated College before my Dad died. RIP Dad.
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Sgt (Join to see)
I graduated from high school a 17 and had to go to a 4-year college... I went to Stonehill College for just shy of two semesters. I hate it! Why, you ask. I always liked technology when I was growing up... My father just wanted me to get a 4-Yr degree... I wanted to go to Wentworth Institute in Boston for an Associate Degree so I could see if that was what I wanted to pursue... My Dad wouldn't have it... So, I quit Stonehill College and within a month of quitting, I took tests for the 4 military branches I was interested in... The Air Force offered the best schooling opportunity. I announced what I wanted to do at dinner one night and said right then that my mind was made up and that my parents could either sign for me then or I was gone when I turned 18. Off I went to AF boot camp in San Antonio, TX... I graduated Tech school and was assigned to Otis AFB, MA as an Airborne Navigation Systems Tech and the rest is history... I went on to Northeastern University Nights after my enlistment was finished and completed an Associate Degree in Electronic Engineering Technology and then a bachelor’s degree in industrial technology. By then I had five children and the thoughts of more school was halted. I have had a great Professional career. I am 76 now and retired... Volunteer with the VA and am Commander of DAV Chapter #90, Norwood, MA.
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This is true to some extent. I worked a 22 hr/ week job and had 16 semester hours of classes. Even with my energy being so diffused, I only needed to put forth real effort in a handful of my classes (calculus, structural geology, sedimentology, petrology). The majority of my classes especially the general education classes were a cakewalk. Only in the science and math classes were there any challenges. The worst part is that many of the general education classes were just indoctrination. I was expected to express an opinion that was in line with the professor's view point. If I varied even slightly, I was openly mocked in class by my professors. Thus, I gave them the answers to questions of politics that they wanted to hear. This did even infect some of the science classes. In particular my water resources class. The professor point blank ask me if I voted for Trump, when she found out I was former military. I told her, "Not that it's any of your business, but no, I voted Libertarian. " She would regularly say that humanity was too large and espoused the myth about the population bomb. Even when I mentioned that the book she was referencing was written in the 70s and stated that the carrying capacity was 6 billion and the current population is nearly 8 billion with no global famine, she smugly continued to go on her rant. That's the real problem with higher education. We have an echo chamber forming. These people locked in their ivory towers no longer even consider that their ideas should be challenged.
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SGT (Join to see)
Yeah, I had an anthropology professor who started ranting about the "1%" and made the "point" that the 1% were Wall Street billionaires. I then pointed out that if you took all the billionaires, or even millionaires, in the world it would amount to far less than 1% of the world population, and that anyone in the middle class in the U.S. was part of the global 1%. She asked me what study that was based on. I told her: "Simple math. If there are 7.5 billion people on the planet, one percent of that is 75 million people."
I then referred her to a study that showed that almost 50 million of the top 75 million incomes in the world are in the United States, including anyone making 30,000 dollars a year or more. I then concluded by saying "Most everyone in this room is part of the 1% on the global level, and those who aren't are still in the top 5% unless they're living on the street."
The professor just gave me a blank look and said. "No, the top 1% are all billionaires." I replied: "Even though there are less than 500 billionaires on the planet, and 1% of the population equals 75 million people?" She asks me: "What's your source for there being less than 500 billionaires?" I tell her that on the Forbes 500, not everyone is quite at the billionaire level, having net worth in the hundreds of millions instead. She frowned, repeated her assertion that the top 1% were all billionaires (as though repeating it would somehow make it true), and then continued the "lecture" quickly, obviously wanting to avoid any more pesky facts.
I then referred her to a study that showed that almost 50 million of the top 75 million incomes in the world are in the United States, including anyone making 30,000 dollars a year or more. I then concluded by saying "Most everyone in this room is part of the 1% on the global level, and those who aren't are still in the top 5% unless they're living on the street."
The professor just gave me a blank look and said. "No, the top 1% are all billionaires." I replied: "Even though there are less than 500 billionaires on the planet, and 1% of the population equals 75 million people?" She asks me: "What's your source for there being less than 500 billionaires?" I tell her that on the Forbes 500, not everyone is quite at the billionaire level, having net worth in the hundreds of millions instead. She frowned, repeated her assertion that the top 1% were all billionaires (as though repeating it would somehow make it true), and then continued the "lecture" quickly, obviously wanting to avoid any more pesky facts.
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SGT Tony Clifford
PO3 Craig Phillips you realize that I have a B.S. in Geology, not liberal arts, right? I agree that those degrees have little utility and cost way too much for what they give you.
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SPC Chris Ison
The only time i was "mocked" and it was not even mocking was in my senior year. We had a management seminar where we were to create a business plan for a fictional business. Create a marketing plan, financing, etc.
This was in 2000, and the internet was just becoming a part of our every day life. I suggest an internet cafe, for gaming. The group went with it, and when it came time to set pricing and establish a finance model, the question of "how much do you charge for internet" came up. My opinion was nothing, you give it away for free, it is the hook that brings in the customer. I based this off the idea that the first, and best taste of an illicit drug is given away free to get the customer hooked, then when they are regular customer you give them shit drugs and keep them on the line for more.
we argued, and everyone got pissy. I was given a "C" for the class because my group did not like me, and thought i was a "commie."
Tell me now though, where do you pay for internet besides your home?
Part of being a good student is being willing to challenge your professor, and everyone of you who said you had to tow the line, i think missed an opportunity to be a challenge to yourself but voicing your own opinion. Seems like a lack of moral courage.
Plato said the best student is the student that disagrees with you, and is willing to challenge you.
This was in 2000, and the internet was just becoming a part of our every day life. I suggest an internet cafe, for gaming. The group went with it, and when it came time to set pricing and establish a finance model, the question of "how much do you charge for internet" came up. My opinion was nothing, you give it away for free, it is the hook that brings in the customer. I based this off the idea that the first, and best taste of an illicit drug is given away free to get the customer hooked, then when they are regular customer you give them shit drugs and keep them on the line for more.
we argued, and everyone got pissy. I was given a "C" for the class because my group did not like me, and thought i was a "commie."
Tell me now though, where do you pay for internet besides your home?
Part of being a good student is being willing to challenge your professor, and everyone of you who said you had to tow the line, i think missed an opportunity to be a challenge to yourself but voicing your own opinion. Seems like a lack of moral courage.
Plato said the best student is the student that disagrees with you, and is willing to challenge you.
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I think it depends on the school (at least I hope so). The Virginia public universities are not yet giving away grades if my friends and neighbor's students are any indication. However, there are definitely some that are. As for Grad school, it depends on where you go and what your major is. Education seems to be a rubber stamp. Those degrees that require a state level exam, are not, because there is some accountability.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
SPC Chris Ison my $$$ didn’t come from a Pel Grant but from the VA, SPC. Not some rich ol lady’s bootywear drawer.. part Of compensation to assist with training.. so don’t get your boxers /briefs in a bind. .SPC.
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SPC Chris Ison
SSgt Boyd Herrst - Sounds like you have some serious issues.
"I want to be challenged"? Nope you don't you want everyone to agree with you, and to label people you don't like as less than.
I can tell what kind of crap NCO you are/were by the fact you had to refer to my rank TWICE.
See, now i guess i can make a few assumptions.
I can assume because you were in the air force the reason you never made E-7, is because promotions in the air force come slower.
I can also assume that since you are getting money form the VA that you were medically retired BEFORE you got your 20.
Or i can be like you and just assume the reason you never made E-7, is because you area shit bird.
Based on your comments i am going with shit bird.
"I want to be challenged"? Nope you don't you want everyone to agree with you, and to label people you don't like as less than.
I can tell what kind of crap NCO you are/were by the fact you had to refer to my rank TWICE.
See, now i guess i can make a few assumptions.
I can assume because you were in the air force the reason you never made E-7, is because promotions in the air force come slower.
I can also assume that since you are getting money form the VA that you were medically retired BEFORE you got your 20.
Or i can be like you and just assume the reason you never made E-7, is because you area shit bird.
Based on your comments i am going with shit bird.
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SSgt Boyd Herrst
SPC Chris Ison my time as back in late 70’s and the $$ then is not like now at where put it. Mine was a 1/3 of that . at least I had 1/2 my base pay to match that VA. and being at my gal’s apt a 1/4 mile from school.
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SPC Chris Ison
Okay so let me do some fucking math for you:
according to DFAS an E-4 in 1978, made 504.90 if they were under 2 years of service, and 533.10, over 2. 504.90 * 12 = 6.058.80 a year.
172.50 for BAQ and 62.80 for separate rations. This of course does not include VHA.
Federal minimum wage was 2.65 cents an hour.
Just so you understand the math there are 14 federal holidays a year, there are 40 standard work hours a year, 52 weeks a year (50 as their are 2 weeks of holiday), so 40, 50 = 2000 work hours in a standard year. so, a minimum wage worker made 2650 dollars a year, less than half of an E-4 UNDER 2 years. And they do not pay rent, utilities, or have to buy food; and if they are put in a position to have to do that by getting married or having a kid (as geographic bachelors were a thing back then) the got paid an additional 234 dollars a month, or 2808, more than the actual minimum wage worker makes in a year!. SO an E-4 with less than 2 years (not that there was such a thing back then) made a total of 8866.80 a year or the equivalent of 4.43 an hour, almost twice the minimum wage.
the average home cost in 1978 was 62,000 dollars. you figure 20% down that is 12 grand so your financing 50k over 30 years at 9%. That is a payment of 400 dollars a month in June of 1978.
Not easy for an E-4 under 2, but a SSG made 761.40 at 8 years, and had 213.30 for BAQ, and No VHA, so yeah for a SSG at 8 years it was TOTALLY DOABLE without losing any base pay.
You really do not want to argue finances with a business major.
I know how money works.
according to DFAS an E-4 in 1978, made 504.90 if they were under 2 years of service, and 533.10, over 2. 504.90 * 12 = 6.058.80 a year.
172.50 for BAQ and 62.80 for separate rations. This of course does not include VHA.
Federal minimum wage was 2.65 cents an hour.
Just so you understand the math there are 14 federal holidays a year, there are 40 standard work hours a year, 52 weeks a year (50 as their are 2 weeks of holiday), so 40, 50 = 2000 work hours in a standard year. so, a minimum wage worker made 2650 dollars a year, less than half of an E-4 UNDER 2 years. And they do not pay rent, utilities, or have to buy food; and if they are put in a position to have to do that by getting married or having a kid (as geographic bachelors were a thing back then) the got paid an additional 234 dollars a month, or 2808, more than the actual minimum wage worker makes in a year!. SO an E-4 with less than 2 years (not that there was such a thing back then) made a total of 8866.80 a year or the equivalent of 4.43 an hour, almost twice the minimum wage.
the average home cost in 1978 was 62,000 dollars. you figure 20% down that is 12 grand so your financing 50k over 30 years at 9%. That is a payment of 400 dollars a month in June of 1978.
Not easy for an E-4 under 2, but a SSG made 761.40 at 8 years, and had 213.30 for BAQ, and No VHA, so yeah for a SSG at 8 years it was TOTALLY DOABLE without losing any base pay.
You really do not want to argue finances with a business major.
I know how money works.
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It would seem that the American education system had morphed from a place to broaden one’s formal education and promote critical thinking to a daycare of sorts where these teenagers and early-twenty-somethings could prolong their childhoods for a few more years while the teachers, in what can only be rationalized as an effort to keep their jobs “useful”, tossed passing grades on to transcripts."
I back this fully. I, too, have seen it with my own eyes. I was in my 30s when I first went back to school, took lots of classes, unsure of what direction I was going in, getting the basics, finally deciding on Administrative Justice, and graduated with Highest Honors. Everyone I was in class with thought I was some super genius. My favorite saying in reply, was, "it takes so little to be above average." I did 136 credits at a GPA of 4.0.
I went back to school to change career fields in my mid 40s. Even in my hardest prerequisite for the nursing program (physics), I put in the work. I stayed after to talk to the instructor after class if I didn't quite get the material. I went over it again and again until it did make sense. I took copious notes. I taped all the lectures of classes that were on the difficult side and then after class I went home and transcribed that one hour class worth of notes, even though it took me three hours to do so. I then had literally everything the teacher had said. No mistakes, no missing information. I studied for my tests until I knew the info backwards and forwards. If it was a writing exam (common in nursing and nursing prerequisites), I planned out the best answers to the possible test questions and practiced writing out test answers over and over again, until the day of the test, therefore, I blew it away.
But I was a veteran. I took pride in what I did, and I was there to do a job, and get it done right and get it done to the best of my ability. I graduated Magna cum laude from nursing.
("At the very same time that students are being shuffled through their university education, many professors take the opportunity to vomit their vile personal beliefs from the lectern.")
Yes, I had some difficulty with that at the university level. Not so much in the community college. It is absolutely indoctrination.
("If attending college has taught me one thing so far, it is that traditional, four year degrees should not be sought by everyone. In fact, I have become a firm believer in the value of technical schools and trades.")
You said it! I have to seriously agree on this. I hear you. If I could have done it, I would have as well. Unlike most career fields today, our schooling is BASED on critical thinking. And I'll tell you, the cheating ran RAMPANT. There were only 2 dinosaurs in those classes, and we were out of the loop (not that I would have cheated anyway), but it makes one real sore to see these entitled kids getting good jobs and positions after school based on work they didn't do.
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(" In the army we always joked about fighting communists as if it were a thing of the distant past, but it would seem alive and well.")
Well, seeing as I was in Germany when the wall came down in 1989 (!!) I can't say the same, but honestly, communism never died like we thought it would, like the East Germans dreamed it would, and like Germans and Americans celebrated that New Years eve, that it would. It just picked up a new name and carried on. Evil does that in the world. It won't be defeated until the end.
I remember being in formation and hearing General Joulwan say something to the effect that 50 years ago, we were fighting a mad man and a corrupt regime, (Hitler) and that "today" we were fighting another mad man and another corrupt regime (Saddam Hussein), and it occurred to me that with all we do, with all we sacrifice, nothing sticks. They keep coming, they keep trying. They won't leave US in peace. They are not content to walk away and recognize that we won. Their goal is total world domination, (aka OWG) no matter how long it takes, no matter how many wars must be fought, and no matter how many casualties are lost in the fight. We, and our Constitution, are the biggest remaining threat to their agenda. Which is why we, as a nation, as a people, need to appreciate what we have, the sacrifices that have gone before us, and know what it is we stand for, what we're willing to fight and, if necessary, die for.
Good luck to you. Not only in school, but beyond.
I back this fully. I, too, have seen it with my own eyes. I was in my 30s when I first went back to school, took lots of classes, unsure of what direction I was going in, getting the basics, finally deciding on Administrative Justice, and graduated with Highest Honors. Everyone I was in class with thought I was some super genius. My favorite saying in reply, was, "it takes so little to be above average." I did 136 credits at a GPA of 4.0.
I went back to school to change career fields in my mid 40s. Even in my hardest prerequisite for the nursing program (physics), I put in the work. I stayed after to talk to the instructor after class if I didn't quite get the material. I went over it again and again until it did make sense. I took copious notes. I taped all the lectures of classes that were on the difficult side and then after class I went home and transcribed that one hour class worth of notes, even though it took me three hours to do so. I then had literally everything the teacher had said. No mistakes, no missing information. I studied for my tests until I knew the info backwards and forwards. If it was a writing exam (common in nursing and nursing prerequisites), I planned out the best answers to the possible test questions and practiced writing out test answers over and over again, until the day of the test, therefore, I blew it away.
But I was a veteran. I took pride in what I did, and I was there to do a job, and get it done right and get it done to the best of my ability. I graduated Magna cum laude from nursing.
("At the very same time that students are being shuffled through their university education, many professors take the opportunity to vomit their vile personal beliefs from the lectern.")
Yes, I had some difficulty with that at the university level. Not so much in the community college. It is absolutely indoctrination.
("If attending college has taught me one thing so far, it is that traditional, four year degrees should not be sought by everyone. In fact, I have become a firm believer in the value of technical schools and trades.")
You said it! I have to seriously agree on this. I hear you. If I could have done it, I would have as well. Unlike most career fields today, our schooling is BASED on critical thinking. And I'll tell you, the cheating ran RAMPANT. There were only 2 dinosaurs in those classes, and we were out of the loop (not that I would have cheated anyway), but it makes one real sore to see these entitled kids getting good jobs and positions after school based on work they didn't do.
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(" In the army we always joked about fighting communists as if it were a thing of the distant past, but it would seem alive and well.")
Well, seeing as I was in Germany when the wall came down in 1989 (!!) I can't say the same, but honestly, communism never died like we thought it would, like the East Germans dreamed it would, and like Germans and Americans celebrated that New Years eve, that it would. It just picked up a new name and carried on. Evil does that in the world. It won't be defeated until the end.
I remember being in formation and hearing General Joulwan say something to the effect that 50 years ago, we were fighting a mad man and a corrupt regime, (Hitler) and that "today" we were fighting another mad man and another corrupt regime (Saddam Hussein), and it occurred to me that with all we do, with all we sacrifice, nothing sticks. They keep coming, they keep trying. They won't leave US in peace. They are not content to walk away and recognize that we won. Their goal is total world domination, (aka OWG) no matter how long it takes, no matter how many wars must be fought, and no matter how many casualties are lost in the fight. We, and our Constitution, are the biggest remaining threat to their agenda. Which is why we, as a nation, as a people, need to appreciate what we have, the sacrifices that have gone before us, and know what it is we stand for, what we're willing to fight and, if necessary, die for.
Good luck to you. Not only in school, but beyond.
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SPC Trish Sugas-Lopez
Thanks, Joe. (Can I call you Joe?). Yes, in case you hadn't noticed, I'm a teeny bit of a type A, lol. If I didn't mention it before, yours was well thought out, postulated and written. I'm sure we could discuss this for hours. :)
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SSG Robert Perrotto
That's the funny thing about Ideologies, they wax and wane, but they never really go away. That piece of fiction that Karl Marx wrote, that somehow those that underachieve, have the right to take from those that do achieve, is the single most horrible piece of written work ever penned, worse even then Mein Kampf, as Nazi's, real true, full blooded Nazi's are shunned by society, but a socialist, with illusions of grandeur to make the world a better place, where everyone has equality of outcome, well , that damn book just sings to their souls, never mind the death tolls of Lenins purges, followed by Stalins, or the death marches and drowning of Chinese people after Mao forced his opponents to Taiwan, to Che Guevera's reign of terror in central America, Vietnam, Cambodia, North Korea, Cuba, and now Venezuala. All of that is "not real socialism". If I had a choice to go back in time and could assassinate just 1 person, it would be Marx.
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My experience teaching in both the undergraduate and graduate levels, at five different universities (both public and private), stands in stark contrast to what you've articulated.
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LTC Kevin B.
SSgt Joseph Baptist - Now you're shifting the ground, another debating fallacy. While the OP did cast broader assertions, my specific comments (and thus the main point of my responses) have focused on faculty being under pressure to pass students. So, you're trying to shift the ground onto other topics. Try to stay on point with my comments, since you're choosing to joust with me.
"my experience is with over a dozen colleges and universities" = you're perfectly suited to talk about the student experience, but you are not suited to talk about the faculty experience.
"I work in K-12 education" = you're perfectly suited to talk about K-12 education, but not higher education.
"and have friends that are college/university professors" = and I have friends who are physicians, but that doesn't make me feel compelled to provide medical commentary.
"we talk about issues like grade inflation, administrative pressures to dumb down courses and pass students, the lack of accountability, and similar issues" = anecdotal evidence that is not consistent with my experience.
"you sound a lot like those AP teachers at low performing high schools who don't seem to realize the low level of preparedness, and the lack of academic interest, among the non-AP students at their schools." = much better example of false equivalency.
"my experience is with over a dozen colleges and universities" = you're perfectly suited to talk about the student experience, but you are not suited to talk about the faculty experience.
"I work in K-12 education" = you're perfectly suited to talk about K-12 education, but not higher education.
"and have friends that are college/university professors" = and I have friends who are physicians, but that doesn't make me feel compelled to provide medical commentary.
"we talk about issues like grade inflation, administrative pressures to dumb down courses and pass students, the lack of accountability, and similar issues" = anecdotal evidence that is not consistent with my experience.
"you sound a lot like those AP teachers at low performing high schools who don't seem to realize the low level of preparedness, and the lack of academic interest, among the non-AP students at their schools." = much better example of false equivalency.
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LTC Kevin B.
SSgt Joseph Baptist - I will readily agree that I am only suited to discuss my particular classes, at my particular institutions. Still, that remains many more classes at many more institutions than you.
I'll leave all of your other petty attempts at snarky insults for others to read and to judge.
I'll leave all of your other petty attempts at snarky insults for others to read and to judge.
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SPC Trish Sugas-Lopez
Idk. I have to agree with SSgt Baptist. I had the exact same experience. I'm out in SoCal, though.
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LTC Kevin B.
SPC Steve Irvine - I primarily teach graduate-level Finance, focusing on the health industry. Students have matured and have fully developed their career interests by the time they get to me. I know the problems you experienced occur at the undergraduate level, especially as students are finding their way in college life and trying to learn where their true interests might be.
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1. It sounds like you will be a good and interesting Professor.
2. Ask those people who believe in communism...if they have ever been or lived in a commie country? My guess is the answer is no.
2. Ask those people who believe in communism...if they have ever been or lived in a commie country? My guess is the answer is no.
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SPC Chris Ison
SFC (Join to see) - Look up Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. It is used to treat many mental disorders. Psychology has shown that LANGUAGE is powerful, and that certain words, phrases, and concepts can be reinforced through VOCABULARY. We try to get veteran's with PTSD to use words like could have, instead of should have, as it lessens the guilt associated with the behavior. In anger management we talk about "hot" words like swear words, and other words that incite anger, and "cool" words that incite a calming effect on our emotions. So yes *I* agree with your professor, the term illegal alien, gook, Haji, nigger, thug, Kraut, etc are all designed to dehumanize subjects and then allow us to treat them as subhuman and not care.
The real question you should be asking yourself is not why do *I* feel that way, but why does it matter to you so much what we call people? Why is it so hard for *YOU* to accept the concept of dehumanization?
The real question you should be asking yourself is not why do *I* feel that way, but why does it matter to you so much what we call people? Why is it so hard for *YOU* to accept the concept of dehumanization?
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SFC (Join to see)
SPC Chris Ison actually he bowed to the Saudi ruler and I might just be hick from the sticks but I am proud that I am from the greatest country in the world and if you don't like the way it is why don't you leave
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SSgt GG-15 RET Jim Lint
SPC Chris Ison - Should we go to war against them now before the winter, or do you want to fight a winter war?
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SPC Chris Ison
SPC Steve Irvine - If you want to end illegal immigration you don't try and stop the people crossing the border, you throw the assholes who are hiring them in jail.
But, the truth is no one loses a job to an illegal the majority of them do jobs that regular Americans think are below them, or are too labor intensive for them to do.
Agricultural work, mowing lawns and landscaping, maid, etc.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal-immigrants-us-jobs-economy-farm-workers-taxes/
Maybe you want to pay 7 dollars for a potato, but I don't.
there are special H1 visas given to "seasonal workers" the real solution is to make getting those easier and then the people who work on agriculture and other jobs can work here legally.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html.
Finally, since NAFTA the net immigration across the southern border has been negative.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/.
But, the truth is no one loses a job to an illegal the majority of them do jobs that regular Americans think are below them, or are too labor intensive for them to do.
Agricultural work, mowing lawns and landscaping, maid, etc.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/illegal-immigrants-us-jobs-economy-farm-workers-taxes/
Maybe you want to pay 7 dollars for a potato, but I don't.
there are special H1 visas given to "seasonal workers" the real solution is to make getting those easier and then the people who work on agriculture and other jobs can work here legally.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/us-visas/employment/temporary-worker-visas.html.
Finally, since NAFTA the net immigration across the southern border has been negative.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/26/ron-kind/yes-experiencing-net-outflow-illegal-undocumented-/.
These U.S. industries can't work without illegal immigrants
Some 8 million undocumented workers pick American fruit, construct American buildings, raise American babies – and pay American taxes
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I received my AS degree on active duty after being largely operational. I finished my BS in 1999 after retiring and was told by many of my younger fellow students that my work was forcing them to work harder. What was interesting is that the "non-military students" felt I was outshining them working so hard. Their problem not mine!
Regardless, I was going to do my best all while, along with my wife raising two middle schoolers thought high school. Like Maj Landgen, I had a high B average overall. It had been a long time since I had chemistry, physics and other courses. I now have A's in two different master programs, that because of family issues, I still need to go back and complete.
I even found myself teaching at the Associates level (after I got my BS with the masters work I had done) and the quality of students, save those older who want it, was poor. I taught Anatomy & Physiology for two years at a community college. That was interesting!
Also, I agree with your statement "...four year degrees should not be sought by everyone. In fact, I have become a firm believer in the value of technical schools and trades." Absolutely! We have a lot of smart people whose time and talent is wasted going to get a 4-yr degree, when they are the bright ones we need in what I like to call "Thinking Technical Specialties".
Finally, many people as Winston Churchill once told someone "... don't know their own bloody history." Perhaps, if people "... learned to think for themselves (aka the process of critical thinking..." vs "...being so gullible and needing someone to tell them what to think...." we'd all prosper a little more by solving real problems in honest ways.
Regardless, I was going to do my best all while, along with my wife raising two middle schoolers thought high school. Like Maj Landgen, I had a high B average overall. It had been a long time since I had chemistry, physics and other courses. I now have A's in two different master programs, that because of family issues, I still need to go back and complete.
I even found myself teaching at the Associates level (after I got my BS with the masters work I had done) and the quality of students, save those older who want it, was poor. I taught Anatomy & Physiology for two years at a community college. That was interesting!
Also, I agree with your statement "...four year degrees should not be sought by everyone. In fact, I have become a firm believer in the value of technical schools and trades." Absolutely! We have a lot of smart people whose time and talent is wasted going to get a 4-yr degree, when they are the bright ones we need in what I like to call "Thinking Technical Specialties".
Finally, many people as Winston Churchill once told someone "... don't know their own bloody history." Perhaps, if people "... learned to think for themselves (aka the process of critical thinking..." vs "...being so gullible and needing someone to tell them what to think...." we'd all prosper a little more by solving real problems in honest ways.
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CPO Nate S.
SGT Joseph Gunderson - Joe, yes! I know many "educated idiots". People who cannot stand to be challenged.
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CPO Nate S.
SGT Joseph Gunderson - The best officers during my service ALWAYS appreciate, with in the bounds of proper military customer and courtesies, being able to point out different points of view. After all, thoughtful officers always were able to keep the command focused on the mission by open and HONEST communication, but all those junior from the XO down knew that once the CO made their decision it was our just, after providing our due diligence to execute his directional orders. Of course, there is ONLY one exception to this rule. But, that is another, and could be very controversial discussion I'll table for another time!
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CPO Nate S.
SGT Joseph Gunderson - In the mean time would you do me a favor and read through this article https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S [login to see] 301836 and share your thoughts on its contents. For others, reading this thread, I'd be very happy to also hear from you.
Beyond war and PTSD: The crucial role of transition stress in the lives of military veterans
Although only a relatively small minority of military veterans develop Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), mental health theory and research with mi…
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
CPO Nate S. - Okay, so, few things. First, very interesting read; well-researched but I think that there could have definitely been more done to point out statistics. In papers such as this, I appreciate being able to review the numbers for myself. Second, I do like how it pointed out that there is a marked up-tick in the occurrences of PTSD among Post 9/11 Vets. That being said, there are reasons for this that should have been brought up; the turn around for vets in prior wars was far longer (ie in WWII you traveled to Europe or the Pacific via a ship that took weeks to go there or to return the SMs back home). This transition period allowed for a period of decompression and there is literature out there that could have been brought up. I think that it makes a great point in stating that there is a stigma, however, for the time period that this was written (2017) I don't think that the stigma can really be referenced to account for so few cases being uncovered. In the past decade there have been great strides in the veteran community and among SMs still serving to push one another to get help; none of us like to see people eat their guns. I do think that there is an issue with only being able to identify those with some issues through self-reporting. I am a firm believer that individuals should be mandated to go through some kind of one on one counseling after deployment; this would allow for issues to be identified immediately rather than waiting for that same soldier to beat some guy up at a bar while experiencing a flashback or scoring drugs to deal with the emotional baggage. Finally, there is really something to be said about the loss of identity and need for structure after leaving the military. There was nothing that affected me more than one day being a soldier, NCO, and leader and the next just being some unemployed guy with no direction and no reason to get out of bed the next morning. I'm not sure how to remedy this without trying a program that extended transition out from the ETS and phased people back into the civilian world; I suppose that is for people with higher paygrades than myself.
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I (used to) teach CompSci classes... programming is more art than science so it leaves a lot of room for creativity. I always told my students to strive for elegance in their code and would grade accordingly.
Some couldn’t script ‘Hello, World’ in DOS without assistance. Others were artists.
Now days i don’t teach anymore, but have friends who still do. From time to time i help grade *GRADUATE* level papers... APA format research papers...
Most can’t formulate a sentence, much less a coherent paragraph.
I weep for the future....
Some couldn’t script ‘Hello, World’ in DOS without assistance. Others were artists.
Now days i don’t teach anymore, but have friends who still do. From time to time i help grade *GRADUATE* level papers... APA format research papers...
Most can’t formulate a sentence, much less a coherent paragraph.
I weep for the future....
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SGT (Join to see)
High school has failed at producing literate people capable of doing basic math. Then, college used to shore up what high school didn't do. Now....?
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Military service prepares us for so very much but in my experience it also prepared me to be “UNDERWHELMED “ regarding 75% of civilian and or public safety educational opportunities. I learned to pick my battles and focus on the goal and not the “gaggle “ of the inexperienced being led by the untested.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson I graduated from a very demanding high school in 1968. After I was discharged in 1972, I worked full time and went to school full time. The junior college and university that I graduated from were also demanding. I studied hard in college and saw many students fall by the wayside because they were there to party or were unprepared for college work.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
I don't doubt that college was more demanding in 1968. I do know that it has become little better than a daycare in 2018.
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SPC Trish Sugas-Lopez
SSgt Joseph Baptist - Exactly. And after college, the plan was to infiltrate the schools" And they have. Changing things = indoctrination. Never once saw a student question or challenge a viewpoint of an instructor at the college level here in Cali.
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