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Did you make it to the top or close to the top of your military career? Did you lead and supervise subordinates either in the office or into battle? Are you able to manage and make key decisions in stressful situations? If yes, then stop window shopping at career fairs and start talking to all the employers there. You have the skills we are looking for, whether you know it or not, and they may not be in the last career or job that you did!
Through out my 14 years of recruiting I have noticed one common trait among job seekers... Most become introverts at career fairs and seem to be just, "Window Shopping" when attending career fairs!
To Expand, I am a people watcher, always have been, always will be. When I watch candidates enter career fairs, they are talking to their friends, have anxious and excited smiles, but then, for some reason, they see that first booth and their eyes go down and they walk right by...and the second booth, and the third booth and so on. It seems most are only looking for that one job, that one booth among the hundreds there. And just like them, all of those employers are looking for that one or two special candidates that they can hire onto their team.
So as simple as it is, my advice to all job seekers is this... stop and smell the roses. In other words, check out all your opportunities. So many people walk right by employer tables that could be a perfect fit for them...letting that "opportunity that was knocking" slip away because they are either too scared, shy, or think that career isn't for them. How about in the future, just for curiosity’s sake, walk up to one of those tables you don' think has anything for you and say, "what opportunities and growth can you give me, here is my resume and this is what I can give to you." You might be surprised at what you may learn about that company as well as what skills you already have that could be a perfect fit for them. Remember, you probably had little experience with the jobs on your resume when you first started with them, but you learned the job and maybe even excelled at it.
So, my message is...don't sell yourself short, you might just have been the next CEO of that table you just walked by... "Stop Window Shopping and Smell the Roses!"
Through out my 14 years of recruiting I have noticed one common trait among job seekers... Most become introverts at career fairs and seem to be just, "Window Shopping" when attending career fairs!
To Expand, I am a people watcher, always have been, always will be. When I watch candidates enter career fairs, they are talking to their friends, have anxious and excited smiles, but then, for some reason, they see that first booth and their eyes go down and they walk right by...and the second booth, and the third booth and so on. It seems most are only looking for that one job, that one booth among the hundreds there. And just like them, all of those employers are looking for that one or two special candidates that they can hire onto their team.
So as simple as it is, my advice to all job seekers is this... stop and smell the roses. In other words, check out all your opportunities. So many people walk right by employer tables that could be a perfect fit for them...letting that "opportunity that was knocking" slip away because they are either too scared, shy, or think that career isn't for them. How about in the future, just for curiosity’s sake, walk up to one of those tables you don' think has anything for you and say, "what opportunities and growth can you give me, here is my resume and this is what I can give to you." You might be surprised at what you may learn about that company as well as what skills you already have that could be a perfect fit for them. Remember, you probably had little experience with the jobs on your resume when you first started with them, but you learned the job and maybe even excelled at it.
So, my message is...don't sell yourself short, you might just have been the next CEO of that table you just walked by... "Stop Window Shopping and Smell the Roses!"
Civilian Career
Jobs
Command Post
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 9
2
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I went to a few military only job fairs in 2008 when the economy tanked. Not having an active security clearance was a major hindrance. With the abundance of active members getting out with clearances, most companies had a plethora of choices. Needless to say, for me trying to get back into the defense industry, which most of the employers were defense related, was not good for me.
Oddly enough, the day I got a job, 6 months later, I received 2 job offers from defense related companies that I found through usajobs dot com. In both interviews I was humble and answered everything I could while admitting when I didn't know the answer, but let them know I knew how to research when needed.
As a developer without a sheep skin who competed for a position against people with masters degrees, I am happy to say I work for a company that was just listed in the S&P 500 last year.
Oddly enough, the day I got a job, 6 months later, I received 2 job offers from defense related companies that I found through usajobs dot com. In both interviews I was humble and answered everything I could while admitting when I didn't know the answer, but let them know I knew how to research when needed.
As a developer without a sheep skin who competed for a position against people with masters degrees, I am happy to say I work for a company that was just listed in the S&P 500 last year.
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Thank you all for the Great Responses!!! I am hearing a constant theme on the employers that come to these events and what type of people they are looking for. I couldn't agree more that I have personally witnessed some of the employers with tunnel vision as far as who they are looking for and who they are not.
A couple key problems I have seen from employers are these:
1. They aren't' recruiters! They are actually employees of the company and were picked, or volunteered, to be at the event. They may have HR background, however, that is a lot different then having Recruiting background.
2. They sit behind the table at their booth and wait for potential employees to come to them. Personally, if you sit there like a bump on a log I wouldn't walk up and engage them either...boring!!!!
3. Freebies...the more freebies they have the more they are there for "Public Awareness" instead of recruiting. Public awareness is great but how many people actually call them because they received a foam basketball or some other novelty item. Those items usually end up as pet toys :)
4. They disappear! I can't tell you how many empty tables I see through out career fairs or how many empty tables I see near the end of a career fair. Employers that want to be there and that are actively recruiting will stay for the whole event if possible.
5. Finally, Background Clearances. At Farmers we have to do a background check on every prospective agent, regardless if they have a current one from another company or even the Government. More then likely, most other civilian companies will have to do their own also as we don't have access to Government Clearances. This is one of those "It is what it is" things.
For me, I personally stand in front of my table/booth so, if you are within reach be prepared for me to engage and talk to you. The material on my table is geared towards hiring people. I have awareness items too, however, these are normally brochures and visuals displays. I may break down and buy candy also :)
Once again I understand your frustrations with some of the employers and all I can say is there are some there that truly want to meet you and possibly set up a follow up interview...like me!
Good luck to you all and if you are ever thinking about a possible career as a Farmers Agency Owner hit me back. I don't sugar coat the job and back up my words by setting my candidates up with current agents so they can talk to them about the position and also validate what I have told them.
Al
Thank you all for the Great Responses!!! I am hearing a constant theme on the employers that come to these events and what type of people they are looking for. I couldn't agree more that I have personally witnessed some of the employers with tunnel vision as far as who they are looking for and who they are not.
A couple key problems I have seen from employers are these:
1. They aren't' recruiters! They are actually employees of the company and were picked, or volunteered, to be at the event. They may have HR background, however, that is a lot different then having Recruiting background.
2. They sit behind the table at their booth and wait for potential employees to come to them. Personally, if you sit there like a bump on a log I wouldn't walk up and engage them either...boring!!!!
3. Freebies...the more freebies they have the more they are there for "Public Awareness" instead of recruiting. Public awareness is great but how many people actually call them because they received a foam basketball or some other novelty item. Those items usually end up as pet toys :)
4. They disappear! I can't tell you how many empty tables I see through out career fairs or how many empty tables I see near the end of a career fair. Employers that want to be there and that are actively recruiting will stay for the whole event if possible.
5. Finally, Background Clearances. At Farmers we have to do a background check on every prospective agent, regardless if they have a current one from another company or even the Government. More then likely, most other civilian companies will have to do their own also as we don't have access to Government Clearances. This is one of those "It is what it is" things.
For me, I personally stand in front of my table/booth so, if you are within reach be prepared for me to engage and talk to you. The material on my table is geared towards hiring people. I have awareness items too, however, these are normally brochures and visuals displays. I may break down and buy candy also :)
Once again I understand your frustrations with some of the employers and all I can say is there are some there that truly want to meet you and possibly set up a follow up interview...like me!
Good luck to you all and if you are ever thinking about a possible career as a Farmers Agency Owner hit me back. I don't sugar coat the job and back up my words by setting my candidates up with current agents so they can talk to them about the position and also validate what I have told them.
Al
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Just a few observations. These all center around the concept of knowing what tool you are using and how to use it. (AKA, when all you have is a hammer....)
Most of the comments here seem to be focused on "military only" job fairs (i.e. the clearance vs. non-clearance rooms, etc). If you are looking for a job, don't limit yourself to a "ex-military only" forum. And fully expect that the "military only" job fairs are looking for one-termers to take entry-level jobs. It would be surprising if it were otherwise. (That is not a dig on the military, it is a dig on the entry-level skill pool & its motivation.) Don't limit yourself to "military only" job fairs, unless that is how you want to define yourself in the marketplace.
Most of the comments seem to be focused on getting a job & whether the company currently has positions. In an ideal world, they do have positions, but that really isn't necessary. They could even have interviewers on the spot and make offers then and there - though I would argue that that would be bad for the candidate..... INSTEAD, use the job fair experience to gain knowledge of what employers & positions exist out there in the marketplace and what knowledge, skills, abilities, and experience they are looking for. With this knowledge, you can now better target your job search.
Most of the comments seem put out that the people manning the booth aren't "qualified" to evaluate a candidate. I would argue that this is both WRONG and misses the point. It is wrong because the prospective employer gets to decide who makes evaluation and hiring decisions. Does this mean that a 22 year old, fresh from college, 2 weeks on the job, and with no real-world experience gets to decide if a 46 yo LTC or CSM with 25+ years of service is qualified to be an assistant manger at X company? Yes. Yes, it does. It may not be fair, but it is accurate. Whether a company would actually give that authority to such a junior person, and whether they would be smart to do so, is a separate issue, which doesn't need to be addressed because 1) you can't change it from your role as a job applicant and 2) see below.
The good news is the second part - it misses the point. In the vast majority of cases, the person in the booth is NOT there to recruit/hire you. They are there to market their company to prospective applicants and generate leads/collect resumes. They are there to prime the pump, not close the deal. Without doing any research whatsoever, I would be surprised if 1 in 25 reps at an average job fair is empowered to make an offer. Especially for non-entry level positions.
Use Job Fairs for what they actually are - mutual marketing events to generate leads for both applicants and employers. Get what value you can from such events, while not obsessing about their limitations. You may find out about an industry that you had never heard of or seriously considered.
NOTE: I'm actually not a big fan of job fairs, but mostly because I don't like crowds, don't need potential employer swag, and feel I can research adequately on my own.
Most of the comments here seem to be focused on "military only" job fairs (i.e. the clearance vs. non-clearance rooms, etc). If you are looking for a job, don't limit yourself to a "ex-military only" forum. And fully expect that the "military only" job fairs are looking for one-termers to take entry-level jobs. It would be surprising if it were otherwise. (That is not a dig on the military, it is a dig on the entry-level skill pool & its motivation.) Don't limit yourself to "military only" job fairs, unless that is how you want to define yourself in the marketplace.
Most of the comments seem to be focused on getting a job & whether the company currently has positions. In an ideal world, they do have positions, but that really isn't necessary. They could even have interviewers on the spot and make offers then and there - though I would argue that that would be bad for the candidate..... INSTEAD, use the job fair experience to gain knowledge of what employers & positions exist out there in the marketplace and what knowledge, skills, abilities, and experience they are looking for. With this knowledge, you can now better target your job search.
Most of the comments seem put out that the people manning the booth aren't "qualified" to evaluate a candidate. I would argue that this is both WRONG and misses the point. It is wrong because the prospective employer gets to decide who makes evaluation and hiring decisions. Does this mean that a 22 year old, fresh from college, 2 weeks on the job, and with no real-world experience gets to decide if a 46 yo LTC or CSM with 25+ years of service is qualified to be an assistant manger at X company? Yes. Yes, it does. It may not be fair, but it is accurate. Whether a company would actually give that authority to such a junior person, and whether they would be smart to do so, is a separate issue, which doesn't need to be addressed because 1) you can't change it from your role as a job applicant and 2) see below.
The good news is the second part - it misses the point. In the vast majority of cases, the person in the booth is NOT there to recruit/hire you. They are there to market their company to prospective applicants and generate leads/collect resumes. They are there to prime the pump, not close the deal. Without doing any research whatsoever, I would be surprised if 1 in 25 reps at an average job fair is empowered to make an offer. Especially for non-entry level positions.
Use Job Fairs for what they actually are - mutual marketing events to generate leads for both applicants and employers. Get what value you can from such events, while not obsessing about their limitations. You may find out about an industry that you had never heard of or seriously considered.
NOTE: I'm actually not a big fan of job fairs, but mostly because I don't like crowds, don't need potential employer swag, and feel I can research adequately on my own.
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Excellent advice! Thank you! I have yet to go to a job fair. Timing is bad, but would like to try to go to some when I move back to NC. I will certainly keep my options open and not rule anyone out when I do go.
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I've been to a couple of pacific northwest job fairs advertised for "veterans only" in the past year and here are my observations:
- Too many colleges/universities there trying to milk that GI Bill money out of you. Why are they even allowed in the door? People are looking for jobs here, not trying to further their education.
- Almost every company with a booth has a 20-25 year old rep there, that in no way had the ability to assess my experience and potential contributions. You are looking for a management job these kids can only dream of having. Just walk away.
- Had TWO reps tell me that they, "Don't like hiring former Naval Officers". I was going to say "But I'm a Warrant Officer", but was too offended.
- Most every single company is/was looking for minimum wage, one-tour veterans/employees and in no way trying to "place" a qualified candidate.
I don't go there any more because these places take my enthusiasm and chunk it in the trash can. I'm still seeking that organization that advertises "We love hiring veterans", and truly means it. So far it's a myth.
- Too many colleges/universities there trying to milk that GI Bill money out of you. Why are they even allowed in the door? People are looking for jobs here, not trying to further their education.
- Almost every company with a booth has a 20-25 year old rep there, that in no way had the ability to assess my experience and potential contributions. You are looking for a management job these kids can only dream of having. Just walk away.
- Had TWO reps tell me that they, "Don't like hiring former Naval Officers". I was going to say "But I'm a Warrant Officer", but was too offended.
- Most every single company is/was looking for minimum wage, one-tour veterans/employees and in no way trying to "place" a qualified candidate.
I don't go there any more because these places take my enthusiasm and chunk it in the trash can. I'm still seeking that organization that advertises "We love hiring veterans", and truly means it. So far it's a myth.
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I went to job fairs when I was a new teacher, but no more. It's a meat market, and I'm surrounded by a bunch of 20-somethings who see me in a jacket and tie and assume I'm a principal of some school...
I instead use resources that work, such as watching school websites, EdZapp, and simply knowing fellow teachers.
I instead use resources that work, such as watching school websites, EdZapp, and simply knowing fellow teachers.
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Not so fast.....don't know where you've been going to Job Fairs at...but it's not where I am. You show up at the job fair - you've pre-registered and you're immediately isolated. Those with active clearances are shuttled off to an entirely different room and those without active clearances are ... left to fend for themselves. The room of the "have not's" are left with maybe 8, 9 tables and the guys at those tables KNOW those left with them are NOT the cream of the crop....
So, you're brave you walk up and they guy at the table ignores you. You go to the next and the result is close to the same - no one engages you effectively nor do they even spend the time discussing the jobs they have - the constant refrain is: "get on the website - it won't take you more than an hour to do the mandatory stuff and then you can see what jobs exist in our company." You go through all 9 tables - pretty much the same result. Not once did anyone ask for your resume or engage you in any conversation. One even asked me - "why are you here? - the only people getting interviews are those with clearances."
I've been to no less than 11 such in the past 14 years....all the same.
So, you're brave you walk up and they guy at the table ignores you. You go to the next and the result is close to the same - no one engages you effectively nor do they even spend the time discussing the jobs they have - the constant refrain is: "get on the website - it won't take you more than an hour to do the mandatory stuff and then you can see what jobs exist in our company." You go through all 9 tables - pretty much the same result. Not once did anyone ask for your resume or engage you in any conversation. One even asked me - "why are you here? - the only people getting interviews are those with clearances."
I've been to no less than 11 such in the past 14 years....all the same.
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CDR Thomas Gatliffe
There are "Job Fairs" and there are "Job Unfairs" to be sure. The job fairs that want folks with active clearances represent a relatively small chunk of the government contractors and are those usually clustered around DC or major DOD installations. They like active clearances because they don't have to spend the time and money to get them reinstated. When I first went to work for a contractor for the Department of Energy, I had to get a whole new set of clearances so they only cared about my DOD clearances to the extent that they could piggy-back onto the existing DOD background investigations and it only took 10 months for the "Q" clearance (DOE's version of TS) to come through instead of the usual 12-13 months. (I joke that it wouldn't have even taken that long except the investigating agencies lost several agents talking to the bar girls in some of the Singapore dives I used to frequent.) I also looked in other areas of the country that I would like to live in rather than just around my last duty station. I looked in professional trade publications for contractor job openings, too. In fact, that was the source of my first job that morphed into a second 20+ year career with different contractors over time. Recruiters are not the only source of jobs and because they have seemingly a ton of good folks to choose from, they can be fairly hard-nosed. Don't limit your search options just to job fairs if you want to avoid a lot of discouragement. Try to be willing to take a chance. It was kind of scary having to drive a couple of thousand miles pulling an auto trailer behind a loaded-up U'Haul truck to get to that first job, leaving 3 kids and a house sale in the hands of my wife and have them join me a few months later, but you have to have confidence that you can make it work out. Hang in there.
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PO1 (Join to see)
CDR Thomas Gatliffe Excellent points! It's incumbent upon all searching for a job to look in the odd spots! My first job after retirement had absolutely NOTHING to do with the military.
My point was and is: the Job Fairs seem to be nothing more than fluff. None of the recruiters seem to be interested in establishing any sort of relationship with the very potent manpower cadre in front of them. In fact, here in RP, I have actually seen/heard from more recruiters with military experience than I have in the 15 years since I retired. Every SINGLE recruiter I've talked to at EVERY Job Fair I've been to had NO MILITARY EXPERIENCE. That, in and of itself, is a huge issue that these companies just don't get. All of these companies say they want military types in their company but these companies don't have a clue - unless those companies are part of the military-industrial complex. And don't get me started on their HR departments - haven't met but one HR department that even understood anything - not even the smallest IOTA of what it means to serve.
True story: I had a second interview for a company coming up. I was excited - naturally. Had a scheduled time/place for the interview, plane tickets, hotel, car, the works. I'm sitting in the waiting room for part of my annual physical at the VA and I get a call. I make nice at the front desk - the guy understands - so I step out to take the call. The second interview has been moved up to TODAY...can I make it? Seriously? It's a 4 hour flight to start with - but yeah - if they can switch the tickets...sure. Question comes up - did we disturb your schedule? Yeah, I was sitting waiting to have the vampires take my blood at the VA. Phone goes silent.....then the voice goes: "I'm sorry, if we'd know you were broken and were part of the VA we would have never even considered you." *CLICK* Broken?!? Yeah, I know it's a perception issue - but it's there.
My point was and is: the Job Fairs seem to be nothing more than fluff. None of the recruiters seem to be interested in establishing any sort of relationship with the very potent manpower cadre in front of them. In fact, here in RP, I have actually seen/heard from more recruiters with military experience than I have in the 15 years since I retired. Every SINGLE recruiter I've talked to at EVERY Job Fair I've been to had NO MILITARY EXPERIENCE. That, in and of itself, is a huge issue that these companies just don't get. All of these companies say they want military types in their company but these companies don't have a clue - unless those companies are part of the military-industrial complex. And don't get me started on their HR departments - haven't met but one HR department that even understood anything - not even the smallest IOTA of what it means to serve.
True story: I had a second interview for a company coming up. I was excited - naturally. Had a scheduled time/place for the interview, plane tickets, hotel, car, the works. I'm sitting in the waiting room for part of my annual physical at the VA and I get a call. I make nice at the front desk - the guy understands - so I step out to take the call. The second interview has been moved up to TODAY...can I make it? Seriously? It's a 4 hour flight to start with - but yeah - if they can switch the tickets...sure. Question comes up - did we disturb your schedule? Yeah, I was sitting waiting to have the vampires take my blood at the VA. Phone goes silent.....then the voice goes: "I'm sorry, if we'd know you were broken and were part of the VA we would have never even considered you." *CLICK* Broken?!? Yeah, I know it's a perception issue - but it's there.
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