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I asked a former female Marine if she had experienced an overwhelming amount of sexual harassment/assault while she served in the Corps. To my extreme surprise this was her response (paraphrased of course):
No. No, not at all. One time I was in the barracks and a guy in my unit snuck into my room and tried forcing himself on me. I started screaming and within a few seconds this whole crowd of Marines came barging into my room and carried him off. They’re my brothers, why would they let anyone hurt me?
Now THAT is honor and loyalty.
This brought tears to my eyes for two reasons.
Reason One: I was so overwhelmed and happy these Marines heard a fellow Marine in trouble and they came running to her rescue. There was no hesitation, no passive intervention and no second thoughts. That's just mind-blowing to me.
Reason Two: My mind was blown because very rarely has a male Soldier stood up for me like that. Matter of fact, I rarely hear any male Soldiers stand up for women like that.
I was raised where men watch their mouths around women, men hold open doors for ladies, and men take out the trash while women wash the dishes. I understand and learn more every day how the military is far from being the Southern paradise where knights in shining armor rescue damsels in distress. I also understand some women don’t like being treated that way. Roger, tracking.
Maybe those Marines who busted in her room didn’t care that she was a woman, they just heard one of their fellow Marines in trouble. Regardless of why, their actions and her response portrayed a very different world from what I know in the Army and that saddens me.
Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Maybe so.
Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? I don't think so.
No. No, not at all. One time I was in the barracks and a guy in my unit snuck into my room and tried forcing himself on me. I started screaming and within a few seconds this whole crowd of Marines came barging into my room and carried him off. They’re my brothers, why would they let anyone hurt me?
Now THAT is honor and loyalty.
This brought tears to my eyes for two reasons.
Reason One: I was so overwhelmed and happy these Marines heard a fellow Marine in trouble and they came running to her rescue. There was no hesitation, no passive intervention and no second thoughts. That's just mind-blowing to me.
Reason Two: My mind was blown because very rarely has a male Soldier stood up for me like that. Matter of fact, I rarely hear any male Soldiers stand up for women like that.
I was raised where men watch their mouths around women, men hold open doors for ladies, and men take out the trash while women wash the dishes. I understand and learn more every day how the military is far from being the Southern paradise where knights in shining armor rescue damsels in distress. I also understand some women don’t like being treated that way. Roger, tracking.
Maybe those Marines who busted in her room didn’t care that she was a woman, they just heard one of their fellow Marines in trouble. Regardless of why, their actions and her response portrayed a very different world from what I know in the Army and that saddens me.
Is it sexist for me to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers? Maybe so.
Is it too much to ask for Soldiers to stand up for Soldiers, regardless of gender? I don't think so.
Sexual Harassment
Sexual Assault
Gender
Women in the Military
Command Post
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 197
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I think part of it is how individuals were raised. I have gotten in fights and near fights because someone insulted or hit a female acquaintance and would happily lay an ass kicking on a stranger if I saw them hit a female I didn't know, but I would have done that before I was in the service. But I couldn't tell you how many times I've run interference or pretended to be a friends boyfriend to keep creepers at bay.
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Cpl Sharon Robino-West
Thank you Derrick. I think you get the point. And bystander awareness and intervention are some of the ways to change this. Honorable military members do feel as the LTC stated (zero tolerance) - but we know that not all of those who serve are honorable. The ones who are predators should not be protected - they should be dishonorably discharged and added to the sex offender registry. After all, they go back out into society and then who do they prey on next...your mother, your sister, your wife???
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It looks like the bulk of the discussion happened months back, so I'll keep this brief. It is not sexist to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers. As you said, it should happen regardless of gender. I think what is being described is a cohesive and strong unit, not a shortcoming of male Soldiers Army wide. A unit with high morale and Esprit de Corps is going to produce the type of individuals being described. In that respect, I think absolutely the Marine Corps has an advantage.
I do think unfortunately there is some level of an "us versus them" mentality within the Army. We've created a climate where many males are hesitant to interact with or correct females.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-are-males-afraid-to-correct-females
This post discusses some of it. If we can find a way to build mutual trust between genders while still mitigating the issues with SHARP we'll all be better off as a force.
I do think unfortunately there is some level of an "us versus them" mentality within the Army. We've created a climate where many males are hesitant to interact with or correct females.
https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/why-are-males-afraid-to-correct-females
This post discusses some of it. If we can find a way to build mutual trust between genders while still mitigating the issues with SHARP we'll all be better off as a force.
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I agree with you we should all stand up for each other no matter what your sex is if we here someone in distress be it Army, Navy, Marines or Air force male or female does not matter we should help out.
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Great story. Very encouraging.
It absolutely is not sexist for you to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers. That's how it should be. But unfortunately, that is not the case.
I was raised in the Pacific Northwest, which is vastly different from the South, but common courtesy and respect were a major part of my upbringing. Part of why I joined the Army is because I felt the Army's values were in-line with my own. However, I think there are a lot people that do not take our values to heart and do not live them everyday.
Soldiers should stand up for each other, regardless of gender.
It absolutely is not sexist for you to expect male Soldiers to stand up for female Soldiers. That's how it should be. But unfortunately, that is not the case.
I was raised in the Pacific Northwest, which is vastly different from the South, but common courtesy and respect were a major part of my upbringing. Part of why I joined the Army is because I felt the Army's values were in-line with my own. However, I think there are a lot people that do not take our values to heart and do not live them everyday.
Soldiers should stand up for each other, regardless of gender.
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I would agree with Chief Larkin and SSG Taylor below; units with high disciplinary problems will see these situation occur far more than units with stern but fairly enforced standards.
Further, why do we differentiate between male and female soldiers? When it comes down to it, does it matter. A soldier is a soldier, MOS aside the Army strives to replace individuality in every aspect with a team before self mentality; yet for some reason they abandon that principle hen discussing gender/sex standards.
Further, why do we differentiate between male and female soldiers? When it comes down to it, does it matter. A soldier is a soldier, MOS aside the Army strives to replace individuality in every aspect with a team before self mentality; yet for some reason they abandon that principle hen discussing gender/sex standards.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
I completely agree SSG (Join to see). We're all told we're soldiers...until we get to our housing areas where we're separated by gender and the females all have lacks on their doors but the males don't.
It's ridiculous.
It's ridiculous.
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Should be required reading...
"Your knight in shining armor" by P.B. Wilson
Book for women, but can teach a man how to be a real man...
Your Knight in Shining Armor, P. B. Wilson.
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=XfngAAAAQBAJ
If its only for the second, one second makes the biggest difference
"Your knight in shining armor" by P.B. Wilson
Book for women, but can teach a man how to be a real man...
Your Knight in Shining Armor, P. B. Wilson.
https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=XfngAAAAQBAJ
If its only for the second, one second makes the biggest difference
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I can't speak to your experience, but I strongly disagree that the Marines stand up for their females more than the Army. Especially based off a single story. When I came up in the barracks we took care of female soldiers. I've personally witnessed soldiers intervening in situations where sister soldiers were either in harm or being discriminated against. It does stop at protecting service women. I remember a situation in BNOC where a classmate and myself stopped a guy on the street from Getting physical with his girlfriend. Soldiers have a duty to up hold a high set of values and they do so regularly. Thise you have failed to do so in your situation should in no way speak for the Army as a whole.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
Sir, like you said, you can't speak for my experience, which, in addition to the former female Marine, this blog specifically reflected two women's specific experiences.
Just because you and your male battle buddies defended females (and I'm sure continue to do so) doesn't mean my experiences didn't happen or that my concerns aren't valid.
To tell me, a victim of sexual harassment and sexual assault, that I failed to uphold a high set of values in my situation is extremely unprofessional, insulting and inappropriate.
Once again, this blog was written based on my personal experience which in no way represents all of the US Army or all of the US Marine Corps.
Just because you and your male battle buddies defended females (and I'm sure continue to do so) doesn't mean my experiences didn't happen or that my concerns aren't valid.
To tell me, a victim of sexual harassment and sexual assault, that I failed to uphold a high set of values in my situation is extremely unprofessional, insulting and inappropriate.
Once again, this blog was written based on my personal experience which in no way represents all of the US Army or all of the US Marine Corps.
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1LT (Join to see)
I didn't say you failed to do anything. I was referring to those that failed you. So hold that thought. I'm sensitive to your situation. I said you can't down the entire army for the actions of a few. Your post appeared to attack the Army and present it as less responsive to the concerns of sexual harassment than the Marine Corp. My qualm was with that negative and generalized comparison, not with your individual experience. My personal example was merely that. One personal example, but I've been in the army for over 12 years and have seen very positive cultural changes and for that I found your post a bit lopsided. By no means does that go to discredit you or ignore the painful experiences you've endured. I'm not perfect and the army certainly isn't, but I think as a community we are levels above most. Even our sister services.
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1LT (Join to see)
I see the problem now. I was typing from my phone and some words we're missing, misspelled, or misplaced. My final line should've said "those who failed...in your situation." I was referring to those who either harmed you or failed to protect you. I apologize if you took it as a personal attack.
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
1LT (Join to see)
Thank you so much for clarifying and I appreciate your sincerity.
I've noticed a cultural change as well, just within the last year. I'm sure part of this positive change is because I'm a SSG and less soldiers are as bold with me these days.
I also believe it's due to service members exposing their harassment and assault cases instead of covering it up in addition to service members learning about what a real problem this has been. The more we acknowledge and recognize it, the stronger our military will become. And that is awesome to see and be a part of.
Thank you so much for clarifying and I appreciate your sincerity.
I've noticed a cultural change as well, just within the last year. I'm sure part of this positive change is because I'm a SSG and less soldiers are as bold with me these days.
I also believe it's due to service members exposing their harassment and assault cases instead of covering it up in addition to service members learning about what a real problem this has been. The more we acknowledge and recognize it, the stronger our military will become. And that is awesome to see and be a part of.
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I am former Army, my husband a former Marine. We tease each other about who has the better armed force. I joined the Mans Army, I was the last cycle of experimental males and females together in basic training. When in basic we were all one force, one team, one unit. Esprit de corps was all we had day and night, together. It was great! Then we went to AIT school, and there was the wake up call! The same guys we pulled out of the mud or helped one of us suddenly was a sexist prick who felt we should have washed out. This was the unhappy few that were in supply jobs and wanted the coveted CBI but still.... There will always be issues as long as there are 2 sexes. I think most of us are adult enough to get over it but, there are pervs every where. In every service every job, civilian and armed forces. I even had a guy tell me to pick up a final drive by myself because I joined the military to be a man and a man could pick that up so I should be able to do that alone. This particular final drive weighed over 500 lbs, most of them weigh much more and require a fork lift to move. This was the milder forms of sexual harassment that I have experienced. I have been propositioned in a doctors office while naked, groped in various places, told I was being passed for promotion for a male because of course "I was just looking for a husband". I even lost my career in the ARMY because I wouldn't do horizontal favors for a sgt and a capt in my command. The Capt even showed up on my doorstep after I was discharged stating that "Now you don't have to worry about your rank and mine, You want to go out?". Most of the guys that I have talked to about this have said that had they known about it they would have rearranged a face or two for me. Back then you kept your mouth shut, I am glad there is more transparency now. On the subject of Marines, I'd call them any day if I needed help. Most of the ones I have known are outstanding human beings, male or female. Ignore the former Marine laughing in the corner telling me the Marines Always rescue the Army. Nah mommas got a carry permit now....
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Military members, regardless of gender or branch, should stand up for military members in need, regardless of gender or branch. Sexual violence is something that no one in the military should stand for and I don't know what those Marine's did to that dirtbag but I have a pretty good idea.
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That would be nice but there are as many rapist and sex offenders in the Marines as any other branch. I like to add that some if most might not have read the article of the murdered marine female who her unit failed to protect her after she filled a sexual assault against her rapist and future killer.......
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SSG V. Michelle Woods
1SG SGM (Join to see)
This isn't a representation of all soldiers or all Marines. It only represents my specific experience and the specific experience of one female Marine.
Both branches have their bad apples and everyone's individual experiences are different. There are plenty of female troops on this thread who have nothing but good things to say about their male battle buddies.
This isn't a representation of all soldiers or all Marines. It only represents my specific experience and the specific experience of one female Marine.
Both branches have their bad apples and everyone's individual experiences are different. There are plenty of female troops on this thread who have nothing but good things to say about their male battle buddies.
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