Transgender Service Members: Serving in Silence

I don't believe transgender is one of them. I am not satisfied with the concept of gender unless it is backed up by peer reviewed neuroscience research rather than folkways and traditions. I also don't care if someone in the barracks I use is transgender because such people are not going to sexually assault me. If a physician or a nurse of the opposite sex is examining me I abide no superstition about what she sees so why should I worry about it so long as nothing has any credible sexual harassing context.

Ultimately it comes down to the answer to one question: Is the person deployable?

If you need to take any kind of maintenance medication... doesn't matter if it's for cholesterol, diabetes, high blood pressure, post-op transgender, or any other chronic medical conditions... you are non-deployable because if you do not get those medications your health can deteriorate to a point where you cannot complete your mission. If you have any kind of physical deformity or other physical condition beyond requiring eyeglasses, you also tend to be considered non-deployable depending on the condition.

Is it possible to say that such personnel must be limited to either CONUS or an in-theater fixed facility assignment to continue their service, but if those positions are also necessary for people without those chronic conditions to go through proper career advancement or to otherwise obtain necessary qualifications, restricting those positions to people with chronic medical conditions requiring maintenance medication makes the military about the person and not about retaining the best, brightest, and most capable personnel.

LTC (Join to see) - As MSG Sand responded to your post, it is, above all else, about standards; but it's also about distractions. Distractions do indeed disrupt the mission, and in military operations, disruptions simply must be avoided at all costs. Distractions become real issues when those distractions cannot be overcome and affect behavior and performance. You used racial minorities and women as examples of beneficial inclusion. Fortunately, we live in a society that, contrary to the popular buzz, does not have a race problem. Americans have evolved to the degree that truly intelligent and informed racists simply no longer exist in this country; except for those who employ the topic of racism for political gain, but that's a separate issue. Women in combat is an entirely different matter. Arguably, women can do any job as well as a man, provided physical stamina and endurance are not relevant factors in the task; however, it has been successfully demonstrated that most women lack the mental toughness for combat. While there are certainly exceptions, they are in fact exceptions. Likewise, there are men who also lack this toughness, but they are the exceptions and they are hopefully weeded out. In this day and age, it is not possible to eliminate a woman just because she's not up to the job. When the topic of gender comes into play, "inclusion" is more important than effectiveness. Then there are the distractions involved. Male POWs may experience tremendous anguish watching a colleague be beaten and tortured, but can still maintain their composure and continue to think clearly through it. Those same men may have far more difficulty watching a woman get tortured and gang raped. It makes everyone far more vulnerable. And let's suppose that certain issues come down to nothing more than old-fashioned chauvinism. It may not be "fair" for this environment to exist, but the mere fact that it often does is reason enough not to let it affect readiness. Face it, while there is the rare exception of the superior female warrior, no fighting force has ever been made more effective by the inclusion of women. The same holds true of gays and transexuals.

In adding to MSG Sand's response.....
The US armed forces, tasked with the protection and safeguarding of our freedoms from those who would take it from us, is no place for Social Equity, social experimentation or social engineering and never a forum for expressing one's individuality. It reminds me a bit of our Joint exercises with NATO in the 1990s, where long hair, sloppy dress, wearing of personal buttons and pins on their uniform was allowed and use of marijuana was tolerated in certain Nordic countries. The quip amongst US and British forces was these units make formidable military units....until somebody shoots at them.

CPT William Gordon - You can pull down a PDF to Word converter from the internet. Just use your favorite search engine and type in PDF to Word converter. I use it so often I created a shortcut on my desktop.
Thanks,
Rick

Perfect illustration of how misused the 'D' word is. Discrimination is merely the selection from among alternatives. Any time one applicant is selected from a group, discrimination takes place. There's nothing wrong with standards, and there's tremendous danger in tampering with how an entity chooses to discriminate.

You forgot you ain’t got no hair.

SFC (Join to see) - Please send me this PDF to me at [login to see]

It is bad when something comes up in the middle of a long post/attempted explanation of reasoning.

If Trans have not fully transitioned, they are not the other gender. So it would be unjust and lead to problems to put an untransitioned “female” in with the females, “male” with males.

It’s not a matter whether a person is willing to work or have a desire to serve their country. Their special needs are a burden on the military and destabilizing, just as if a bunch of handicapped people were allowed to enlist. Why can’t my husband who can’t walk right enlist?

When it comes to "Progressive thinking", what makes "sense" is not always a required ingredient. Rules and regs. put in place many years ago by the military made sense then and nothing in the ensuing years has changed that.

I agree SSG James J. Palmer IV - wish we'd all seen it when it was going on. Hope these members stop the personal attacks and become more professional.

This thread really turned disappointing. Not a very professional discussion when you just insult each other. That makes it the internet version of a barroom brawl.

Anon CPO Service member set a new low for lack of decorum and professionalism. Please disregard the post, which has been removed.

I agree with SSG James J. Palmer IV aka "JP4"

CW2 Ben Schwartfigure Ideally, Chief, we would be held to the standard we identify with as soon as we start HRT, since that's when the physical changes in appearance and performance start. Current regulations hold us to the standards for our assigned gender at birth until all surgical and legal procedures are complete, and DEERS sees fit to update our info. That leaves MtF folks like myself working 3 or 4 times as hard just to continue meeting standard, with an eventual breaking point where we can't do so anymore no matter how hard we try.

But that eould make too much sense, and would actually allow us to serve normally without further increased hardship beyond what our fellow SMs experience, so the DoD and all the various commands therein will never do that

It’s not a mind born in the “wrong body.” If someone is struggling resolve the issue, don’t think you can serve and the military should fix your dysphoria. If you can serve, serve if you want. Bit don’t turn it into a social experiment and ask the nation to “accept” you as you decide your sexual desires are more important than the nation. Selfish focus on self instead of service

Bullshit. Hormonal treatments, surgery, repeat surgeries, recovery, etc. is WAY more than a week. If it is so simple why do the transgender treatments cost $500k to $1M? The military is there to protect the nation not there to be a social experiment for theorists. SFC Scott Parkhurst

Excellent point, internal feelings are personal, wanting others to invest in your desires and pay for it all is wrong. SFC Scott Parkhurst

Thank you SPC Brandon "Wheelz" Wheeldon!! I'll always continue to give my all to serve our country... and hopefully my work will continue to keep everyone safe! It's nice to meet you and keep in touch!

It's always nice to see another transgender servicemember/veteran. Dunno how you managed to make it 11 and a half years, sister. You're far more resilient than I ever was, I suppose. I'm sure you already know but the VA covers the HRT portion of your transition and it's a fairly simple process (at least in California) to get it started.

bravo Zulu SSgt Nicole Biscoe thanks for your hard work and dedication you are an inspiration to those that follow you and hopefully one day your work will help pave the way for transgendered people serving in the military

SSgt Biscoe,

1st, thank you for your service!

2nd, I'm hopeful that you find that freedom you seek in the civilian world, hopefully you and others like you will be that catalyst for change within the military sector.

God Bless!

MCPO Katrina Hutcherson -
Master Chief,
I find it hard to believe that most if not all LGBTQ didn't know what their sexual preference was prior to joining the military.
When I was a BM3, many moons ago, we had a GM3 who slept in the bunk under mine on the ship and was "outed" by another guy he propositioned. I ran into him a few years later in a bar with his partner who was still on AD. They both told me they knew they were gay when they joined the Navy, that all the gay people they knew in the military also knew they were gay when they joined. According to them, gay males picked the Navy because they liked the idea of being on a ship with nothing but other men. (This was the late eighties, before gender integration occurred.)
Maybe some gender dysphoriacs didn't have gender dysphoria prior to joining, maybe. But once they knew , they were honor bound to report themselves, and yet didn't. Why is that ok? Why are they a protected class that is allowed to lie?
Should they be treated as human beings and offered help with their disorder? Absolutely! Should mistreatment of them be punished? Yes! Should the government be on the hook to pay for an elective surgical procedure that will greatly increase their committing suicide and not do a thing to treat their disorder? How is that answer not self evident? Our profession, at it's core, is the protection of the nation and it's people. By not treating gender dysphoria as what it is , a mental condition, we are complicit in not preventing the very thing that is a plague upon the entire military profession regardless of sexual preference: suicide. We are encouraging our already mentally compromised brothers and sisters to further compromise themselves for the sake of political correctness.
It's madness. But all of this is a moot point anyway, isn't it? "That ship has sailed" I suppose you could say.

http://www.vocativ.com/culture/lgbt/transgender-suicide/

http://www.sexchangeregret.com/research/suicide-study

Capt Jeff S. - Thank you for writing. I read your story with total respect. I too had a cousin who died of AIDS and yes he was gay. I'm truly sorry for all your losses. I know very well of "some" of their life style in which I think you were trying to rely here? I'm not sure totally of why this was directed to me....but I think is because I support and OR because I understand transgender folks? I studied the medical end of it very heavily as I do have a medical background. I also have worked side by side with a few and have been just in awe of them and how professional and how "they" (which I don't even like saying) are just like you and me for God's sake! I was raised Catholic and I am not worried at all how I will be greeted at the Gates! Those who treat and say un-kind words about anyone are the ones who should worry.....I just treat other's with respect and care and kindness no matter what their race, gender or whatever issues is going on with them. And yes, I DO believe that transgender is a brain issue and not a mental one. And it's been proven now. And the Military is now allowing them in. So people, get over it and move on and focus on your own issues. If your that ensure with trans. folks that tells me your having issues within yourself. (Not directed to you Sir...), but those who keep trashing others just makes me wonder that's all. P.S., If you wrote this to me in thinking that I'm gay as well...I'm not. Not that it's anyone's business nor that it's any big deal, but I didn't know if that's why you wrote or your just again writing cause I'm defending the transgender? Have a good one Sir.

I think you're putting the cart in front of the horse. We agree that the brains are different. We disagree as to why. I think that the human brain is plastic and affected by one's experiences. Did you know that you can examine the brain of a dead person and you should be able to spot the brain of a musician just by looking at the exterior folds? There is an extra fold on a specific part of their brain that can develop in less than two years when one begins playing musical instruments. A researcher examining Einstein's brain to figure out what gave him his high IQ discovered that his parietal lobes were larger (if memory serves correct Einsteins was about 20% larger than normal), compared to the rest of his brain). This is the part of the brain that does spatial analysis and complex mathematical computations. Also, the researcher noticed that Einstein's brain had an extra fold on the back of the right frontal lobe that is developed when one plays stringed instruments. It is the part of the motor cortex that controls finger movement of the left hand. If a person is left handed and plays a left-handed instrument (like Jimi Hendrix), it would develop on the back of the left frontal lobe. Piano players likewise develop these folds on both frontal lobes. The researcher analyzing his brain was not aware that Einstein played music, but did some additional investigation and discovered that Einstein played the violin. And oft times when he would get stuck on a physics problem he would play the violin and the answer would come to him.

Einstein's brain was not exceptionally large... in fact it was smaller than average, BUT it had more folds and thus more surface area of grey matter, which does processing, was exposed. In addition, the amount of white matter, which connects the parts of the brain containing grey matter to each other allowing, is perhaps just as important to IQ because it allows for more communication at higher rates of communications between them. I saw this on a Youtube video about the human brain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxPWAw9nemU

Just as with music, where the brain undergoes physical changes as it is programmed, I believe that the traumas and sexual experiences (abuse, for example) one has in their childhood can also program their brains and alter them physically. I don't think we are born programmed to be gay and that the physical differences in the brains of gay and transgender are a result of their life experience and not a result of a so-called gay gene, which I understand was scientifically debunked. You have to understand that those commissioning studies have an interest in the outcome of the studies, which thus influences the findings... For years cigarette companies commissioned studies that showed no link between smoking and lung cancer. Go figure!

Paste this link into your browser for a study on brain plasticity:
http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.neuron.2012.10.011

Capt Jeff S. - There is SO much to disagree with there. I don't even know where to begin.
Your ideals of what is moral, normal and right are just... wayyyyy out there.

All of your AIDS and affliction stories.... I've known MANY LGBTQ+ througout my life. One I knew as a teenager had gotten AIDS during the height of the problem in the 80's (from a blood transfusion) and died in the 90's. Other than that, I've met more straight people who've died from it than anything else. I guess everyone you knew who'd gotten it was because god gave it to them for having sex. Wow. I guess a guy who built the ENTIRE universe really cares about who some guy touched with his penis enough to afflict him with a horrible disease. (Come to think of it, that sounds pretty petty)
I can go bible verse by bible verse with you as for why there is no actual prohibition against homosexuality. FYI: the Bibles were intentionally edited to rephrase Pedastry (having a child sex buddy) and having sex with pagan temple slaves to "homosexual starting in the 1930's because a large group of American Christians did not like homosexuality. They pushed this quietly until enough momentum got around and later with funding pushed to have Bibles translated worldwide to read the same. You'd have to go back to the 1920's to find english translations that don't have that or back to the original Aramaic in the Old Testament and Greek for the New Testament.
IDK, Maybe do some actual research on culture and language.
I recommend you start checking out Religion For Breakfast, which is by a religious studies professor on YouTube. He is a pure academic and not for aor against any religion.
Of course most Christians ignore the part about Loving Thy Neighbor, but... why spoil a good scapegoat for everything going wrong? Right? C'mon.

Let me point out a primary reason that LGBTQ+ folks have psychological issues because, starting as a child they constantly hear something is wrong, so they think something is wrong with them, or they have religious guilt thinking some mythical being is going to judge them.

If you've come to your gay friends with the same level of judgement that you've come here with, you've probably been a part of their emotional decline in some manner. And if that is the case, you may have to consider that you bear some of the responsibility for it.

To SFC Tison, those inmates with both sexual organs as you stated, are called "intersex" they were born with both XX and or XY and or whatever...To much to explain trust me. But they can have some but not both sex organs...I'm some what an expert in this field. So trust me on this. Transgender has nothing to do with wanting sex and or wanting to "act" like the other sex either. It's simply that they were born in the wrong body. Brain is correct of that person's male and or female wishes. I am aware of what goes on in the PS and you are talking about hormone therapy. That is not a big issue at all. Well, at least for the female to male's. They do need their testosterone shot's and or jell every week and or 2 weeks JUST like any other Soldier needs their med.'s!!! Hey, fair is fair. I happen to know A LOT of male soldiers on "T"!!!! So I'm just educating a tad here.

Mr. B. - I couldn't agree more.

Let's concentrate on "Can they actually do the job?" rather than "What do they take out of their pants and with whom?"

What people seem to forget was that there was no ban on homosexuals serving in the US military until the late 1940s or early 1950s. (There was a ban on "unnatural sexual activity" - there still is - and if that ban were enforced vigorously and literally the US military would probably lose around 75% of its members.)

SPC Samuel Wheeler

FYI a CWO-5 starts at $7118 per month while an O-6 starts at $6125 per month.

Generally speaking O-6s and O-7s listen VERY carefully when a CWO-5 speaks.

I got out in 1979 and /warrant Officer Grades went only to CW-04. Are you telling me there is a CW-05 Grade now?

Thanks 1LT L S, but I'm afraid you missed some of my posts. Diplomacy isn't my strong suite, so I just stick to telling it like it is, and am content that history will judge whether I was right or wrong. Knock on wood, so far have been doing pretty well.

There will always be condescending folks that know it all... that don't listen to facts or reason and I really don't let what they say and do bother me much. They're closed books and no amount of debate is going to convince them of anything. Of course, they accuse me of the same, but then again, that's a tactic that is much overused by those of the Liberal persuasion. They love to point fingers at everyone else and forget that there's three pointing back at them.

In as much as there are many interesting folks on RP that serve as examples to follow; there are many others that best serve as examples to avoid. I try to learn from both. Try to learn from the mistakes of others so as to avoid the pitfalls they bring on themselves, and when you make mistakes, do your best to learn from them so as not to repeat them.

I strive to do my best to weigh facts and evidence and vet the so-called facts and evidence others produce. We all have egos, and I'm a former Marine so no surprise there, I have one too! BUT with that said, I earnestly try not to let mine cloud my judgment. If someone can lay out the facts and prove their case, I'll be quick to adopt their position as if it were my own. When folks start making up facts and nasty personal comments about you, there's no need to reciprocate -- because THAT! is the sign that they've just fired their FPF; they have run out of reasonable argument and that's all they have left to stand on.

1LT L S, I can't speak to what the Army teaches its LT's, but the USMC exposes its LT's to combined arms training while at The Basic School. The real exposure happens when you get out to the Fleet Marine Force. We didn't get to fire artillery but we learn Call For Fire both air and arty. MOS's are assigned based on performance at The Basic School. Even if you end up being an Admin officer, you have to know how to be an Infantry officer or you won't advance.

A German Arty Officer once told me that you had found your range when half your rounds were falling on their side and half on yours. ; )~ Of course, he was joking but buried in good humor is a shred of truth that bites you.

Just say no !

Well, one thing that did work out just fine...Women did join the military and "they" worked out just fine...and so did "race" as I was reading your post there GySgt. So things do change and I see why not transgender folks? As long as they are willing and able to serve their Country with pride and strength just like everyone else (cause they are like everyone else!)...then have at it!! Life's to short and I'm not going to play games and not stand in the way of someones life's dream(s)....

GySgt Austin Belanger We will be happy when everyone has equal opportunity. All the groups that have attained equal opportunity have been there all along, we've always had transgendered people, we've just preferred to look away and/or send them away so we could pretend they didn't really exist. I don't know how many more groups of people have limited opportunity in our society because they were born different, not because they can't do a job. I can't think of any at tho moment, however it Monday morning and I haven't had a full cup of coffee yet.

Thank you 1LT! And your right, if one does not like what they see...then change it. And do so as professionally as possible. Sometimes change scares people and if they don't understand something that also brings on a lot of fear as well.

Sgt. Efaw, just to let you know or for you to think about....Bio-man and women take testosterone and estrogen in the Military and that's paid for by the Military/tax money....So are you going to tell the transgender folks who are now allowed to serve that they can't get their allowed med.(s)??? Just asking.....