Transgender Service Members: Serving in Silence

They would be separated, and they are being separated on a regular basis. DADT and DOMA cover sexual orientation, not gender identity. So stellar airmen, sailors, Marines and soldiers are getting kicked out regularly due to discriminatory 40 year old medical regulations that forbid transgender people from serving.

I can understand gender identity could create a challenge enforcing restrictions or gender prerequisites. For example, would a transgender female have a physical advantage taking a PT test at the female level or would be a trans male allow to enter specialized occupations youd otherwise be disqualified. It leaves the door open with a lot of questions. If we can conclude, there's no added advantage. we should tear down the walls

have Any of you seen "Few Good Men" the Marines were thrown out for WHAT REASON...this is the time line that I served...HONESTY - INTEGRITY is of the UTMOST Importance...You contend that these stellar airmen, sailors, Marines and soldiers who are LGBT - they've Lied from the Get go...there's nothing Stellar about that...ALSO...Please share your definition of stellar? Our country of inclusion has brought us to the depths of Hell in the spirit of political correctness. GOD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL!!!

Well Sir, you may be correct. Though I find more to his credit than against it. Being that he is speaking against something that the LGBT community is on the other side of it would be foolish to assume that he would receive no public/political backlash.
Though here's a point that doesn't come from the aforementioned crackpot: Gender is determined by chromosomes being XX or XY, can surgery change that? Now this doesn't change how a person feels about themselves or how resilient they are, and THAT is the key to transgenderism that I feel the military should be concerned with.

SFC (Verify To See), Eglin AFB, FL - When you find an "unbiased" media source which is sponsored by an organization dedicated to "expose and neutralize the propaganda arm of the __[fill in the blank]__" you can be pretty sure that it is a propaganda arm of the "__[fill in the blank]__".

SFC Wesel - Gender is created by chromosomes that do not always line up exactly every time. Science and psycho-therapists, along with a great number of medical professionals actively treat transgendered people. Suicide comes from inner conflict that is difficult to resolve and lack of family and/or other support. When a 14 or 15 year old is thrown out by their non-accepting family they often resort to plying the streets, where they are abused beaten, and sometimes killed - and sometimes their only way out is suicide. And, since they are underage, their johns are pedophiles How many veterans commit suicide every day? Does the number of suicides the VA made up using only statistics from 22 states, or is the higher numbers determined by others who know how to look for the numbers?

I could be wrong on this one, but it's my impression that the only remaining "psychiatric" classification regarding homosexuality/transgenderism deals with UNRESOLVED conflicts and that one the person has come to accept their own sexuality then there is no longer considered to be a "psychiatric" problem.

Things like "rejection by others" are NOT an INTERNAL problem for the homosexual/transgendered person - they are sociological issues on the part of the rest of society.

David Lam, one of the Lieutenant Governors of the province of British Columbia once said "I dislike 'tolerance'. When you 'tolerate' someone that is the same as saying 'You stink, but I'm too polite to tell you so.'. If you can't make it all the way to ACCEPTANCE then be honest and tell me so. I can deal with it - even if you can't.".

LCpl James Robertson -

[1] So your answer to my first question is "I am the one who gets to interpret what the Word of God means and enforce that interpretation on everyone else.". Strangely enough the position of ISIS is "I am the one who gets to interpret what the Word of God means and enforce that interpretation on everyone else.". You are entitled to your own beliefs but you are neither entitled to your own facts nor are you entitled to enforce your beliefs on others. Remember the reputed words of St. Francis of Assisi "Preach the gospel, and if necessary, use words.".

[2] You say "I don't have a brand of particular worship." - and there you are wrong. EVERYONE has a "brand of particular worship" and that is because "God" made us that way. I fully intend to stand before "God" and defend my own behaviours on the basis of "Who is at fault, the clay or the sculptor?". Now I will agree that (from your point of view) to "be in Christ you must Believe in the Father and Son.". However I'm not quite so sure that that means the same thing as "being one with God" since I don't really think that any reasonably efficient "God" would create a universe where less than one third of the people (that we know of) come even remotely close to qualifying for potential "salvation".

Thank you for your wish that "God" blesses me. Whether "God" does that is really between me and "God" and, since I don't believe that "God" shoots craps with loaded dice, I'll just play the game according to the rules "God" tells me to play it by.

Col. Ted Mc, No one enforces the Word of God on anyone, each person has there own free to accept Christ or not. We don't force any belief on anyone, when I were raised up as a child, I were raised in a Christian family, to know the Lord as it were taught from the Word of God, for as for the form of Worship "we worship God in Spirit and Truth." To give you a Blessing from God is not crap, what kind of denomination or Church that you belong to that will not accept Blessings, would you rather that I cursed you. And there is no game being played in Christianity there's no place for foolishness. You sounds like a Catholic talking to a Protestant, the two belief's are separate. That's why in the history of Catholism, the Protestant had to separate from Catholic's, because of your idol belief's, we do not believe in pagan gods, we believe the Father and the Son. There are many ways to Christ but not through pagan gods. Keep to your way of worship and I'll keep to mine with Father God.

LCpl James Robertson - You say "No one enforces the Word of God on anyone" and you might want to try telling that to the Catholics and Protestants who had quite a good time looting and pillaging "In The Name Of God" trying to "enforce the Word of God" on each other as well as on anyone who wasn't a "Christian".

You also say "... to know the Lord as it were taught from the Word of God ..." which I can accept as soon as you tell me which of the three conflicting versions of "Creation" set out in Genesis is the correct one.

You further say "To give you a Blessing from God is not crap, what kind of denomination or Church that you belong to that will not accept Blessings, would you rather that I cursed you.". Firstly I never said it was "crap" in fact I thanked you for the thought. Secondly, whether you "curse me" or "bless me" is of equal effect and no more impacts the relationship which I have with "God" than whether you sneeze or hiccup.

Then you go on to say "You sounds like a Catholic talking to a Protestant, the two belief's are separate.". Actually the two BELIEFS are NOT separate. The schism between the Catholic branch of Christianity and the Protestant branch of Christianity (PLEASE NOTE - the root of "Protestant" is the word "protest") was, at its root, the view of some people that the administration of the Roman Catholic Church (a very large, powerful, wealthy, and profit making organization) had become corrupt, venal, and dishonest theologically so that it was placing being large, powerful, wealthy and profit making before "Spreading the Gospel". To counter this large, powerful, wealthy, and profit making organization, the Protestants set up their own organizations which, in time, became large, powerful, wealthy, profit making organizations as well.

Not surprisingly, in all this scramble by "The Church Incorporated" to ensure that it was "Our Guys" who got all the worldly benefits accruing from running large, powerful, wealthy, profit making organizations the essential teachings of the Gospels got forgotten. [Lest I be accused of prejudiced, the same {with minor variations} can be said about Judaism, Islam, and every other major religious organization that ever existed. At least "The Church of Scientology" doesn't make any bones about the fact that it is in business to make money.]

PS - Are you aware that "the Jewish God", "the Christian God", and "the Muslim God" are all the same "God"? Are you aware that almost all of the other religions in existence today - yes even the polytheistic ones - will also tell you that "Their God" and "Our God" are the same "God"?

I have absolutely no objection to you "seeking salvation" in your own manner. Nor do I object to you telling me what your own manner is. Nor do I object to you telling me that IN YOUR OPINION my way of "seeking salvation" is wrong. Where I do get upset is when someone tells me that they have the sole and exclusive effective means of "seeking salvation" and does so on the basis that since they have the sole and effective means of "seeking salvation" then they must have the sole and effective means of "seeking salvation" since they told me that they have the sole and effective means of "seeking salvation" and they know that this is true because they have the sole and effective means of "seeking salvation".

Son, that dog just plain old don't hunt.

Col. Ted Mc, If I got your denominational wrong by assuming that you were a Catholic forgive me for trespassing against you, you never told me what denomination you were. Your history on the two denominations is correct to a point. But do you let corrupt organizations keep you from serving the Lord. Denomination of Churches are attended by the denomination that appeal to you the most. What type of Church are you looking for, are presently attending. God see the inward part of man, that's what's in your heart. Don't let corrupt Churches are anything else keep you from serving God. With all the other denominations that's listed, if Jesus is not in it you better run fast and quickly, because, you cannot come to God without Jesus Christ, it has to be the Father and the Son. And you should know that all denominations, does not worship the true living God, name one denomination and I can tell you whether its a pagan god church, or the one's that worship adols, let me ask you a question did Jesus Christ come in the flesh.

You have some good points, but the mental health issue, while related, is not the root cause. It is problematic when there is no successful resolution of the gender dilemma. The desperation of many transgenders because of dysfunctional family life, and the complexities of trying to understand who you are make for some very difficult personal times. As in any other slice of people, there will be those who successfully negotiate the resolution and there are those who will not.
Your point regarding acceptance by others in a unit is well founded. I am very supportive of transgenders and gays, but my tolerance is not the same as having to rely on anyone who does not have their stuff together when going out on a patrol regardless of gender. On one hand, if a transgendered person is competent then they are a good addition to the team. If not, then no dice. Performance, period. But it is not easy to enforce or accept unless and until one becomes familiar with the person - not just the gender.

SGT Patrick McCullough, you stated: "First women get treated above and beyond rank and file and if a joe makes a funny face if they fart, UCMJ is threatened. Now you want to bring to the table transgenders and special treatment? Where does it end? Why should front line troops be subjected to special circumstance soldiers, sailors, marines or airmen? This is PC agenda overreaching plausible boundaries. Like I said, serving in the open as a transgender whatever will and should draw scrutiny. I am not advocating harassment, but mental health is the crux of this and should be."

I feel your comments are one thing that makes it hard for women, gay, and transgender to 'cope'. Many have stated on this thread that if they meet the standards, why should it matter? On the other hand, people have pointed to mental health stats indicating higher rates of suicide and depression. If people don't feel valued for volunteering to sacrifice themselves for our country, what value can they hold onto when the brunt of society alienates these groups for failure to adhere to a good-ole-boy social norm or the male-dominate military service?

What I'm trying to communicate to the readership is this: our actions and words, every day, create an environment that supports or condemns the brothers and sisters serving next to us. We should not tolerate those actions and words of others that belittle the same sacrifice we ourselves make. We should be accepting of our willingness to sacrifice for our country and the competence to carry through, not our sexual orientation.

My comments are a feeling that is elaborated into words on behalf of those who would rather shun everything different and associated with the counter culture of straight joe life. While you're sentiment is noble, your understanding of the warrior culture is sub par. Willingness to sacrifice is not a preemptive inclusive plan to front line warriors. It is a noble thought process, but not a noble sacrifice. Feelings that get in the way of patriotic chauvinism are feelings that have no place in a warrior culture or war zone. I care not of sexual orientation, my wife's gay cousin married us. I am not religious at all anymore, I am spiritual, while identifying with the christian culture I was raised, I am not a christian. If blood is spilled it's a different story, sacrifice is just that it doesn't need to be hollered from the mountain tops. "Good intentions pave the way to hell", if transgenders want to be treated as equals they need to jump through hoops to prove their worth. Meritocracy rules in the US military, next to blue bloods it is still recognized by those who can see past the bridge of their nose. Carry on and give us a reason to respect you. I'm done and out.

SGT Patrick McCullough - You say " What can be proven is high instances of destructive behavior and mental health disorders in the transgender community, pre op, post op, before meds, after meds." and I'm quite prepared to accept that as a starting position.

Now, would that "high level" be lower than, the same as, or higher than the level found in any group of despised and rejected people who have to hide an essential part of their identity in order to live a "normal" life?

Gender identity does not matter in the military period.  Worrying about such an idea has no place here.  The only thing you should ask is can the person next to me do what they are here to do.  Judge that person based on performance, nothing else.

but when you said you will not respect anyone who disrespects you, i guess its easy to say and do that behind a computer screen, its a little different in garrison, why even bother to drag out the drama? Respect the rank and drive on, just my opinion

i agree with SSgt Nicole Biscoe while everyones opinion matters there is no room for derogatory or inflammatory personal remarks we all serve or served in the military to protect and preserve the freedoms we share as americans gender should not be an issue don't ask don't tell was repealed so should transgender people serving in the military now your personal prejudices should not be aired on this forum

I agree with GySgt Ashlee Woolard!! Very well said!!

Major, you say "We were 5 days from completely breaking Ho chi min had we not stopped the massive bombing campaign." and I am glad that you believe that. Unfortunately it simply isn't true. The Vietnamese had been fighting one foreign enemy after another for the past 400 years and weren't about to quit. The "massive bombing campaign" might well have induced the Vietnamese to change tactics, but it wasn't anywhere near close to ACTUALLY breaking them (regardless of what a senior Vietnamese military figure once said in order to make the American government/people feel even worse about not winning).

Where I am going with this is two-fold [1] "Historical myth intended to self-justify and self-glorify is seldom in accord with historical reality." and [2] "'ADHERENCE to the ESTABLISHED STANDARDS' at some point in time becomes about as useful as a debate over whether the "Maniple" or the "Tercio" is the best tacticle unit to use against machine guns.

LTJG (Join to see) What a sad story and indictment on our Navy the story of Petty Officer Landon Wilson paints. Promoted, given a (Flag) Letter of Commendation, and then (Honorably) discharged for being transgender, WOW!

Is it time for a policy change? If we have to leave a position in a combat zone unfilled for a reason this foolish then I have to say, Hell Yes!

PVT (Join to see) you may want to read and study the Vietnam War a little more or at least talk to a few people who were there (both sides) prior to buying into any argument that the Vietcong were ever close to a surrender let alone within 5 days, just because of a little inconvenient bombing. The North was made of much stronger stuff, Sir.

I would then ask you both, to instruct all those folks who teach history at our upper tier institutions. Those facts seem to stick...and yes...you are right...I wasn't in Vietnam...but I've been in war and battle long enough to make my own observations.
I also know very well the psychological effects bombing campaigns have on the populace...regardless of who the recipient is. And yes....I believe those historians and articles that point out that yes....we were that close to achieving victory in Vietnam.

Let's also remind ourselves the difference between apples to oranges... MCPO Gene Treants and Col Ted Mc...the question posed is about Transgender members serving and the impacts that it currently has and those that are created when we allow the system be administered by politically correct politicians in uniform...
Last time I checked...I am not a politician and neither are you.
So...let's stick to the main question.