Posted on Oct 22, 2014
Transgender Service Members: Serving in Silence
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Despite the 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010', transgender people are still banned from serving in the military. To this day, if it is discovered that any service man or woman identifies as a transgender, he or she would be separated from serving. Do you think this is fair? Should transgendered individuals be accepted for military service?
Policy
Transgender
LGBTQ+
Command Post
Edited 11 y ago
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 260
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Transgendered individuals who have a medical anomaly (whether corrected or not) should certainly be allowed to serve. We're currently prosecuting an adulterous colonel for having unprotected sex and not informing his partner of HIV positive status. I'll take ambiguous genitalia over HIV any day of the week. Babies born with intersex traits rate at about 1 in 1,500 births.
That being said...
A man born with normal male genitalia and hormone levels who gets up one day and decides it's time to live life as a woman...that guy is dealing with a level of internal conflict that is not appropriate for military service. I could not think of anything more disruptive than a male O-5 showing up out of the blue in a female service uniform wearing makeup and wanting to use the female latrine. There are 15,500 punk rockers serving in silence...it's adios to the pink mohawks and nipple rings...again because it is disruptive. Sometimes it doesn't get to be all about you.
That being said...
A man born with normal male genitalia and hormone levels who gets up one day and decides it's time to live life as a woman...that guy is dealing with a level of internal conflict that is not appropriate for military service. I could not think of anything more disruptive than a male O-5 showing up out of the blue in a female service uniform wearing makeup and wanting to use the female latrine. There are 15,500 punk rockers serving in silence...it's adios to the pink mohawks and nipple rings...again because it is disruptive. Sometimes it doesn't get to be all about you.
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LTJG (Join to see)
1LT, no truly transgender person "gets up one day and decides" anything. Being transgender is a lifelong knowledge that some people are born with, and that is out of their control. Also, the possible 15,500 currently serving transgender service members are not "punk rockers", they are the brothers and sisters in arms that you work with every day. Your best friend could be transgender, but because you give the impression that you are unaccepting, they have to hide it from you or fear your rejection. The vast majority of them just want to serve their country quietly and live in a body comfortable to them. Sure, there may be some wackos, but those exist in every demographic and in every facet of the military, and should be dealt with case-by-case, and not with a sweeping, discriminatory policy.
Transgender people do not want it to be all about them. If anything, they want the opposite, to be out of the spotlight so that they can live their lives and serve their country without discrimination.
Transgender people do not want it to be all about them. If anything, they want the opposite, to be out of the spotlight so that they can live their lives and serve their country without discrimination.
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1LT Keith Gannon
I'm not sure who qualifies as an authority on what makes a person "truly transgender." I think the punk rocker analogy fits. It is a lifestyle. It is an image considered radical by the majority of the population. Why would a punk rocker be any less of a brother or sister in arms? Wouldn't they rather serve while projecting an image more comfortable to themselves? Everyone would. There are plenty of people who would rather wear beards, enjoy their piercings, have a hair color they feel is more natural to their personality etc etc.
I think the big idea everyone is forgetting in this debate is that the military is a tool the government uses to enforce foreign policy. Image matters. How the force is perceived by foreigners is a major consideration. Your "street cred" matters when it comes to fighting wars. A major difference between a religious preference and sexual preference being protected is that those preferences are not conspicuously broadcasted to everyone else in the room by mere presence. The military is not a bastion of democracy providing jobs for everyone wanting to participate. If you can't understand why it would be detrimental to our foreign policy efforts to have a 6'4" 250lb colonel deploy one year as a male and the next year to the same multi-national joint operating environment as a female in a skirt, having to deal with the same local politicians and leaders on the prior deployment...then I would say you have limited upward mobility to look forward to in the officer ranks...along with any other organisation involved with implementing and enforcing foreign policy.
You possess some wonderful ideals, which rarely have any place in a military environment.
I think the big idea everyone is forgetting in this debate is that the military is a tool the government uses to enforce foreign policy. Image matters. How the force is perceived by foreigners is a major consideration. Your "street cred" matters when it comes to fighting wars. A major difference between a religious preference and sexual preference being protected is that those preferences are not conspicuously broadcasted to everyone else in the room by mere presence. The military is not a bastion of democracy providing jobs for everyone wanting to participate. If you can't understand why it would be detrimental to our foreign policy efforts to have a 6'4" 250lb colonel deploy one year as a male and the next year to the same multi-national joint operating environment as a female in a skirt, having to deal with the same local politicians and leaders on the prior deployment...then I would say you have limited upward mobility to look forward to in the officer ranks...along with any other organisation involved with implementing and enforcing foreign policy.
You possess some wonderful ideals, which rarely have any place in a military environment.
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LTJG (Join to see)
Being transgender isn't a lifestyle, and it isn't a flippant decision (oh, I'll be a woman one deployment and a man the next and so on). Being transgender is living every day of your life in a prison. Nobody would choose that. What man would choose to give up male privilege, open himself to discrimination and bigotry, and destroy most of his relationships just to wear a skirt (which women don't deploy in)? Being a punk rocker is not an identity. If you shave their head and take out their piercings, they still function just as well as before. A transgender person is at war with their own body constantly because their very identity is at odds with their body.
If this makes you think even more that trans people should not serve, then you should realize that they are already serving, and many of them are stellar service members. Imagine how much better they would be if they no longer had to worry about their internal conflict.
If this makes you think even more that trans people should not serve, then you should realize that they are already serving, and many of them are stellar service members. Imagine how much better they would be if they no longer had to worry about their internal conflict.
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Am I the only one who doesn't care if a transgender or even gay person wants to serve? What is the issue exactly?
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1LT William Clardy
SSG Tim Everett, they can bring it up all they want, but it won't go far if the alleged "victim" explicitly declines to identify the behavior as harassment.
And yes, I already have a track record for arguing in favor of people's right to be obnoxious and even wrongheaded. I'm not a big fan of thought crimes.
And yes, I already have a track record for arguing in favor of people's right to be obnoxious and even wrongheaded. I'm not a big fan of thought crimes.
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COL Ted Mc
"this is what the military calls sexual harassment these days" - and much of it is also what people used to call "flirting" (when both sides knew the rules of the game [and played by them]).
People (I was going to say "primarily male", but on second thought that wouldn't be accurate) appear to have lost the distinction between "object" and "objectIVE".
Fortunately I've reached the point (read as "age") where I can now flirt with women again because "everyone knows" I'm "harmless".
People (I was going to say "primarily male", but on second thought that wouldn't be accurate) appear to have lost the distinction between "object" and "objectIVE".
Fortunately I've reached the point (read as "age") where I can now flirt with women again because "everyone knows" I'm "harmless".
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1LT William Clardy
[Snort]
Um, yes, of course you're harmless, COL Ted Mc. Of course you're harmless. How could anybody think anything else?
Um, yes, of course you're harmless, COL Ted Mc. Of course you're harmless. How could anybody think anything else?
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I am older than many of you now. I have changed my frame of thinking over the years - there are many who choose to do something other than what I choose to do. I also learned there are many aspects of what we never had to think about that have been brought out in the open. What we are used to is what we are comfortable with. Mother nature does not always have perfect permutations of chromosomes. Is it up to me to judge people with different permutations? What if my children came out as gay or transgender? Do I ignore them and throw them out in the street where they have a great chance of doing everything I raised them not to do? Or do I undertake to understand my child and support them so they can be the person they want to be?
I know violence. I know bigotry. I know stupidity. I have partaken in all of these - now is the time for me to listen - to respond appropriately, not to react because of how I was raised. There are enough other issues in the world that need to be taken care of. Besides, I reacted when I went into the military because of those beliefs - and now I have to respond to the VA because they have failed to perform as required under the law - and because those denials have caused hundreds of thousands of premature deaths. My responses must be thoughtful, strategic, well-planned and well-executed. I reacted already being being angry for many years and got nowhere. So I listened, I learned, and now I respond.
Good luck to all, and that you all make the most of our holiday season this year.
I know violence. I know bigotry. I know stupidity. I have partaken in all of these - now is the time for me to listen - to respond appropriately, not to react because of how I was raised. There are enough other issues in the world that need to be taken care of. Besides, I reacted when I went into the military because of those beliefs - and now I have to respond to the VA because they have failed to perform as required under the law - and because those denials have caused hundreds of thousands of premature deaths. My responses must be thoughtful, strategic, well-planned and well-executed. I reacted already being being angry for many years and got nowhere. So I listened, I learned, and now I respond.
Good luck to all, and that you all make the most of our holiday season this year.
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SSgt Kevin Hopkins
craig i appreciate the honest open mind. i only wished others here were just as open minded. and to make it clear im a straight male who served in the USAF 20 years ago and i believe everyone regardless of our differences should be treated equally.
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If you can do the job without putting other's in danger then it doesn't matter what you have or don't have in your pants, and in turn it shouldn't matter if you want to change it.
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There are a number of issues brought up in the discussions here. A lot of great observations. One theme for a while is the mental stability, another is mixed up DNA. Mental stability is a separate area from the chemistry. The X's and Y's do not always come out clearly, and doctors can make decisions at birth that may ultimately not be congruent with the gender, If the transgender has developed into a well-balanced person, then mental stability is a non-issue. The issues come from unresolved pieces of life that create problematic behaviors and esteems. Like any other person, the issue then becomes whether they are or are not able to perform their jobs the same as anyone else. It has also been borne out by the law of the land with respect to equal opportunities and civil rights.
If your son or daughter were to come to you and tell you they are transgender, do you toss them out or try to understand them? They have no more control over that than someone who has a congenital problem. Different cultures throughout history have revered or given special status to transgendered people. Why regress?
If your son or daughter were to come to you and tell you they are transgender, do you toss them out or try to understand them? They have no more control over that than someone who has a congenital problem. Different cultures throughout history have revered or given special status to transgendered people. Why regress?
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I think Bradley Manning is the poster child for this issue. Here is a person so personally confused (his own words) about his identity that he willingly commits treason (even if you don't see it that way, that's the law and that's what he was convicted of.) That was also the best justification for "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." If what you do, or are, or want to be is SO important that it's more important than serving your country, then you don't need to be in the military. You need to be out there campaigning for your cause. You can consider that is serving your country, if you believe it is.
In other words, BE HONEST. The military is not your personal soap box for whatever you believe in. All of us who join the military do so in the clear understanding that we give up some of our rights. We agree to live in a more controlled, dictatorial society than those we defend. It isn't FAIR. It was never intended to be FAIR. If that bothers you, DON'T JOIN. If fair is what you want, you don't belong in the military. It's simple - if you can't follow the rules, go play somewhere else. You don't have the right to demand that we play by your rules just so you can feel included. That's what the country is for, not what the military is for.
I am in favor of having a separate unit, like the Spartans did, where everyone in it is transgender, transsexual, gay, lesbian, bi, or whatever. But I don't think those "serving in silence" think that's "fair". And that's my point. They can't be happy until the military is converted into their soapbox, which means they are using the military for their political view, instead of serving.
In other words, BE HONEST. The military is not your personal soap box for whatever you believe in. All of us who join the military do so in the clear understanding that we give up some of our rights. We agree to live in a more controlled, dictatorial society than those we defend. It isn't FAIR. It was never intended to be FAIR. If that bothers you, DON'T JOIN. If fair is what you want, you don't belong in the military. It's simple - if you can't follow the rules, go play somewhere else. You don't have the right to demand that we play by your rules just so you can feel included. That's what the country is for, not what the military is for.
I am in favor of having a separate unit, like the Spartans did, where everyone in it is transgender, transsexual, gay, lesbian, bi, or whatever. But I don't think those "serving in silence" think that's "fair". And that's my point. They can't be happy until the military is converted into their soapbox, which means they are using the military for their political view, instead of serving.
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SGM (Join to see)
MIDN Marberry, you aren't going to convince me and I'm not going to convince you. We both knew that from the beginning. I have no doubt that your way will eventually win, to the detriment of the service, but I expect to be long dead by then.
It's not even a question of how many "credible" sources you can cite, or how much research anyone does. The SIMPLE fact is that service in the military is acceptance of lesser rights than the people we protect. It needs to be this way, because you can't blow the whistle in combat and ask for a time out while you deal with someone's claim of harassment.
As much as you stand by yours, I stand by mine. If TGs really can serve in SILENCE, no problem. But I don't think they can, and your insistence is confirmation that identity is more important to them than service. Again, that's their choice, but it should be made outside of the military.
It's not even a question of how many "credible" sources you can cite, or how much research anyone does. The SIMPLE fact is that service in the military is acceptance of lesser rights than the people we protect. It needs to be this way, because you can't blow the whistle in combat and ask for a time out while you deal with someone's claim of harassment.
As much as you stand by yours, I stand by mine. If TGs really can serve in SILENCE, no problem. But I don't think they can, and your insistence is confirmation that identity is more important to them than service. Again, that's their choice, but it should be made outside of the military.
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Maj (Join to see)
SGM (Join to see), SMSgt Minister Gerald A. Thomas, serving in silence is never something we should expect. You cannot have a cohesive team without knowing details of the lives of your teammates.
Would you ask a teammate, whom you might rely on in battle, to never come to you with their problems?
Why should the military not accept the talent and skills of transgender individuals just because you're uncomfortable?
How is that prejudice any different from sexism or racism?
The point I want to drive home is that the lack of acceptance of people serving based not on their competencies, but on their orientation, gender, race, creed, etc., creates a hostile environment and drives our brothers and sisters into depression and dysfunction.
Would you ask a teammate, whom you might rely on in battle, to never come to you with their problems?
Why should the military not accept the talent and skills of transgender individuals just because you're uncomfortable?
How is that prejudice any different from sexism or racism?
The point I want to drive home is that the lack of acceptance of people serving based not on their competencies, but on their orientation, gender, race, creed, etc., creates a hostile environment and drives our brothers and sisters into depression and dysfunction.
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SGM (Join to see)
Capt Clinton Albaugh,
A problem which the person generates for themselves is not something I feel requires me to solve. I don't accept the premise that because I think (God, the universe, nature, someone) made a mistake and made me male, that (society, the Army, my fellow servicemembers, someone) has to solve it for me. Further I think that the stress of combat is enough, without having to deal with additional stress. This is perhaps the biggest reason I don't think TGs and others who bring a lot of stress with them don't belong in the military. And that's what Don't Ask Don't Tell is about - if you just CAN'T keep from telling, then your personal additional stress has to be added to the stress of combat. So if you are talking about the team, doesn't the team have the right to stay, "Leave your personal stress at home! We have enough already."
A problem which the person generates for themselves is not something I feel requires me to solve. I don't accept the premise that because I think (God, the universe, nature, someone) made a mistake and made me male, that (society, the Army, my fellow servicemembers, someone) has to solve it for me. Further I think that the stress of combat is enough, without having to deal with additional stress. This is perhaps the biggest reason I don't think TGs and others who bring a lot of stress with them don't belong in the military. And that's what Don't Ask Don't Tell is about - if you just CAN'T keep from telling, then your personal additional stress has to be added to the stress of combat. So if you are talking about the team, doesn't the team have the right to stay, "Leave your personal stress at home! We have enough already."
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PO1 Shahida Marmol
SGM (Join to see) - You said EVERYTHING I have been trying to articulate. Thank you!!!
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How many heterosexuals are serving in silence because anything they say is wrong?
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Cpl Sabrina L.
How many pedophiles & rapists serve in silence...there is a push to legalize pedophilia because as they say "it just another sexual orientation, they were born that way, kids like it, its good for them..." etc... the minority is the pedophiles...but the "numbers" have nothing to do with winning...pay attention to legislature...Pelosi & company already proved that laws can be passed BEFORE WE KNOW WHAT IS IN THEM... protect your children~
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CPT Jason Torpy
0. There may be homophobes and sexists and such others serving in silence because of their prejudices, but that's not really related to their sexual orientation.
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SGT (Join to see)
Well, if we are going to bring sexual activities into this versus gender identity, let's.
Let's throw the following folks out of the military:
Males who can't ejaculate. It is a dysfunction.
Females with dyspareunia. Sexual intercourse is painful and potentially chronic in nature.
Sadomasochists. They like to receive pain or inflict it.
People with sex-aversion disorder. Because everybody likes sex, right? Freaks.
Foot fetishists. Because in ASUs and heels, dinings-in can get pretty awkward.
Really?
Let's throw the following folks out of the military:
Males who can't ejaculate. It is a dysfunction.
Females with dyspareunia. Sexual intercourse is painful and potentially chronic in nature.
Sadomasochists. They like to receive pain or inflict it.
People with sex-aversion disorder. Because everybody likes sex, right? Freaks.
Foot fetishists. Because in ASUs and heels, dinings-in can get pretty awkward.
Really?
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SGT Mark Sullivan
The ADA is a bunch of fucking quacks if they really believe that being a Pedophile ranks up there with Schizophrenia and Paranoid Delusional, or being Manic. But, if they insist on this, then they should bring back electroshock therapy, and chemical castration for pedophiles, or even public castration for that matter. Or, better yet, put them in a locked room with the parents of the molested child. I have no sympathy for anyone who would be willing to harm a child in that manner. I do not see a Pedophile as someone who deserves the right to live.
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My view is this. Im an equal opportunist. If you are willing to serve and have something to offer, willing to do your job to the best of your ability, contribute, go in the line of fire knowing what can happen, take care of yourself and your peers, take pride in what you do and not be a distraction, then I dont care what race, color, creed, gender, religion, sexual preferance, marital preference, heterosexual or homosexual you have/are. I'll serve with you right by your side. There are plenty of people serving filled with hate and closed mindedness or dont do anything but collect a paycheck wasting space. The only thing I ask is not to push your views, religion ,prefereces etc. on those not interested. Thats where the disconnect, discomfort, and misguided hatred comes in.
Times are changing my friends. If we have to adjust fire, so ve it but the missions continue.
Just my 2 bits.
Times are changing my friends. If we have to adjust fire, so ve it but the missions continue.
Just my 2 bits.
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No, serving is not a right and regardless what this dimwit of a Potus said this is against good order and discipline. You are male or female not what you want to be and it will cause caose to have to accommodate them!
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TSgt Terry Hudson
Sir its not so much of what you said but how you said it. It comes off very unprofessional. You're Retired Veteran, some of us younger service members actually look up to you guys because some of our NCO's, SNCO's, and CO's aren't the prime example. So the way you said that really wasn't expected...at least not from someone who has a lot more wisdom and experience. The way you said it actually shocked me. Ma'am I'm sure PO1 would've replied in a nicer way if you responded in a nicer way. You could've possibly given him the perspective that you're an A**hole, which I'm sure you're not. =)
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SSgt Nicole Biscoe
Very well said SrA Hudson :) And yeah, I didn't mean to come off poorly either and apologize if it was taken that way :)
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PO1 Jackson Plant
SrA Hudson, thank you, I did not consider people would really listen to what I said. I will definitely pay more attention and I appreciate the well thought out response. I apologize if I offended you. And SSgt Biscoe I suggest we start over again. Mulligan?
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