Posted on Apr 8, 2015
Veterans: Have you joined the American Legion or VFW? Why or why not?
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As I wrote this, responses to that question were arriving every minute from the "Vietnam Veterans Only" group on Facebook. It seems my question hit a nerve. Take a look at a random sampling of the responses in the image...
Can you imagine my surprise?
I was fortunate that, when I completed my tour of duty in Vietnam, I was assigned to a post in Hawaii where there was little hostility between the military and civilian communities. Thus, I was spared the abuses that many Vietnam Veterans experienced on their return to CONUS (the Continental United States). I am appalled to learn that my comrades could not find sanctuary even among other veterans. It seems “The Greatest Generation” wasn't as great as I once believed.
On Veterans Day and Memorial Day over the years, as we passed Veterans soliciting donations in exchange for a “Buddy Poppy”, my wife would ask me, “Why don't you join?” I merely shrugged and replied, “Those organizations are for 'real' soldiers. They don't want any REMFs hanging around.”
REMFs are Rear Echelon Mother F*****s, the ones who served “in the rear with the gear”. To be more precise, they were the commanders who sent troops in harm’s way, often disastrously, without exposing themselves to danger. So no, I wasn't one of those and, in truth, there weren't many “rear areas” in Vietnam. Base camps, such as the one to which I was assigned, were located all over the countryside and every perimeter was a front line. Also, in addition to administrative duties, I was a platoon leader for the base camp security force inasmuch as I was a trained infantry officer. Thus, my real reason for not joining, I suppose, was that I never felt the need.
Things changed as news broke about the scandals within the Veterans Administration. As we learned of Veterans dying while languishing on secret waiting lists and other systemic failures, I decided that I had to do something. We were taught as Soldiers to take care of one another on the battlefield. How could we do any less in these circumstances?
I joined both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and attended a couple meetings for both. The VFW post in my community seemed better organized, and I began focusing my attentions there; however, I intend on devoting more time to the American Legion once I'm settled into the VFW.
We visit patients at the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach and the Navy Hospital near Camp Pendleton to cater events for them, sponsor student competitions and award prizes for scholarship, sanction Boy Scout units, and provide honor guards for Veterans' burials as well as community events. One of our most valuable services is helping Veterans apply for VA benefits and shepherding them through the red tape jungle. Like all other VFW posts, we contribute to our national organization and the homes they maintain for widows and orphans of Veterans who have fought in foreign wars.
I'm sure the activities vary from one post to another, but there hasn't been any drinking or smoking at mine (yet).
To be honest, there are a few WWII and Korean Veterans still hanging on, but Vietnam Veterans seem to predominate, at least among those who attend meetings. I'm especially happy to see younger veterans fresh from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq joining. Hopefully, we can help them network for education and job opportunities as they transition to civilian life. I certainly won't be displaying the behavior Vietnam Veterans experienced when they attempted to join, and I won't permit it to go unchallenged if others try.
Can you imagine my surprise?
I was fortunate that, when I completed my tour of duty in Vietnam, I was assigned to a post in Hawaii where there was little hostility between the military and civilian communities. Thus, I was spared the abuses that many Vietnam Veterans experienced on their return to CONUS (the Continental United States). I am appalled to learn that my comrades could not find sanctuary even among other veterans. It seems “The Greatest Generation” wasn't as great as I once believed.
On Veterans Day and Memorial Day over the years, as we passed Veterans soliciting donations in exchange for a “Buddy Poppy”, my wife would ask me, “Why don't you join?” I merely shrugged and replied, “Those organizations are for 'real' soldiers. They don't want any REMFs hanging around.”
REMFs are Rear Echelon Mother F*****s, the ones who served “in the rear with the gear”. To be more precise, they were the commanders who sent troops in harm’s way, often disastrously, without exposing themselves to danger. So no, I wasn't one of those and, in truth, there weren't many “rear areas” in Vietnam. Base camps, such as the one to which I was assigned, were located all over the countryside and every perimeter was a front line. Also, in addition to administrative duties, I was a platoon leader for the base camp security force inasmuch as I was a trained infantry officer. Thus, my real reason for not joining, I suppose, was that I never felt the need.
Things changed as news broke about the scandals within the Veterans Administration. As we learned of Veterans dying while languishing on secret waiting lists and other systemic failures, I decided that I had to do something. We were taught as Soldiers to take care of one another on the battlefield. How could we do any less in these circumstances?
I joined both the American Legion and the Veterans of Foreign Wars and attended a couple meetings for both. The VFW post in my community seemed better organized, and I began focusing my attentions there; however, I intend on devoting more time to the American Legion once I'm settled into the VFW.
We visit patients at the Veterans Hospital in Long Beach and the Navy Hospital near Camp Pendleton to cater events for them, sponsor student competitions and award prizes for scholarship, sanction Boy Scout units, and provide honor guards for Veterans' burials as well as community events. One of our most valuable services is helping Veterans apply for VA benefits and shepherding them through the red tape jungle. Like all other VFW posts, we contribute to our national organization and the homes they maintain for widows and orphans of Veterans who have fought in foreign wars.
I'm sure the activities vary from one post to another, but there hasn't been any drinking or smoking at mine (yet).
To be honest, there are a few WWII and Korean Veterans still hanging on, but Vietnam Veterans seem to predominate, at least among those who attend meetings. I'm especially happy to see younger veterans fresh from the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq joining. Hopefully, we can help them network for education and job opportunities as they transition to civilian life. I certainly won't be displaying the behavior Vietnam Veterans experienced when they attempted to join, and I won't permit it to go unchallenged if others try.
Posted in these groups: 
The American Legion
Camaraderie
Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW)
Command Post
Millennials
The American Legion Camaraderie Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW) Command Post Millennials
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 202
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SPC Allison Joy Cumming
Please do so. The only way any nationally chartered veteran service organizations maintain their influence in Congress is with the strength of our membership.
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PO3 Nichalas Enser
PUFL American Legion and Lifetime of the VFW - even though not affiliated with a local post, as of yet. Have to check them out, soon, and decide on a 'good' one.
As SPC Allison Joy Cumming says, SPC Richard White , it is worth the price of admission, for the good that both do for our (active duty and retired/separated) service member family! The community outreach and youth programs are great, as well, but those depend upon folks getting out there and helping their local Posts.
As SPC Allison Joy Cumming says, SPC Richard White , it is worth the price of admission, for the good that both do for our (active duty and retired/separated) service member family! The community outreach and youth programs are great, as well, but those depend upon folks getting out there and helping their local Posts.
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I am a member of the DAV and PVA. I am also in the American Veterans MC. As an MC, we go to Veteran Retirement Homes and help out as we can, ie: Donations, mowing the lawns, bringing them necessities, ect, and just go have a good time with them, I do believe that they enjoy us spending time with them more than anything, letting them know they are NOT forgotten and we DO appreciate their sacrifice to our Great Country.
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I personally put off joining because of memories of my father and uncles always going to the post to drink and swap stories. They never introduced me to the other programs that the AL or VFW had to offer. I first joined the Legion for selfish purposes, proof of being a veteran to get a discount, and was invited to a meeting where I found what really happens. I am now a life member of both and see many good works being done by both groups and am lucky to have good posts in my area although I know that is not always true for other areas.
I recommend you meet the members and check out what programs they are involved in to decide if the local post meets your needs but don't stop there if the local post does not meet your needs, look around the area and I am sure you will find a compatible group and be able to do something positive for both veteran's and the general community you live in.
I recommend you meet the members and check out what programs they are involved in to decide if the local post meets your needs but don't stop there if the local post does not meet your needs, look around the area and I am sure you will find a compatible group and be able to do something positive for both veteran's and the general community you live in.
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MAJ Morris McGaugh
I belong to both the VFW and the American Legion. When it comes to standing up for vet's benefits and rights numbers (membership) are very important. And I belong to the American Legion Riders.
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Before you read, understand that I know many places are different, and this is only my account, like one of many...
I'm a member of both the VFW (Life) and the AL (Annual)... In the VFW, I've been Jr Vice Commander twice and Sr Vice Commander once... After my stint as Sr Vice, I finally had to back out of it due to the politics, race relations, sexual discrimination, and this list can go on... No... they weren't Major, but even minor incidence's can be just as damaging... Ans no, I didn't just sit on my a$$, I actually got heavily involved with the local VFW for approximately 5 plus years, but unfortunately, some of the stigma indicated in the FB Post you have above (and many others, they all read the same way) are partially(?) true... I think it is mostly due to the fact that for a long time, these organizations were run by Vietnam, Korean, etc. Veterans and by the time the Gulf War hit and began producing a new generation of Veterans, there was a huge "gap of the wars" and those "Good Ol Boys" weren't sure how to take us... There are a lot of older Vets in these organizations that are concerned, and have that "they are going to try and take over the last thing we have" attitudes... You know, the "Key Masters"... One of my many projects as Jr and Sr Vice, besides trying to get younger Vets into the V, was also trying to get our female Vets involved more with our local organization... This proved to be difficult as a lot of our old timers couldn't accept the fact that "Yes, we have many female Combat Veterans now, and yes, we will refer to them as "Comrade"..." And when they started to show up, were given answers like "Oh, you need to speak with the Ladies Auxiliary..." (I remember having to restrain a female SFC a few years back... she refused to join after that). This was one of many things I faced as the "youngest kid on the block"... Needless to say, one can only pound their head against the wall for so long, and though the Post Members thought I was a great Officer, I decided to remove myself from the politics, as I seemed to be making more enemies than friends of the Post Officers... I will admit, when I look back on it now, maybe I removed myself a little too quickly, as I'm amazed that quite a few of my changes instituted are still in place, and I'm still asked opinionated questions by a few of the current Post Officers... Hmmm... Maybe there's hope for them yet... :)
I'm a member of both the VFW (Life) and the AL (Annual)... In the VFW, I've been Jr Vice Commander twice and Sr Vice Commander once... After my stint as Sr Vice, I finally had to back out of it due to the politics, race relations, sexual discrimination, and this list can go on... No... they weren't Major, but even minor incidence's can be just as damaging... Ans no, I didn't just sit on my a$$, I actually got heavily involved with the local VFW for approximately 5 plus years, but unfortunately, some of the stigma indicated in the FB Post you have above (and many others, they all read the same way) are partially(?) true... I think it is mostly due to the fact that for a long time, these organizations were run by Vietnam, Korean, etc. Veterans and by the time the Gulf War hit and began producing a new generation of Veterans, there was a huge "gap of the wars" and those "Good Ol Boys" weren't sure how to take us... There are a lot of older Vets in these organizations that are concerned, and have that "they are going to try and take over the last thing we have" attitudes... You know, the "Key Masters"... One of my many projects as Jr and Sr Vice, besides trying to get younger Vets into the V, was also trying to get our female Vets involved more with our local organization... This proved to be difficult as a lot of our old timers couldn't accept the fact that "Yes, we have many female Combat Veterans now, and yes, we will refer to them as "Comrade"..." And when they started to show up, were given answers like "Oh, you need to speak with the Ladies Auxiliary..." (I remember having to restrain a female SFC a few years back... she refused to join after that). This was one of many things I faced as the "youngest kid on the block"... Needless to say, one can only pound their head against the wall for so long, and though the Post Members thought I was a great Officer, I decided to remove myself from the politics, as I seemed to be making more enemies than friends of the Post Officers... I will admit, when I look back on it now, maybe I removed myself a little too quickly, as I'm amazed that quite a few of my changes instituted are still in place, and I'm still asked opinionated questions by a few of the current Post Officers... Hmmm... Maybe there's hope for them yet... :)
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CPT Jack Durish
"Hope and Change" may make a great political slogan, but it's difficult to implement. I've commented elsewhere in this discussion thread but (forgive me for repeating myself) Vietnam Vets who treat newly minted veterans in the same manner which they were treated should be ashamed of themselves. We swore "never again" would veterans be treated as we were. If anyone wants something to change, let's begin here...
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MSgt Curtis Ellis
I thank you for your comment, Sir, and even I recognize that this is much more than that... Our "Greatest Generation" had to carve out a huge chunk of respect from the American people reflected in the VFW, AL, and other Veterans Organizations, and what they created was something "massive; greater than themselves"... And they held the monopoly on that for a great deal of time; And now? There are new generations of Veterans, with new ideas, and (of course, dare I say it?) viewing change... After being accepted and getting to play around a bit with the "Big Boys", I do understand where they are coming from... And I would be lying if I said that if in their position, I wouldn't feel the same... It's like giving up a military career all over again, but this time, the remainder of your lively hood goes with it... I took the position because I felt I could do it better... But... There is an attachment to the post, the positions within and to these Veterans... I use to view it as just positions that need to be filled... I stepped down because I began to see this was so much more than that to these Veterans... And the pain seen when that position was lost to them... And yes... They still got a lot of fight left in them as long as they still have something to fight for!!! :)
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SPC Chris Early
I think thats part of the reason i never stepped in either one, im not a combat vet i've only been deployed fir OEF and with being a black american vet it doesn't appeal to me to go in and become a member. Its either time for something that attracts the new generation of vets or they have to open their eyes and see that as long as the old way stands the next gen won't want to join in.
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When I left the Army in 2007 I joined the local VFW. I did not stay active and have not sought it out following my treatment.
I came from a small Indiana town. I got out right as the local Nat'l Guard unit (field artillery, yuck) was deploying to Iraq.
I had some issues arise after leaving the military. My best civilian friend and I had a falling out. My mom became very ill. I thought the VFW would be great to be around vets.
Not my experience. I went in to the VFW once. I was the youngest guy in there, by about 3-5 decades. First a guy approached me and asked if I'd been in Iraq. I said yes. He walked off.
A second guy came up and asked if I was in the local guard unit. I said no. He said "oh" and looked at me sideways and walked off.
A third guy came up and asked if I knew the local kid that had just passed in Iraq in a HUMMV accident. I said no. He made some snide remark and walked off.
No one else approached me. I drank another beer and left.
I guess I just didn't feel any connection. And I felt like no one considered me a "real member," because I wasn't a NG guy and didn't know Joey Strong. I'm reticent to join now for similar reasons.
I came from a small Indiana town. I got out right as the local Nat'l Guard unit (field artillery, yuck) was deploying to Iraq.
I had some issues arise after leaving the military. My best civilian friend and I had a falling out. My mom became very ill. I thought the VFW would be great to be around vets.
Not my experience. I went in to the VFW once. I was the youngest guy in there, by about 3-5 decades. First a guy approached me and asked if I'd been in Iraq. I said yes. He walked off.
A second guy came up and asked if I was in the local guard unit. I said no. He said "oh" and looked at me sideways and walked off.
A third guy came up and asked if I knew the local kid that had just passed in Iraq in a HUMMV accident. I said no. He made some snide remark and walked off.
No one else approached me. I drank another beer and left.
I guess I just didn't feel any connection. And I felt like no one considered me a "real member," because I wasn't a NG guy and didn't know Joey Strong. I'm reticent to join now for similar reasons.
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CPT Jack Durish
I hate to repeat myself but your tale is one I've heard far too often. Just keep in mind that there's another post a little farther down the road and it may be worth the time to get there
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I have a lifetime membership with the VFW, and renew my American Legion Membership yearly. Both are great organizations that are active in the community, AND go above and beyond in their support of their membership, and of the Military in general.
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CPT Jack Durish
Each post is the sum of its members. Not all are fortunate to have those who contribute so much to their communities...
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I belong to neither. I remember the active years with neither AL/VFW on the radar. When I shifted to reserves, 1 2/3rds full time jobs, adopting kids, etc. Again not on the radar. My sporadic brushes with the organizations over the years left me feeling they wouldn't wind my clock. Unfortunately the ones I checked out were disguised as organized gripe societies.
Since retiring from the military side, I got very busy with soccer refereeing and in recent years administrating referees on a state level for Special Olympics and running them for the USA Games.
So like anything else, it's a matter of what you want to support and there are more choices out there every day. I do encourage folk to make an informed decision which means check AL/VFW out more than a drive by at the county fair. If a good fit, go for it. "Results may vary".
Since retiring from the military side, I got very busy with soccer refereeing and in recent years administrating referees on a state level for Special Olympics and running them for the USA Games.
So like anything else, it's a matter of what you want to support and there are more choices out there every day. I do encourage folk to make an informed decision which means check AL/VFW out more than a drive by at the county fair. If a good fit, go for it. "Results may vary".
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Life member of the VFW, that being said I have not been to the VFW in over ten years as I am not interested in hanging out in a cigarette smoke filled building with a bunch of bar stool occupiers. I let my American legion membership lapse years ago as the local post was even worse than the VFW. I know that the quality of Posts varies greatly even within a State, I am simply waiting until I am retired to become an active member.
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CPT Jack Durish
Retirement does provide time that most working adults (especially those with children) don't have. It has given me time to diet and exercise (lost 85 lbs) It's given me time to write (I've published one novel and several short stories). And it gives you time for volunteering. I'm a member of the VFW and AL. I chose posts that are actively involved in helping the veteran community.
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I joined the VFW 4 months ago because of a similar post here, at 54 I’m the new kid. yup they have a Bar and bar flies but you need to look deeper into it. I’m shocked at how much they do and give to the community. That bar generates revenue that they give away. Yes they don’t open up to new people quickly but I’m sure they have seen many come and go. I’m determined to reach younger vets, and create programs that they want to see. It’s a challenge but I’m up for it. This month I became their Facebook guy, so I’ll create a facebook page for them and try to reach out on social media. If anyone has been successful in the area of social media and the Vets I can use the ideas
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PO1 Glenn Boucher
Have not joined yet, the ones I went to here in California and back in Virginia seemed too much like a good old boys club.
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Sgt David G Duchesneau
You know, like I said, I am a Life Member of both. At first I joined the State Chapters because I didn't want to get involved plus, I am not a drinker but after going to one local meeting I transferred my membership to the local Chapters. Now, I realize that I joined the AL and VFW for the camaraderie and to support their Veterans Programs. I do not hang out at the Post but I do volunteer to be part of their Honor Guard and I do play Taps at Military Funerals. I am also a member of the Marine Corps League, Marine Corps Association and Bugles Across America. And yes, before anyone ask, that is a silhouette of me playing taps! SF!
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