Posted on Nov 26, 2014
What Role Does Religion Play Within Our Military?
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With member of the military identifying with 98 different religions, it is evident our Armed Forces is extremely diverse. Unfortunately, religious differences sometimes cause feelings of animosity between service members. Are you less likely to trust another service member who does not identify with the same religion as you?
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Command Post
Posted 11 y ago
Responses: 138
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As a chaplain assistant I advise that you go talk to your chaplain personally instead for a direct answer instead of asking on the internet for abroad answers. If you do not know your chaplain I suggest you just sit down and talk with him. He or she is not a just a pastoral counselor because we must administer to people of all faiths. Also there is a place On your post called the Religious Support Office . They definitely would have a lot of answers for you SGT. If your ever on a Fort Bragg you can look me up SGT. I'll be glad to assist you Because My Chaplain and I love all Soldiers with out anytype of discrimination. However if you continue to hear people talking about you I advise you to use your 1st steps in the EO AND SHARP manual and CONFRONT them face to face and then report them to your chain of command.
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SGT (Join to see)
Had my fill of Ft. Dragg, and Fayettenam, thanks.
I have sat down with my chaplain many times, even helped him with bible study (go figure, I know how to spread The Word better than he does). But when I ask him for help, he tells me to "put God to the test". Even knowing I'm an atheist, he tells me to pray. I already understand the spiritual needs and yadda-yadda-yadda, but if I'm in the field, and I need a confidential source to talk to, should my only option be the chaplain? Should the only option an atheist has be a man of God? Appreciate the input.
I have sat down with my chaplain many times, even helped him with bible study (go figure, I know how to spread The Word better than he does). But when I ask him for help, he tells me to "put God to the test". Even knowing I'm an atheist, he tells me to pray. I already understand the spiritual needs and yadda-yadda-yadda, but if I'm in the field, and I need a confidential source to talk to, should my only option be the chaplain? Should the only option an atheist has be a man of God? Appreciate the input.
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SPC (Join to see)
No you have your chaplain Assistant which is also another source of confidentiality. But I feel what your saying but we all have experiences of circumstances
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SGT (Join to see)
I don't think our chaplain has an assistant, or at least not one that I've seen. Maybe it's different on the reserve side, but I understand what you're trying to get at.
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGT (Join to see), that's a rather arrogant claim to make; "Go figure, I know how to spread The Word better than he does."
Do you make the same claims about the other professionals in your life? What qualifies you, as a confirmed atheist, and therefore likely not a dedicated student of scripture or Biblical context, to presume you know more than a man who has devoted his life to this pursuit, has spent years in formal training, and has been recognized with the ecclesiastical endorsement of his church body to formally preach and spread The Word with it's official sanction?
It dismays you that when you discuss matters with him, that he is frequently beseeching you to "put God to the test?" Could it be that the challenges you are laying before him are best suited to a test of faith? Even though you're an atheist, if you consult a Man of God on a spiritual concern that is disturbing you, it stands to reason, he is going to recommend that you give prayer a try. What were you expecting from him? A recommendation that you give virginal sacrifice a shot?
Don't get me wrong, I am not making light of your choice not to believe. Like many of my atheist friends, I can tell that you invest more time in serious thought on these matters that people of faith would do well to question for themselves. But the system works well. And, if you ever feel that you are being marginalized or punished for being a non-believer, exercise your Chain-of-Command to address it immediately and if that doesn't work, go visit your IG. Just please don't try to take away something the majority feel we need to serve effectively. Thanks!
Do you make the same claims about the other professionals in your life? What qualifies you, as a confirmed atheist, and therefore likely not a dedicated student of scripture or Biblical context, to presume you know more than a man who has devoted his life to this pursuit, has spent years in formal training, and has been recognized with the ecclesiastical endorsement of his church body to formally preach and spread The Word with it's official sanction?
It dismays you that when you discuss matters with him, that he is frequently beseeching you to "put God to the test?" Could it be that the challenges you are laying before him are best suited to a test of faith? Even though you're an atheist, if you consult a Man of God on a spiritual concern that is disturbing you, it stands to reason, he is going to recommend that you give prayer a try. What were you expecting from him? A recommendation that you give virginal sacrifice a shot?
Don't get me wrong, I am not making light of your choice not to believe. Like many of my atheist friends, I can tell that you invest more time in serious thought on these matters that people of faith would do well to question for themselves. But the system works well. And, if you ever feel that you are being marginalized or punished for being a non-believer, exercise your Chain-of-Command to address it immediately and if that doesn't work, go visit your IG. Just please don't try to take away something the majority feel we need to serve effectively. Thanks!
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Sorry, once again I can't click any of the predefined answers. The issue is too complex.
When it comes to the discussion of religion, I find that its defenders often do far more damage than its opponents.
Sad.
I wish those who engage in the debate would begin by separating religion and faith.
America obviously was founded by the faithful. Every one of the Founders expressed their faith. Their faith is clearly expressed in the founding documents. Our inalienable rights come from God, not from the will of men.
Most Americans are people of faith. Even those who aren't, usually find faith when faced with death (as in the foxhole).
The authors of the Constitution obviously understood that faith and religion were independent subjects. The First Amendment was written to protect individual faith by restricting the government from establishing one religion.
Religion is a communal interpretation of faith based on beliefs. Sadly, those who are insecure in their beliefs consider different beliefs as attacks on their own. Interestingly, atheism is very much like religion in this respect. Atheists seem to see all religious beliefs as attacks on their beliefs and have counterattacked with their own. They pervert the spirit and intent of the First Amendment to impose their beliefs on the faithful. How is that different from the faithful persecuting atheists?
Why can't we all just get along and leave faith as a personal choice?
That being said, I believe that chaplains are as important as medical corpsmen on the battlefield. Essentially, they serve the same purpose. Bear with me on this one...
Imagine if there were no medical corpsmen. Every service man and woman accepts the possibility that they may be killed. However, they know full well that they are far more likely to be wounded. Why would anyone voluntarily stand up in defense of the nation if they thought they would be abandoned if wounded?
As an aside, this is one of the most disturbing issues in the failures of the VA system. You can bet that active duty personnel have at least one eye on the poor care being provided to veterans knowing that they too one day may suffer the same.
I believe the same is true when it comes to spiritual care. No one is more spiritually vulnerable than the wounded, especially the mortally wounded. Who would be willing to go in harms way if they were told that no one would be there to hold their hand as they went to meet their maker or whatever fate they believed awaited them? Who would be willing to risk death and dismemberment if they didn't have an ordained clergyman to administer religious rites before the battle? Who would be willing to pull the trigger if there wasn't someone to help them wrestle with the conflict that every warrior feels as they face the prospect of committing murder and mayhem? (Unless of course they are sociopaths. Should we deny those who serve our nation their right to religious succor just to appease the sensibilities of sociopaths?)
When it comes to the discussion of religion, I find that its defenders often do far more damage than its opponents.
Sad.
I wish those who engage in the debate would begin by separating religion and faith.
America obviously was founded by the faithful. Every one of the Founders expressed their faith. Their faith is clearly expressed in the founding documents. Our inalienable rights come from God, not from the will of men.
Most Americans are people of faith. Even those who aren't, usually find faith when faced with death (as in the foxhole).
The authors of the Constitution obviously understood that faith and religion were independent subjects. The First Amendment was written to protect individual faith by restricting the government from establishing one religion.
Religion is a communal interpretation of faith based on beliefs. Sadly, those who are insecure in their beliefs consider different beliefs as attacks on their own. Interestingly, atheism is very much like religion in this respect. Atheists seem to see all religious beliefs as attacks on their beliefs and have counterattacked with their own. They pervert the spirit and intent of the First Amendment to impose their beliefs on the faithful. How is that different from the faithful persecuting atheists?
Why can't we all just get along and leave faith as a personal choice?
That being said, I believe that chaplains are as important as medical corpsmen on the battlefield. Essentially, they serve the same purpose. Bear with me on this one...
Imagine if there were no medical corpsmen. Every service man and woman accepts the possibility that they may be killed. However, they know full well that they are far more likely to be wounded. Why would anyone voluntarily stand up in defense of the nation if they thought they would be abandoned if wounded?
As an aside, this is one of the most disturbing issues in the failures of the VA system. You can bet that active duty personnel have at least one eye on the poor care being provided to veterans knowing that they too one day may suffer the same.
I believe the same is true when it comes to spiritual care. No one is more spiritually vulnerable than the wounded, especially the mortally wounded. Who would be willing to go in harms way if they were told that no one would be there to hold their hand as they went to meet their maker or whatever fate they believed awaited them? Who would be willing to risk death and dismemberment if they didn't have an ordained clergyman to administer religious rites before the battle? Who would be willing to pull the trigger if there wasn't someone to help them wrestle with the conflict that every warrior feels as they face the prospect of committing murder and mayhem? (Unless of course they are sociopaths. Should we deny those who serve our nation their right to religious succor just to appease the sensibilities of sociopaths?)
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"A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."
For those that have religion, it is a core part of who they are. It is ingrained into their belief system and personality traits. The Army values have always been a part of my life, because they have a foundation in my religion. It's not something I'll abandon or give up to serve, because its who I am. I think religion should play a bigger role in the military, because it would improve morale and the health of our service members to have more soldiers understand the foundation of each others beliefs.
For those that have religion, it is a core part of who they are. It is ingrained into their belief system and personality traits. The Army values have always been a part of my life, because they have a foundation in my religion. It's not something I'll abandon or give up to serve, because its who I am. I think religion should play a bigger role in the military, because it would improve morale and the health of our service members to have more soldiers understand the foundation of each others beliefs.
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"Are you less likely to trust another service member who does not identify with the same religion as you?" -- No, not at all. It's best to evaluate another person by who they are, their morals and experiences but not by their religion.
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I've got no problem with other faiths, but I can tell you the US army would have bigger problems than boys running around videotaping girls showering in their submarines if they had to share the demographics of the UK and other Western nations. The US miraculously finds itself with an overwhelming Christian majority amongst its ranks despite its open arms to the sick, tired, and poor of the world. I recall an especially cringe-worthy social experiment where our Basic Officer Leadership Course cadre took us to a mosque in El Paso to orient ourselves to unfamiliar territory...a few officers thought it an appropriate occasion to defend the teachings of Christ. Can't recall a more embarrassing situation in my life.
26% no preference...I specified atheist, and a Christian personnel soldier said "ok, we'll just list you as no preference." That's what was stamped on my dog tags, and that's what's reported here. My Battalion commander was Christian, and my O-3 supervisor on deployment was Christian....held daily prayer circles and told me to leave when I stood alongside my soldiers in an event that they felt was important on company time.
We also had a civilian (who got to wear an army uniform with LTC rank - was not, and never was in the army) operate as our battalion chaplain because the commander liked him and he knew the adjutant general of our state.
Then there was that glorious moment of tolerance in OCS when we were funneled into an auditorium and told that anyone who isn't a Christian can stand outside in the cold and wait for the Christian briefing and service to be over. Me and three Jewish soldiers stood outside and stared at each other as we took the walk of shame past the cadre for not sharing their religion.
This is merely an anecdote to inform fellow soldiers that this institution is not the beacon of morality it totes itself as. There is a reason why strangers on the other side of the world do not like us. We are an organization with an identity crisis that finds itself unprepared for the burden of diplomacy that is necessary for 21st century warfare. Getting past religious differences would be a monumental first step.
26% no preference...I specified atheist, and a Christian personnel soldier said "ok, we'll just list you as no preference." That's what was stamped on my dog tags, and that's what's reported here. My Battalion commander was Christian, and my O-3 supervisor on deployment was Christian....held daily prayer circles and told me to leave when I stood alongside my soldiers in an event that they felt was important on company time.
We also had a civilian (who got to wear an army uniform with LTC rank - was not, and never was in the army) operate as our battalion chaplain because the commander liked him and he knew the adjutant general of our state.
Then there was that glorious moment of tolerance in OCS when we were funneled into an auditorium and told that anyone who isn't a Christian can stand outside in the cold and wait for the Christian briefing and service to be over. Me and three Jewish soldiers stood outside and stared at each other as we took the walk of shame past the cadre for not sharing their religion.
This is merely an anecdote to inform fellow soldiers that this institution is not the beacon of morality it totes itself as. There is a reason why strangers on the other side of the world do not like us. We are an organization with an identity crisis that finds itself unprepared for the burden of diplomacy that is necessary for 21st century warfare. Getting past religious differences would be a monumental first step.
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I thought it interesting that Catholic, Christian, ETC were all considered different religions? While I am willing to listen to the difference between Catholics and Protestants, they are both Christians. So the top five are all Christians, even if they label the same basic group with 90 labels.
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MSG Brad Sand
SPC (Join to see)
In truth, most of the differences are doctrinal that the lay person does not understand or care about. IF you have a deep interest in studying the history of the faith and do some deep research into the Trinity, predestination, ETC. You will start learning terms like four point and five point Calvinism...and in my opinion will become lose the forest because of the trees. For a short answer, there was a major break in the Roman Catholic...catholic translates from universal...some of the first breaks members attempting to make internal corrections and being forced from the church.
In truth, most of the differences are doctrinal that the lay person does not understand or care about. IF you have a deep interest in studying the history of the faith and do some deep research into the Trinity, predestination, ETC. You will start learning terms like four point and five point Calvinism...and in my opinion will become lose the forest because of the trees. For a short answer, there was a major break in the Roman Catholic...catholic translates from universal...some of the first breaks members attempting to make internal corrections and being forced from the church.
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SSG William Patton
It seems the military has taken a stance on Christianity that makes it difficult for a soldier who believes in Christ to serve. Being so far removed from active service, it is hard for me to grasp what this means to the individual serving and to the organization as a whole. My perspective on the left and government bending over backward to accomodate islam makes me wonder if they is the case with the military. It seems like all members of other religions are allowed to practice their faith, but not Christians. Am I wrong here? Again, I am not on active duty now and have not been for a long, long time, so I have no perspective.
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PV2 Abbott Shaull
I totally agree with MSG Brad Sand, to many people tend to forget that Catholic, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, and etc. they all have few things in common. They have God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Bible in Common, as well as being Christian. Any person who considers themselves a member of any of those churches also considers themselves a Christian, and it is doctrinal teachings and historical believes that separate these organizations more than anything else. Anyone who doesn't believe in Christian faith, general looks as all of the combined faiths, and lump them together, with the possible exception of the Catholic Church because of it World Wide foot print it has.
Even the first Christian Churches couldn't agree, and grew apart. It is why we have Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and many younger sect of the Christianity.
Even the first Christian Churches couldn't agree, and grew apart. It is why we have Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and many younger sect of the Christianity.
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SPC (Join to see)
I have been learning about ancient times for the last year or so and I find it really interesting. Looking into The Knights Templar have really caught my interest, so now I have to delve into the differences of Christianity to continue my learning. I don't bicker with people about religion, I just do what I can to learn as much as possible.
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I believe that religion (and I mean all or lack thereof) is a personal choice and those people should be afforded the opportunites to worship, pray, display whatever they want in their private space (work station, desk ets) or base chapel. I believe that at a promotion ceremoney or a retirement ceremony the honoree should be able to pray or not based on their faith.
NOW...professionally at work I don't care what you believe or don't believe, has no bearing on what I or the unit needs from you. All I care about is when I am needing overwatch you have my back and I have yours...when you are injured I am not gonna say well, he is an atheist so he gets last priority for rescue...I am gonna come get you and I hope you would do the same for me. If you ask about my religion I will be glad to share it with you but I willnot force it on you. Hopefully my actions speak for themselves.
Lt Col Charlie Brown SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth MSgt Dale Johnson CPL Douglas Chrysler CMSgt Marcus Falleaf Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CMSgt (Join to see) PO1 Jeff Chandler CSM Chuck Stafford MSgt John McGowan Lt Col Charlie Brown Cpl Vic Burk MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D.
NOW...professionally at work I don't care what you believe or don't believe, has no bearing on what I or the unit needs from you. All I care about is when I am needing overwatch you have my back and I have yours...when you are injured I am not gonna say well, he is an atheist so he gets last priority for rescue...I am gonna come get you and I hope you would do the same for me. If you ask about my religion I will be glad to share it with you but I willnot force it on you. Hopefully my actions speak for themselves.
Lt Col Charlie Brown SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth MSgt Dale Johnson CPL Douglas Chrysler CMSgt Marcus Falleaf Maj William W. 'Bill' Price CMSgt (Join to see) PO1 Jeff Chandler CSM Chuck Stafford MSgt John McGowan Lt Col Charlie Brown Cpl Vic Burk MAJ Dale E. Wilson, Ph.D.
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Religion plays an important role in the armed svcs. No question.
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I believe that the military should do everything possible to foster and support the spiritual lives of individual soldiers, however religion should play no role in any function where attendance is not completely voluntary.
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