Posted on Jan 26, 2015
When, Not If, Will We See Open Transgender Military Service?
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On November 23, 2014, the Palm Center released a statement entitled "Military Services Have Failed To Comply With New Defense Department Rules On Transgender Personnel."
http://www.palmcenter.org/files/services%20out%20of%20compliance%20memo.pdf
This followed a report from last March where former Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders led a group that concluded there were no sound medical reasons why transgender people couldn't serve in the military services. It also followed an August report outlining a blueprint for how transgender people can be integrated into the military services - integrated much in the same way as 18 of our allies have already accomplished within their military services.
Military Times covered release of this latest report by the Palm Center. "A change to a Pentagon personnel policy three months ago loosens the rules barring transgender troops from serving in the U.S. military," stated the Army and Navy Times in their article entitled Report: Loophole could allow transgender troops to serve under new DoD policy, "giving the individual services leeway to retain these personnel." The article further stated, "The update -- to Defense Department Instruction 1332.18, Disability Evaluation System -- provides a loophole for the services to let transgender troops serve instead of requiring administrative separation, the Palm Center says."
The same socially conservative religious organizations that argued against repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) such as the Center for Military Readiness, the Center for Security Policy, and the Family Research Council, are using almost identical arguments. In the end, those arguments didn't work and DADT was repealed.
DADT was a federal law passed in 1993 that barred lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) service members from serving openly in the military services, and the law needed repeal before LGB service members could serve openly in recent years. All that bars transgender people from serving openly now is the DoD and individual service regulations. And, it appears that the overarching DoD regulation was weakened last August so that the four DoD military services could change their rules now to allow open transgender service.
The military didn't implode when LGB service members could serve openly in the American military services; the military won't implode if – or when - transgender service members can serve openly in the American military services. Honestly, does anybody currently serving in the military, who has given more than a moment's thought to this, really believe there won't come a point in the next five years or so where transgender service members are serving openly? I think most people who've put some thought into this know that it's not a question of whether America will have openly transgender service members at some point, but rather a question of when we'll have it.
So with that in mind, do you agree it's a question of "when" and not "if"? And if you agree it's a "when," how soon do you believe we'll see open transgender military service?
http://www.palmcenter.org/files/services%20out%20of%20compliance%20memo.pdf
This followed a report from last March where former Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders led a group that concluded there were no sound medical reasons why transgender people couldn't serve in the military services. It also followed an August report outlining a blueprint for how transgender people can be integrated into the military services - integrated much in the same way as 18 of our allies have already accomplished within their military services.
Military Times covered release of this latest report by the Palm Center. "A change to a Pentagon personnel policy three months ago loosens the rules barring transgender troops from serving in the U.S. military," stated the Army and Navy Times in their article entitled Report: Loophole could allow transgender troops to serve under new DoD policy, "giving the individual services leeway to retain these personnel." The article further stated, "The update -- to Defense Department Instruction 1332.18, Disability Evaluation System -- provides a loophole for the services to let transgender troops serve instead of requiring administrative separation, the Palm Center says."
The same socially conservative religious organizations that argued against repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell (DADT) such as the Center for Military Readiness, the Center for Security Policy, and the Family Research Council, are using almost identical arguments. In the end, those arguments didn't work and DADT was repealed.
DADT was a federal law passed in 1993 that barred lesbian, gay, and bisexual (LGB) service members from serving openly in the military services, and the law needed repeal before LGB service members could serve openly in recent years. All that bars transgender people from serving openly now is the DoD and individual service regulations. And, it appears that the overarching DoD regulation was weakened last August so that the four DoD military services could change their rules now to allow open transgender service.
The military didn't implode when LGB service members could serve openly in the American military services; the military won't implode if – or when - transgender service members can serve openly in the American military services. Honestly, does anybody currently serving in the military, who has given more than a moment's thought to this, really believe there won't come a point in the next five years or so where transgender service members are serving openly? I think most people who've put some thought into this know that it's not a question of whether America will have openly transgender service members at some point, but rather a question of when we'll have it.
So with that in mind, do you agree it's a question of "when" and not "if"? And if you agree it's a "when," how soon do you believe we'll see open transgender military service?
Policy
Transgender
Don't ask Don't tell (DADT)
Command Post
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 156
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With all due respect, PO1 Autumn Sandeen, I see this "gender identification" issue as an aberration, and I hope we never see what you describe. In the news this week is a high school boy who "identifies" as a girl. He/she demands to use the girls' bathroom and locker room. The school tried to reasonably accommodate him/her, but that wasn't good enough, so the government swooped in and required the school to allow him/her to use the girls' facilities, or else ... the school will lose lots of federal aid. If my daughter were attending that school, I think I would cry foul. This is clearly an aberration, and even when the school tried to accommodate this individual, that wasn't good enough.
When I hear stories like this, I wonder where the limit is, or if there is a limit at all. There must be advocates for all manner of aberration. I wonder, what next?! I don't really even want to know.
As others have said, why all the hub-bub about transgender and sexual identification? Why do "we" have to announce our "gender identity"? Why can't we just be a Soldier? One team, one fight? I guess I'm old fashioned about this. I served 30 years on active duty, and I never felt the need to announce or wave a flag regarding my sexual orientation or my "gender identity." What's next? It boggles the mind and scares me a little.
When I hear stories like this, I wonder where the limit is, or if there is a limit at all. There must be advocates for all manner of aberration. I wonder, what next?! I don't really even want to know.
As others have said, why all the hub-bub about transgender and sexual identification? Why do "we" have to announce our "gender identity"? Why can't we just be a Soldier? One team, one fight? I guess I'm old fashioned about this. I served 30 years on active duty, and I never felt the need to announce or wave a flag regarding my sexual orientation or my "gender identity." What's next? It boggles the mind and scares me a little.
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SPC (Join to see)
CW5 Scott Montgomery - Hi, Scott. As I have said before in other threads, the assumption is that you are hetrosexual. The problem arrives when this assumption of another is incorrect. This other person is NOT hetrosexual. The non-hetrosexual member of the military (or a member of the civilian population, for that matter) has two choices: 1) S/he can let the incorrect assumption "pass" by saying nothing, or 2) S/he can correct the incorrect assumption. Correcting the incorrect assumption is NOT "flaunting!" The correcting is just that: a correcting of an incorrect assumption. So, of course not. There's no reason for you to ". . . .announce or wave a flag regarding my sexual orientation or my 'gender identity'" (any more than there is a reason for you to march in a Str8 pride parade. The "pride" is already there. Everyone already knows this!
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SPC Matt Ovaska
If your daughter is raped by one in the girls room and you go to the school board meeting in Virginia. The government will label you you as a domestic terrorist, you can expect the FBI to brake your door down at 3:AM and cuff you in front of your wife and kids, haul your butt to jail. This country is doomed.
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If this is going to happen...then it should happen quietly and privately. For those who want to change their Gender....do not flaunt it...do not share it publicly.....do it privately and quietly and go on your merry way... Don't share it or shout it to the world....keep it to yourself and family....Then maybe, just maybe you can stay in the military and live your life the way you want to.
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CW3 Jim Norris
This sexual identity problem is a mental one, it is between your ears not your legs. Do we not see that we are poisoning the well of the nation that provided this opportunity to us all? Keep trying to make abnormal behavior the norm, abhorrent conduct acceptable and you will get that which you sow - a degenerate people ready to be ruled over.
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The logistical issues are much more troubling than any religious consideration. The typical practice in federal agencies is that a transgendered customer or employee may use the restroom of the sex with which he or she identifies - so long as it does not interfere with other customers or employees. Enforcing such a policy at the unit level, and especially on deployment, would undoubtedly impact camaraderie, unit cohesion, and require a plethora of unisex, single person latrines in an effort to avoid the conflict. I believe it's unrealistic. If a transgendered military member wants to serve, I say, "fine." It is the expectation of profound accommodations from the service that make it a bad idea.
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Why are we even talking about this. So Bruce Jenner has made cross dressing Cool. Serving in the military is about serving your country not your life style or agenda. And we do not serve to be a social experiment for progressive and Obama. So now the gay agenda and lifestyle are all we are talking about. Chaplains are being told what they can say and the gay flag is being flown on the Base. And I have read about soldiers having to attend gay sensitivity courses as well as what they are allowed to read. And there commanding officers asking there stand in Marriage. and not to change the subject. You have a wrestler who cannot win as a man so he takes some hormon shots , let's his hair grow and now he is a transgender and wants to wrestle women. And we know how that turned out he broke a female wrestlers jaw in three places. But I transgress and this is getting to long. And they want us to pay for the surgery. And they are moving them to the front of the line.
We have Veterans who have to wait months before they can see a Doctor at the VA. You know After hearing people close to Buce Jenner say that he is now what he was ment to be. But he does not have the courage to have his penis removed.
We have Veterans who have to wait months before they can see a Doctor at the VA. You know After hearing people close to Buce Jenner say that he is now what he was ment to be. But he does not have the courage to have his penis removed.
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Open transgender service is already here. I have a Soldier in my detachment who wants to be a woman. Nothing about this situation was ever taught in any leadership school I have attended. It's not an easy process for anyone. It is easy for people to say that it doesn't matter about sexual identity, just put on the uniform and serve. It's much more complicated than that. I will give you some situations for you to ponder, and maybe you have some recommendations or ideas to share.
1. Organizational day and families are arriving at the unit, transgender (gender dysphoria) Soldier arrives in a pink v-neck shirt, capri pants, pink accessories (phone case, watch, etc), and pink converse. Not a complete change from man to woman. Not very unisex, and was only the beginning. How do you explain that to family members and their children? What is the proper way to address the Soldier?
2. The duties in my office require the wear of civilian clothing. One of the missions in my unit is to conduct host nation liaison. Transgender Soldier feels that he is a woman, wants to wear feminine business attire. At the moment, not allowed, but when DoD policy changes happen, will situations like this be considered? What if you are in a country that isn't as progressive to these lifestyles? What are your thoughts?
3. TDY and FTX environments. Soldier comes out of the shower wearing women's underwear in front of male Soldiers. Is this considered a SHARP matter? Obviously many male Soldiers may have an issue with this.
4. Soldier is taking hormone therapy with Army doctor approval. Soldier is now asking to wear a sports bra to PRT, under the uniform. Soldier also complains that push ups are very difficult, and running is uncomfortable because of the hormone induced breasts. What do you tell this Soldier? There isn't a policy for this. Unless your ERB/ORB says Female, you are required to follow the uniform policy applicable to your gender.
I have other experiences related to this. I'm curious if anyone else on rallypoint has had dealings with this issue while in the military?
1. Organizational day and families are arriving at the unit, transgender (gender dysphoria) Soldier arrives in a pink v-neck shirt, capri pants, pink accessories (phone case, watch, etc), and pink converse. Not a complete change from man to woman. Not very unisex, and was only the beginning. How do you explain that to family members and their children? What is the proper way to address the Soldier?
2. The duties in my office require the wear of civilian clothing. One of the missions in my unit is to conduct host nation liaison. Transgender Soldier feels that he is a woman, wants to wear feminine business attire. At the moment, not allowed, but when DoD policy changes happen, will situations like this be considered? What if you are in a country that isn't as progressive to these lifestyles? What are your thoughts?
3. TDY and FTX environments. Soldier comes out of the shower wearing women's underwear in front of male Soldiers. Is this considered a SHARP matter? Obviously many male Soldiers may have an issue with this.
4. Soldier is taking hormone therapy with Army doctor approval. Soldier is now asking to wear a sports bra to PRT, under the uniform. Soldier also complains that push ups are very difficult, and running is uncomfortable because of the hormone induced breasts. What do you tell this Soldier? There isn't a policy for this. Unless your ERB/ORB says Female, you are required to follow the uniform policy applicable to your gender.
I have other experiences related to this. I'm curious if anyone else on rallypoint has had dealings with this issue while in the military?
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SPC (Join to see)
Hi Kameron.
"What if you are in a country that isn't as progressive to these lifestyles? What are your thoughts?" Transgenders should not be ordered to locations where our "lifestyles" aren't accepted. Remember issues swirling around the acceptance of Gay footballers at the last World Cup, in Qatar, a homophobic country?
"Obviously many male Soldiers may have an issue with this." Male soldiers have had issues with African-American and Gay soldiers. How have these issues turned out? I remember a high level, administrative-rank Marine saying something like, "When a Marine is given an order, s/he merely obeys the order. . . ."
"[a] Transgender Soldier feels that he is a woman. . . ." No, a male-to-female, transgendered soldier doesn't feel he's a woman. A transgendered soldier knows that SHE IS a woman.
"Soldier is taking hormone therapy with Army doctor approval. Soldier is now asking to wear a sports bra to PRT, under the uniform. [etc.] The army doctor approving hormone therapy orders the transgendered male-to-female soldier to have and to wear female uniforms and accoutrements.
Just as with the acceptance of African-Americans and Gays into the United States military has required thinking outside of the racist and homophobic boxes, thus so, the military is to think outside of the transgender box. No one has said that any of this would be easy.
Finally, here's something that I remember from my university course, Psychology 101. There was a research study conducted with flexibility-thinking and inflexibility-thinking freshman college students. Remember this study? Each group was given flash cards that, when flipped through rapidly, changed a dog into a cat. Remember this study now? The flexibility-thinking students saw the gradual changes from dog-to-cat from the very beginning of the changes. The inflexibility-thinking students didn't see the dog changing into the cat until towards the very end. The dog remained a dog even as it was changing. Then, behold! At the very end, the inflexibility-thinking students could say, "There's a cat!"
"What if you are in a country that isn't as progressive to these lifestyles? What are your thoughts?" Transgenders should not be ordered to locations where our "lifestyles" aren't accepted. Remember issues swirling around the acceptance of Gay footballers at the last World Cup, in Qatar, a homophobic country?
"Obviously many male Soldiers may have an issue with this." Male soldiers have had issues with African-American and Gay soldiers. How have these issues turned out? I remember a high level, administrative-rank Marine saying something like, "When a Marine is given an order, s/he merely obeys the order. . . ."
"[a] Transgender Soldier feels that he is a woman. . . ." No, a male-to-female, transgendered soldier doesn't feel he's a woman. A transgendered soldier knows that SHE IS a woman.
"Soldier is taking hormone therapy with Army doctor approval. Soldier is now asking to wear a sports bra to PRT, under the uniform. [etc.] The army doctor approving hormone therapy orders the transgendered male-to-female soldier to have and to wear female uniforms and accoutrements.
Just as with the acceptance of African-Americans and Gays into the United States military has required thinking outside of the racist and homophobic boxes, thus so, the military is to think outside of the transgender box. No one has said that any of this would be easy.
Finally, here's something that I remember from my university course, Psychology 101. There was a research study conducted with flexibility-thinking and inflexibility-thinking freshman college students. Remember this study? Each group was given flash cards that, when flipped through rapidly, changed a dog into a cat. Remember this study now? The flexibility-thinking students saw the gradual changes from dog-to-cat from the very beginning of the changes. The inflexibility-thinking students didn't see the dog changing into the cat until towards the very end. The dog remained a dog even as it was changing. Then, behold! At the very end, the inflexibility-thinking students could say, "There's a cat!"
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Israel's IDF has transgenders serving. I think that history has shown that, in ours and foreign miilitaries, LBGTs have performed in an outstanding manner. (Years ago, during and before DADT, I wasn't sure after both meeting people and reading about how its worked in Canada, Australia, Israel and UK, i've been convinced there is no problem) I think anyone regardless whether they be male/female, gay, bisexual or transgender should be allowed to serve. We have adapted well when we integrated units racially, we integrated females into most units and now into combat units/MOS, repeal of DADT and now we are looking at transgender. The only issues that could come up would be if, in some situations, transgenders may be required to continue medication maintenance indefinitely such as some asthmatics, people with diabetes, etc. Also, if a soldiers wants surgery after they are in there would be the cost factor and how long it would keep them nonproductive (one solution would be to give them a leave of absence and upon successful surgery they return) I'm not an expert on the impact of those situations; that would be up to a the military health care system doctors to decide; however, the status itself should not be disqualifying.
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We're seeing it, we're just not labeling it. Thank you for your service is all that is needed.
Thank you for your service as a (your gender preference here) veteran, thank you for your service as a (your race here) veteran, thank you for your service as a (your religion here) veteran - ABSOLUTELY NOT!
If a group still needs or wants to be labeled, then they are imposing their own separation and discrimination from the mainstream and are IMHO causing more harm to their situation.
Thank you for your service as a (your gender preference here) veteran, thank you for your service as a (your race here) veteran, thank you for your service as a (your religion here) veteran - ABSOLUTELY NOT!
If a group still needs or wants to be labeled, then they are imposing their own separation and discrimination from the mainstream and are IMHO causing more harm to their situation.
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SPC Matt Ovaska
I had a female thank me for my service recently. I asked her if she realized the she just thanked a baby likker. She replied, "but you served. I replied, Didn't have a choice mam, I was drafted.
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I remember in a group climate discussion we had at unit level on homosexuals serving, an individual made the statement, "I don't want to have to share showers with (homosexuals)." I had the rebuttle, "So are we going to make them have separate drinking fountains, as well?"
Understand, I am an individual that just weighs in on the conservative side between the two primary parties (and usually only show my republican side), this took some people by surprise.
I don't care if you're a homosexual, I don't care if you're a Muslim. I only care if you're an American fighting for American principles such as freedom.
With that being said, not all share my view, and I believe this should be heavily introduced to TRADOC units, by outstanding leaders who are homosexual/transgender or an uncommon religion. This way we introduce incoming soldiers to these new standards we are to introduce into the Military.
Again I will say, with that being said, that is an in due time situation. Obviously regulations do need to be put into place.
How do leaders address a soldier that intends to DX their gender?
What avenues do SMs have to take for this transition?
I will say duty takes precedence. We as soldiers have agreed to put duty above ourselves, our wants, etc
One day I hope we have a fighting force that equally represents every single American's walk of life, we aren't there yet, and it's not going to be a successful overnight change. We need acclimation to make this work properly. Not force.
Understand, I am an individual that just weighs in on the conservative side between the two primary parties (and usually only show my republican side), this took some people by surprise.
I don't care if you're a homosexual, I don't care if you're a Muslim. I only care if you're an American fighting for American principles such as freedom.
With that being said, not all share my view, and I believe this should be heavily introduced to TRADOC units, by outstanding leaders who are homosexual/transgender or an uncommon religion. This way we introduce incoming soldiers to these new standards we are to introduce into the Military.
Again I will say, with that being said, that is an in due time situation. Obviously regulations do need to be put into place.
How do leaders address a soldier that intends to DX their gender?
What avenues do SMs have to take for this transition?
I will say duty takes precedence. We as soldiers have agreed to put duty above ourselves, our wants, etc
One day I hope we have a fighting force that equally represents every single American's walk of life, we aren't there yet, and it's not going to be a successful overnight change. We need acclimation to make this work properly. Not force.
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SPC (Join to see)
Hi Emerson. One time, I sent a "connect" request to a fellow RP member. I stated that I hoped we could become friends as opportunities presented themselves. I received an affirmative response with this jaw-dropping statement: "As far as I am concerned, we were friends from the moment we both raised our rights hands." His comment changed so much of my thinking about my fellow American service(wo)men. The change in thinking was immediate!
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I do not believe they should serve in the military period, only speaking from a medical perspective. I served my 20 years as a Independent Duty Hospital Corpsman. I worked on units where I provided patient care and the patients and I spoke openly about this topic. The gay, lesbian and transgender lifestyle simply does not promote good morale, especially when the style picks up HIV, Hepatitis C, body morphing, etc. One HIV patient costs the military millions of dollars, countless hours of patient care, medicines that costs an entire year's salary, etc. When one decides to live this lifestyle it has the potential to effect an entire brigade, battalion, unit and so on.
This lifestyle is all about what they want, how they feel, fair treatment, etc. Most do not thing of the larger picture. The cost to others, taxes, insurance and so on.
If one wishes to live such a lifestyle, please do so on your own dime. Others should not have to be burdened with self-serving entitlements.
Sorry, if this sounds stern but my words are witnessed facts from treating hundreds of patients.
This lifestyle is all about what they want, how they feel, fair treatment, etc. Most do not thing of the larger picture. The cost to others, taxes, insurance and so on.
If one wishes to live such a lifestyle, please do so on your own dime. Others should not have to be burdened with self-serving entitlements.
Sorry, if this sounds stern but my words are witnessed facts from treating hundreds of patients.
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SSgt Nicole Biscoe
From my perspective, I think it's costing tax payers even more money since I'm getting out. The government has spent hundreds of thousands (probably even a lot more than that) to maintain my clearance and train me over the last 11.5 years and now I'm leaving for a civilian company to do the same type of work. Transitioning at this point, for me at least, would have been cheaper for the government.
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