Posted on Aug 15, 2023
How should the military community respond to veterans like Craig Robertson?
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Last week Air Force Veteran Craig Robertson was killed in an FBI raid at his home, after posting violent threats on social media including photos of guns that suggested assassination of certain political leaders. His family and neighbors say he never would have acted on those threats, he was active in his community, and he used social media to voice his grievances. How can we respond to veterans who act similar to him before things go too far?
Article for context: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/08/11/air-force-veteran-killed-after-threats-biden-believed-government-was-corrupt-overreaching.html
Article for context: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2023/08/11/air-force-veteran-killed-after-threats-biden-believed-government-was-corrupt-overreaching.html
Violence
Social Media
FBI
Posted 9 mo ago
Responses: 51
I see the comments on the thread are as predictable as the numerous posts on a daily basis "attacking the other side".
SFC (Join to see) asked a question of someone if they could name a 'leftist' that publicly threatened Trump when he was president or since (not calling you out for asking the question - using it as a segway into my main point). In a quick 2-3 minute search of DOJ's cases and the Secret Service NTAC's website, I gathered quite a number: Jeffrey Boyd, Chase Colasurdo, Richard Ware, Bryan Moles, Andrew O’Keefe, Jared Brown, Steven Ford -- and the list goes on and on. I can easily pull up an extensive list for Biden, Obama, Bush, or anyone else that falls under Secret Service protection.
Regardless of who is in office, the Secret Service says that on average, there are 6-8 “more than bluster/venting” threats against the sitting President each day.
The majority of these people that do this are not "driven by political comments" someone says. They are driven because they want to blame someone for their problems, hear someone saying a message that resonates with them, and are mentally unbalanced enough to try and take it to the next level. There is a lot that goes into pushing someone like that over the edge, and comments by a politician (even repeated ones) are not going to do it.
Are Republicans, Trump, or Conservatives at fault for the actions of Craig Robertson? No.
Are Democrats, Sanders, or Liberals at fault for the actions of James Hodgkinson*? No.
Who is responsible? For many that are reading this, look in a mirror. The level of partisan demonization of "the other side" is off the charts. I see DOZENS of posts each day that are not to inform others about something that occurred, discuss issues with a view towards a resolution or any other motive other than denigrate “their political enemy”.
While many will attack “the other side” because of a policy they don’t like, the more extreme of our community will show blatant political bigotry* in anything (and everything) “the other side” does. ALL _____________ are liars, cheats, and vile human beings. How anyone could vote for ___________ is a wonder because is just shows how stupid or immoral they are.
The National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE), one of DHS’ center of excellence, did a study on “Understanding Threats to Public Officials”*. From 2013 to 2022, 501 federal charges were filed against individuals for making threats to public officials (42% of these were against elected officials, although not necessarily the President).
There was a significant uptick about a year after the last administration took over (~60%) and another about a year after the current administration took over (a bit less than 30%). Was any specific individual on the left responsible for the former or someone on the right for the later? Again, no.
But they all contribute to the problem with the divisive rhetoric.
Many on the left or right will ignore a person like Mr. Robertson or Mr. Hodgkinson unless these something showing they are "from the other side", then they focus all their attention showing that they are proof that “they” are nothing but a bunch of extremists. However, if it’s someone from “their side” that is doing it, then the partisans will attempt to distance themselves with as much alacrity as they try to tie other individuals and groups together when the roles are reversed.
Specific to SGT (Join to see)’s question. I’m in line with what SFC (Join to see) said – see something, say something (if it appears to be a genuine threat of violence and not just someone ‘popping off’). It shouldn’t matter where on the political ideological continuum the individual making those threats falls, they should be reported.
If it was someone I had a relationship with, I would likely intervene if I didn’t think that they were an immediate threat to myself or others and see if I could help them with many, many of the mental health services that are available to veterans. If they continued with violent threats (regardless of seeking help or not), it would be time to alert the authorities.
I am in line with SFC Casey O'Mally with regards to the raid on his residence. There probably was a better way - take him down when he was outside the house, wait him out, something. There are some reports that he shot at those FBI agents that came in the house, so I'm not referring to their actions inside - shoot at law enforcement and they will shoot back. I'm referring to actions they could have taken outside of the residence, ESPECIALLY since reports are saying he had quite a number of weapons in there. I figure if you're going to arrest someone with a number of firearms you would at least do it when he was separated from them.
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* James Hodgkinson is the Sander’s supporter who committed a mass-shooting against the Republican team that was practicing for the annual Congressional Baseball game. https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2020-06/Hodgkinson.pdf
* National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE)
* Political Bigotry - https://www.rallypoint.com/status-updates/8176102
SFC (Join to see) asked a question of someone if they could name a 'leftist' that publicly threatened Trump when he was president or since (not calling you out for asking the question - using it as a segway into my main point). In a quick 2-3 minute search of DOJ's cases and the Secret Service NTAC's website, I gathered quite a number: Jeffrey Boyd, Chase Colasurdo, Richard Ware, Bryan Moles, Andrew O’Keefe, Jared Brown, Steven Ford -- and the list goes on and on. I can easily pull up an extensive list for Biden, Obama, Bush, or anyone else that falls under Secret Service protection.
Regardless of who is in office, the Secret Service says that on average, there are 6-8 “more than bluster/venting” threats against the sitting President each day.
The majority of these people that do this are not "driven by political comments" someone says. They are driven because they want to blame someone for their problems, hear someone saying a message that resonates with them, and are mentally unbalanced enough to try and take it to the next level. There is a lot that goes into pushing someone like that over the edge, and comments by a politician (even repeated ones) are not going to do it.
Are Republicans, Trump, or Conservatives at fault for the actions of Craig Robertson? No.
Are Democrats, Sanders, or Liberals at fault for the actions of James Hodgkinson*? No.
Who is responsible? For many that are reading this, look in a mirror. The level of partisan demonization of "the other side" is off the charts. I see DOZENS of posts each day that are not to inform others about something that occurred, discuss issues with a view towards a resolution or any other motive other than denigrate “their political enemy”.
While many will attack “the other side” because of a policy they don’t like, the more extreme of our community will show blatant political bigotry* in anything (and everything) “the other side” does. ALL _____________ are liars, cheats, and vile human beings. How anyone could vote for ___________ is a wonder because is just shows how stupid or immoral they are.
The National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE), one of DHS’ center of excellence, did a study on “Understanding Threats to Public Officials”*. From 2013 to 2022, 501 federal charges were filed against individuals for making threats to public officials (42% of these were against elected officials, although not necessarily the President).
There was a significant uptick about a year after the last administration took over (~60%) and another about a year after the current administration took over (a bit less than 30%). Was any specific individual on the left responsible for the former or someone on the right for the later? Again, no.
But they all contribute to the problem with the divisive rhetoric.
Many on the left or right will ignore a person like Mr. Robertson or Mr. Hodgkinson unless these something showing they are "from the other side", then they focus all their attention showing that they are proof that “they” are nothing but a bunch of extremists. However, if it’s someone from “their side” that is doing it, then the partisans will attempt to distance themselves with as much alacrity as they try to tie other individuals and groups together when the roles are reversed.
Specific to SGT (Join to see)’s question. I’m in line with what SFC (Join to see) said – see something, say something (if it appears to be a genuine threat of violence and not just someone ‘popping off’). It shouldn’t matter where on the political ideological continuum the individual making those threats falls, they should be reported.
If it was someone I had a relationship with, I would likely intervene if I didn’t think that they were an immediate threat to myself or others and see if I could help them with many, many of the mental health services that are available to veterans. If they continued with violent threats (regardless of seeking help or not), it would be time to alert the authorities.
I am in line with SFC Casey O'Mally with regards to the raid on his residence. There probably was a better way - take him down when he was outside the house, wait him out, something. There are some reports that he shot at those FBI agents that came in the house, so I'm not referring to their actions inside - shoot at law enforcement and they will shoot back. I'm referring to actions they could have taken outside of the residence, ESPECIALLY since reports are saying he had quite a number of weapons in there. I figure if you're going to arrest someone with a number of firearms you would at least do it when he was separated from them.
----------------------------------------
* James Hodgkinson is the Sander’s supporter who committed a mass-shooting against the Republican team that was practicing for the annual Congressional Baseball game. https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2020-06/Hodgkinson.pdf
* National Counterterrorism Innovation, Technology, and Education Center (NCITE)
* Political Bigotry - https://www.rallypoint.com/status-updates/8176102
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SSG Michel Smith
LT William Pellegrini - 20 years or age 70 is too long! How about 1)No more than 2 consecutive terms of 4 years, and if they aren't reelected they don't qualify for another term.
2)Make them work for minimum wages. There is NO good reason that ANY member of Congress becomes a millionaire while in office!
3)When they finish their term(s) they receive 6 months compensation and a letter of recommendation for doing their job IF they didn't get impeached while in office. Then audit them and their families and friends for kickbacks and/or bribes until they die. If they are caught liquidate ALL assets belonging to them and anyone involved and put them in jail/prison for a minimum of 10 years, and put the money back into the system.
I like your idea about Campaign Financing. I've seen people run just to get the money into their bank accounts, and then they drop from the race. Politicians should go back to running for office to actually work to make things better for the People. By imposing such restrictions on those who are running it hopefully keeps the crooks from wanting to get in. AND making them work for minimum wages might make them actually try to fix and balance the economy.
Most of the members of Congress have little or no college, and many have felons(some had charges while in office and have paid using our tax dollars to get the charges reduced or eliminated). They don't think they are liable to the same rules, standards, and regulations that they impose on the People. Take their money away and they are suddenly liable and will be held accountable. It isn't their money in the first place! They shouldn't be felons!
I failed to add that the only way to get the changes we all see needed is to use a Convention Of States to get it done. Voting at the ballot office isn't enough anymore. You might call me a conspiracy theorist but I believe that Joe Biden used ballot servers(his own)to rig the election. If I'm right then NO ballot box is safe! And you aren't going to get Congress as a majority to step down from the power they have over the People, not willingly! I'm NOT saying that the Democratic Party is completely responsible here. If you pay attention to what is going on in Congress you will realize that both parties work well together to get what they want from the People. Smoke and mirrors....listen for the statements as they come out. They actually tell on themselves, admit they do things that are wrong, but they only make the statements one time. Example: In a last minute change to an Omnibus Act in 2015 Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake introduced legislation to take a large portion of land from Arizona Native Americans. This land was then sold to a mining company for it's copper. That should be illegal, but Congress does things like this regularly. Bureau Of Land Management, Oregon, in a peaceful standoff a local rancher loses his life....
2)Make them work for minimum wages. There is NO good reason that ANY member of Congress becomes a millionaire while in office!
3)When they finish their term(s) they receive 6 months compensation and a letter of recommendation for doing their job IF they didn't get impeached while in office. Then audit them and their families and friends for kickbacks and/or bribes until they die. If they are caught liquidate ALL assets belonging to them and anyone involved and put them in jail/prison for a minimum of 10 years, and put the money back into the system.
I like your idea about Campaign Financing. I've seen people run just to get the money into their bank accounts, and then they drop from the race. Politicians should go back to running for office to actually work to make things better for the People. By imposing such restrictions on those who are running it hopefully keeps the crooks from wanting to get in. AND making them work for minimum wages might make them actually try to fix and balance the economy.
Most of the members of Congress have little or no college, and many have felons(some had charges while in office and have paid using our tax dollars to get the charges reduced or eliminated). They don't think they are liable to the same rules, standards, and regulations that they impose on the People. Take their money away and they are suddenly liable and will be held accountable. It isn't their money in the first place! They shouldn't be felons!
I failed to add that the only way to get the changes we all see needed is to use a Convention Of States to get it done. Voting at the ballot office isn't enough anymore. You might call me a conspiracy theorist but I believe that Joe Biden used ballot servers(his own)to rig the election. If I'm right then NO ballot box is safe! And you aren't going to get Congress as a majority to step down from the power they have over the People, not willingly! I'm NOT saying that the Democratic Party is completely responsible here. If you pay attention to what is going on in Congress you will realize that both parties work well together to get what they want from the People. Smoke and mirrors....listen for the statements as they come out. They actually tell on themselves, admit they do things that are wrong, but they only make the statements one time. Example: In a last minute change to an Omnibus Act in 2015 Senators John McCain and Jeff Flake introduced legislation to take a large portion of land from Arizona Native Americans. This land was then sold to a mining company for it's copper. That should be illegal, but Congress does things like this regularly. Bureau Of Land Management, Oregon, in a peaceful standoff a local rancher loses his life....
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LT William Pellegrini
I think paying our elected officials such as Pres/V.Pres, Senators, House members minimum wage is not a good idea. It certainly won't attract the creme of the crop to run for office, unless they are already multimillionaires. And those are the people that we don't want having any influence in government, much less be running it. And requiring that any one who leaves public office or if they are high ranking military men/women must wait 10 years before they can be employed by people they dealt with while on active duty. If they get caught working for someone they dealt with while in the military then BOTH the Corporation/Company and the retiree get fined. Few hundred thousand for the xmilitary guy/gal, and Few billion for the Company/Corporation should do the trick.
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SGT Linda J.
SSG Michel Smith - Definitely. After so long all that money thrown at them gets to hard to refuse.
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PO1 Billy Wilson
This new isolated public that the lock downs has caused is a public relations playground. And the addiction to tech and the game is on at levels our country has never known. Before this VR world really got going I knew the names of all my neighbors and family members, now only two. As a child I was taught believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see but that would kill social media and its profound effects on society. What happen to all the wonderful inventions that were of non lethal force..Use powerful strobe lights and a few dozen drones with tasers. Our county has already agreed to gasing each other with tear gas would not a sleeping gas be effective also. I went to a store just yesterday were I paid for the young person's items for it was clear he was searching for pennies. He ask me why and I ask him do you not remember that you help me by holding a door open just 4 minutes ago as a reflex. But when all people hear and see are images of fear we miss the real truths in life.
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Why does the military community need to respond? What can other veterans do to stop someone making threats? Especially if they are strangers? His family knew and they didn't care to do anything...saying "oh he'd never act on it." FAFO.
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SFC (Join to see)
LTC Lance Headrick - *Her. I'm a woman. It says female in my bio. I have no control on the generic avatar...but I'm a she.
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LTC Lance Headrick
SFC (Join to see) I did not think that was your nuclear option.
I did not want you to think it was some hidden expression....and it doesn't not hurt or cost me to acknowledge an error. Helps me believe I am polite too....or so I suppose. Have a great long weekend.
I did not want you to think it was some hidden expression....and it doesn't not hurt or cost me to acknowledge an error. Helps me believe I am polite too....or so I suppose. Have a great long weekend.
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Personal opinion: Ensure that we know all the facts. Craig Robertson allegedly taunted the FBI and pointed a gun at agents during the raid.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/trump-supporter-craig-robertson-was-shot-and-killed-after-pointing-a-357-magnum-at-feds-fbi/
https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/trump-supporter-craig-robertson-was-shot-and-killed-after-pointing-a-357-magnum-at-feds-fbi/
Trump supporter shot and killed during FBI raid was pointing .357 Magnum at feds
Craig Robertson, 75, pointed a .357 Magnum revolver at FBI agents who were executing a search warrant at his Utah home last week.
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PO2 Robert Carrillo
Socialism and communism never worked if so why are they coming here, and yes I'm bugged you forgot why some gave all you dishonor them and me!
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SFC Howard Holmes
PO2 Robert Carrillo - Not ONLY that, but the escapees from those countries do so with their lives and the lives of their families in grave danger. I don't know anybody who leaves the U.S., who's life is in danger BECAUSE they left. If they had criminal endeavors, mob related, etc., well, that could be a problem. The major issue with so many people who read these Communist/Marxist/Socialistic books is, yes, ON PAPER, they are close to being the most perfect forms of government there can be - but the problem is, Jesus Christ is the ONLY individual who could run it in the intended manor. Man is greedy, power hungry, controlling, and on and on, so therefore, it could NEVER work with a normal human being on earth, they would have to be perfect. I don't know why they read only books on the theoretics and workings of these tyrannical governments, but they never research what happens during and after the uprisings and takeovers. They need to read about the Stasi and their tactics and what they did to the East German Citizens.
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