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E-4 - CPL
E-4 - CPL
Posted on Feb 11, 2022
Can a corporal in a team leader position have me do corrective action (“smoke” me)? And was I wrong to tell him to eat a bag of dicks?
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We just got a new Corporal who recently reclassed to mortars. He’s highly motivated (hooah), and during a training event, we had a disagreement over how to perform large deflections. He told me to "drop," but the fire mission he was calling would’ve put us outside the safety fan during a live fire and could have potentially caused injuries to other elements participating in the exercise.
Now, I understand and respect his rank, but I’ve been a mortarman longer and currently serve as the Gun 2 gunner. The fact is—he was wrong. He just became an 11C, and when he wouldn’t listen to correction or reason, I told him (admittedly out of frustration) to eat a bag of d***s.
I’m curious to hear what others think—especially when it comes to situations where rank clashes with experience and safety is on the line.
Now, I understand and respect his rank, but I’ve been a mortarman longer and currently serve as the Gun 2 gunner. The fact is—he was wrong. He just became an 11C, and when he wouldn’t listen to correction or reason, I told him (admittedly out of frustration) to eat a bag of d***s.
I’m curious to hear what others think—especially when it comes to situations where rank clashes with experience and safety is on the line.
CPL
Corporal
11C: Indirect Fire Infantryman (Mortarman)
Edited 5 mo ago
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 358
You told an NCO to go eat a bag of dicks and you wanna know if you were wrong? I don't care if you've been doing the job longer and know more. You were more wrong than a hooker in church trying to pass a $3.00 bill in the collection plate. Personally, you should have been recommended for UCMJ. Disrespect to an NCO, Article 91. And yes he can drop your ass for corrective training. Remember, he's the NCO and you are not. Next time this happens, take it to your Squad Leader instead of planting your head in your ass.
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SFC Domingo M.
2LT Ronald Reimer - What did it for me was hard work and dedication, demonstrated leadership abilities which others didn't. I wasn't afraid to face a challenge.
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2LT Ronald Reimer
SFC Domingo M. - I’m sure that you were/did. Those who are successful, (like yourself), frequently are. I was trying to point out that those were different times. I wonder if anyone in the past 10 years has gone from E-1 or E-2 to E-5 in 1 year of service. Not in my original MOS, that’s for sure. The promotion points required for advancement were frozen at 998 for 5 years.
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SFC Domingo M.
2LT Ronald Reimer - I respect your take on this, but just for the sake of it, I just checked and the cut-off score is 450, and I couldn't find any time frame when it was frozen at 998. At least not for 11B MOS.
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SPC Wesley Parker
Everyone keeps talking about RSOs. There were no RSOs in Vietnam, we were on our own and if we screwed up, innocent people died. A battery 4th battalion 42nd field artillery 4th Infantry Division.
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You were both wrong, but you do what your rank can handle. He was wrong to try to flex because he was insecure about being wrong. You were wrong in your response. He's trying to establish himself as the recognized leader in a section that's new to him. You could have changed that entire encounter by pulling him aside and showing him the TM or whatever reference in a way that let's him save face in front of his Joe's.
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SSG Richard Bladl
1stSgt Michael Shafer - Sorry to disagree, your response shows you to be a hard nosed leader that needs some leadership training. You needed to pull both to the side and have a discussion about the problem and try to fix it, if that didn't work you could give less punishment than an Article 15. Sorry top, you don't have my support.
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Sgt Peter McLaughlin
99 percent of getting someone to do something for you is the approach you take. once you mess that up, it's a lot harder to get them to respect you after that. Respect works both ways! The biggest impact came from a First Sargeant who told our unit : " You don't have to like someone, but you will respect the rank". There is a chain of command for a reason. An old saying that goes a long way and will save you many difficulties: Think before you act or speak.
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PO2 Mike Vignapiano
Maybe I missed something but how can you say the NCO was wrong? All this arrogant SOB told us was a very vague one-sided opinion. New can be anywhere from a day to a year. All we know is what he told an NCO who IS IN CHARGE.
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SFC Michael Peterson
PO2 Mike Vignapiano - do you have any idea how serious it is to fire a mortar round outside the safety fan? I’m talking Article 34 hearings and possible criminal charges. He was wrong for telling the CPL to “eat a bag of dicks” but, he just might have saved everyone in his chain of command.
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Under Art 92, UCMJ, it is a violation if the SPC does not obey the order.
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SFC Michael Peterson
1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR) - OK 1SG, you have a CPL who was going to fire a mortar round outside the safety fan and a SPC who told that CPL to eat a bag of dicks. Would it be better for the SPC to just shut up and fire that round? That would have resulted in an investigation. Maybe even an Article 34 Hearing and, a few members of the of the COC being relieved. If that round would have landed outside the safety fan, and the SPC stopped that, the CPL would be the one in the hot seat. I would need to see all the data to make that decision.
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
SFC Michael Peterson One would think that during a "Live Fire" Training Excercise a Safety Officer was present and responsible. Rather than tell the Corporal to "Eat a Bag of Dicks", the Specialist should have brought the problem to the attention of the Safety Officer.
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SFC Michael Peterson
1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR) - Yes, there would be a RSO present. They mostly stick close to the FDC, where the firing data is computed, rather than on the gun line. A dispute on the gun line could be overlooked and, part of the Squad Leader’s job is to verify the correct data gets to the gun. That would be the CPL in this scenario. Otherwise, you would need an RSO at every position. One for the FDC and one for each of the guns.
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1SG(P) Dean Mcbride (MPER) (SPHR)
Before I dropped a round, knowingly into a tube set with incorrect (and unsafe) data, I would walk away.... Straight to the FDC or RSO! I would not quibble with the Squad Leader or engage in a pissing contest. That round goes down range out of the Safety Fan and everyone from FDC to the RSO to the Gun Crew will be on the carpet defending their actions!
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