Posted on Apr 12, 2016
Marine Corps: Men and women must meet same standards for combat jobs
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The Marine Corps will not lower physical standards to allow women to join combat jobs, such as infantry, Navy Secretary Ray Mabus vowed Tuesday.
"I will never lower standards," Mabus told Marines and sailors at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, California. "Let me repeat that: Standards will not be lowered for any group! Standards may be changed as circumstances in the world change, but they'll be changed for everybody."
After speaking about the Marine Corps' plan to integrate women into military occupational specialties that had been restricted to men, one Marine asked if female Marines would need to pass the same advanced courses as men to join the infantry.
"Same standards; doesn't matter," Mabus replied. "I mean, they're Marines."
The Marine Corps recently announced that male and female Marines must meet the same physical standards to be assigned to load-bearing units, such as infantry battalions, combat engineer companies and Raider companies, said Yvonne Carlock, a spokeswoman for Manpower and Reserve Affairs.
Previously, the Marine Corps had separate assignment policies for men and women, Carlock told Marine Corps Times on Tuesday. The administrative message does not apply to lateral moves into ground combat MOSs.
"The Secretary of Defense announced the opening of all occupations and units to all service members and published his guidance in a Dec. 3, 2015, memo to the secretaries of the military departments," Carlock said in an email. "MARADMIN 193/16 directs the application of gender neutral unit assignment criteria to all non-ground combat arms MOS Marines being screened for assignment to load bearing units."
Separately, MARDMIN 197/16 announced that a mobile training team will visit Marine Corps bases to explain the service's gender integration plan.
"This is not sensitivity training," said Marine Corps spokesman Capt. Philip Kulczewski. "The focus will be on the details of the implementation plan and how it affects all Marines' best practices."
Mabus has been determined to make sure that women can serve in combat jobs, going as far as to criticize the Marine Corps’ own gender-integration study, which found that teams of male and female Marines did not perform as well as male-only teams and that women in load-bearing units are more likely to get injured than men.
He told National Public Radio in September that the female Marines who took part in the Marine Corps’ gender-integration experiment were not strong enough to carry heavy loads and that “there should have been a higher bar to cross to get into the experiment.”
Senators later lambasted Mabus for implying that the women who participated in the Marine Corps study were not up to the task.
“Secretary Mabus, this would have been a lot easier if you had not called in the press immediately and debunked what many of us view was a legitimate study without even reading it,” Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said at the Feb. 2 hearing.
Over the next few weeks, Mabus will review a plan that he ordered the Marine Corps to submit that would make some job and MOS titles gender neutral, said Mabus' spokesman, Capt. Patrick McNally.
A Navy official told Marine Corps Times in January that the Marine Corps could keep iconic titles like "infantryman," "rifleman" or "midshipman."
"The idea is not to go in there and change the name when 'man' is incorporated as part of the term," the official said at the time. "... But when the word 'man' appears as a separate word ... they want that name to be changed."
"I will never lower standards," Mabus told Marines and sailors at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, California. "Let me repeat that: Standards will not be lowered for any group! Standards may be changed as circumstances in the world change, but they'll be changed for everybody."
After speaking about the Marine Corps' plan to integrate women into military occupational specialties that had been restricted to men, one Marine asked if female Marines would need to pass the same advanced courses as men to join the infantry.
"Same standards; doesn't matter," Mabus replied. "I mean, they're Marines."
The Marine Corps recently announced that male and female Marines must meet the same physical standards to be assigned to load-bearing units, such as infantry battalions, combat engineer companies and Raider companies, said Yvonne Carlock, a spokeswoman for Manpower and Reserve Affairs.
Previously, the Marine Corps had separate assignment policies for men and women, Carlock told Marine Corps Times on Tuesday. The administrative message does not apply to lateral moves into ground combat MOSs.
"The Secretary of Defense announced the opening of all occupations and units to all service members and published his guidance in a Dec. 3, 2015, memo to the secretaries of the military departments," Carlock said in an email. "MARADMIN 193/16 directs the application of gender neutral unit assignment criteria to all non-ground combat arms MOS Marines being screened for assignment to load bearing units."
Separately, MARDMIN 197/16 announced that a mobile training team will visit Marine Corps bases to explain the service's gender integration plan.
"This is not sensitivity training," said Marine Corps spokesman Capt. Philip Kulczewski. "The focus will be on the details of the implementation plan and how it affects all Marines' best practices."
Mabus has been determined to make sure that women can serve in combat jobs, going as far as to criticize the Marine Corps’ own gender-integration study, which found that teams of male and female Marines did not perform as well as male-only teams and that women in load-bearing units are more likely to get injured than men.
He told National Public Radio in September that the female Marines who took part in the Marine Corps’ gender-integration experiment were not strong enough to carry heavy loads and that “there should have been a higher bar to cross to get into the experiment.”
Senators later lambasted Mabus for implying that the women who participated in the Marine Corps study were not up to the task.
“Secretary Mabus, this would have been a lot easier if you had not called in the press immediately and debunked what many of us view was a legitimate study without even reading it,” Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said at the Feb. 2 hearing.
Over the next few weeks, Mabus will review a plan that he ordered the Marine Corps to submit that would make some job and MOS titles gender neutral, said Mabus' spokesman, Capt. Patrick McNally.
A Navy official told Marine Corps Times in January that the Marine Corps could keep iconic titles like "infantryman," "rifleman" or "midshipman."
"The idea is not to go in there and change the name when 'man' is incorporated as part of the term," the official said at the time. "... But when the word 'man' appears as a separate word ... they want that name to be changed."
Marine Corps: Men and women must meet same standards for combat jobs
Posted from navytimes.comPosted in these groups: 
Equality
Equality
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 7
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""I will never lower standards," Mabus told Marines and sailors at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, California. "Let me repeat that: Standards will not be lowered for any group! Standards may be changed as circumstances in the world change, but they'll be changed for everybody"...isn't this contradicting itself? I won't change standards, BUT if I do, it'll change for everybody.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Capt Richard I P. - I'll make you a deal. When you get CMC, I'll come back as SMMC.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Capt Richard I P. - About as likely as me getting a Commission by President Trump or President Sanders by the current odds.
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1SG Rick Caldwell
None what so ever! Keyword “I” will never lower standards. He may be saying he won’t be around forever but as long as he is there they will be the same for all three sex’s now. He’s may be saying that if the if his higher level directs him to have lower standards for females then he will lower the standards for males. He’s a dreamer of real equality, not this fake double and triple standard we call equality.
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We (Marines) don't define "standards" the same way. The MOS (whatever it is) has requirements which are in B&W. They don't say "X Pull ups or Y Sit ups." They say Pass PFT (which all Marines must do anyways), as well as other Objective Standards:
http://ec.militarytimes.com/static/pdfs/73173524-Standards-table-2015.pdf
Here's the actual Combat Arms (03xx/18xx/21xx/13xx) List.
Please note the PFT is NOT on that list. Because the PFT is IRRELEVANT to the "standards" which is a misnomer. The PFT is NOT a "Combat Capability Test." It is a HEALTH Test which is usually badly associated with Combat Capability.
CC MAJ (Join to see)
http://ec.militarytimes.com/static/pdfs/73173524-Standards-table-2015.pdf
Here's the actual Combat Arms (03xx/18xx/21xx/13xx) List.
Please note the PFT is NOT on that list. Because the PFT is IRRELEVANT to the "standards" which is a misnomer. The PFT is NOT a "Combat Capability Test." It is a HEALTH Test which is usually badly associated with Combat Capability.
CC MAJ (Join to see)
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL WHOA! Hasn't Marine LTC Kate Germano already established and published over her signature that female Marines are not held to the same standards in Marine Boot? Now that the females are Marines, they will be 'held to the same standards'? What sort of fair is that? Would you buy a used car from Secretary Mabus?
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Not exactly.
She said they weren't given the same EXPECTATIONS. Not the same STANDARDS. The standards are codified. The Expectations are not.
As an example (using made up numbers to highlight the point), rifle range pass rate: Males qualified at 85%, females qualified at 78%. The STANDARD is 75%. Both met STANDARD. The EXPECTATION is that BOTH will be the same (85%).
HER EXPECTATION was that females if pushed hard enough could perform equally to males on non-gender related tasks. On its face it appeared to be a reasonable "expectation." However, when we account for other factors and stressors like lack of physical activity leading up to bootcamp, lack of weapon familiarity, different cultural backgrounds, etc, the divergence in numbers isn't as odd as expected.
Her argument was reasonable. However, Marines (et al) tend to have aggressive personalities and how we approach arguments of this nature can be "brusk" which resulted in let us say her "not winning any friends" and her eventual relief of command (toxic leadership environment). She makes many a great points, however she also inserts A LOT of distractions into the argument in her follow-on articles (T&P).
She said they weren't given the same EXPECTATIONS. Not the same STANDARDS. The standards are codified. The Expectations are not.
As an example (using made up numbers to highlight the point), rifle range pass rate: Males qualified at 85%, females qualified at 78%. The STANDARD is 75%. Both met STANDARD. The EXPECTATION is that BOTH will be the same (85%).
HER EXPECTATION was that females if pushed hard enough could perform equally to males on non-gender related tasks. On its face it appeared to be a reasonable "expectation." However, when we account for other factors and stressors like lack of physical activity leading up to bootcamp, lack of weapon familiarity, different cultural backgrounds, etc, the divergence in numbers isn't as odd as expected.
Her argument was reasonable. However, Marines (et al) tend to have aggressive personalities and how we approach arguments of this nature can be "brusk" which resulted in let us say her "not winning any friends" and her eventual relief of command (toxic leadership environment). She makes many a great points, however she also inserts A LOT of distractions into the argument in her follow-on articles (T&P).
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