Posted on Feb 25, 2017
Dakota protesters regroup, plot resistance to other pipelines
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I thought they were reforming to come clean up after themselves after leaving the area looking like a landfill. Who cares about the environment? I understand the concerns, but eventually this is going to happen- would rather see the effort pushed for safer pipelines and more inspections.
Dakota protesters regroup, plot resistance to other pipelines
Posted from msn.com
Protest
Conspiracy Theories
Environment
Posted 8 y ago
Responses: 8
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Capt Seid Waddell
PO2 Brandon Boucher, the protesters disarmed a security guard, the person that disarmed him was arrested and the gun given back to the guard - and you seem outraged over that? That sounds like what SHOULD have happened.
As to the "siege warfare" - isn't that preferable to actual kinetic action to clear people from land they have illegally occupied? It sounds like the authorities used proper restraint in quelling the mob.
As to the "siege warfare" - isn't that preferable to actual kinetic action to clear people from land they have illegally occupied? It sounds like the authorities used proper restraint in quelling the mob.
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Capt Seid Waddell
Maj John Bell, from what I read the pipeline was already in the ground except for the part under the river. Is 90 feet below the river bottom the "sacred site" they were protecting?
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Maj John Bell
Capt Seid Waddell - One of the many objections was/is that when some of the reservation land was ceded back to the United States (pre-WWII), before any construction within 5 miles of the new reservation border, construction sites within the 5 mile limit must be surveyed for sacred sites. The tribe would then have the right for remediation/arbitration if any construction would disturb or pass within 50 feet of said sacred sites.
A survey was conducted by the US Army Corps of Engineers in conjunction with the trine in 1991 and again in 2005. The sacred sites in question were not identified in either of those surveys. The sacred sites now claimed consist of natural stone formations with no man made modifications or archeological importance, nor is there any evidence or testimony that any ceremonial or ritual activities were ever carried out at or near the stone formations in question.
A survey was conducted by the US Army Corps of Engineers in conjunction with the trine in 1991 and again in 2005. The sacred sites in question were not identified in either of those surveys. The sacred sites now claimed consist of natural stone formations with no man made modifications or archeological importance, nor is there any evidence or testimony that any ceremonial or ritual activities were ever carried out at or near the stone formations in question.
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I would agree with about safer pipelines and more inspections, but that will cut into the bottemline and we can't have that, in the United States of Oil. The place wasn't left like a landfill, we had heavy equipment onsite to move snow and the millions of donations that couldn't get used. Did you know someone donated a 5000 unit CD collection? There were some items that people brought that were trash. We paid $7000 for 6 months to Cannonball Sanitation to come and empty dumpsters, they stopped after 1 month. There were tons of building materials, sacred tipis, and structures that housed on average 7000 people. We had solar and wind power, we have composting toilets, and we had waste free eating kitchens (bring your own mess kit). The pictures you are seeing is because of the mud from melting snow, not the river melting. The river is still 10 feet thick. These lands are contested treaty lands guaranteed in the 1851 and 1868 Ft Laramie treaties, which according to the US Constitution are the highest law of the land. Also the indigenous peoples as a group provide more persons to the US Military than any other ethic group per capita. This was about more then just a pipeline, but this is a good start.
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Maj Marty Hogan
Well stated- I see your side of the argument as well. Nothing shows you what is coming more than a historical review of what has happened to date. The pics were from the news here and reported every morning. Katrina saw many donated items that were pure trash as well- people meant well but gave away stuff they didn't want. May find someone to push that message out to change the point of view- because most in our area unless a farmer are looking for a job the pipeline can bring in.
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PO2 Brandon Boucher
Maj Marty Hogan - Renewable and sustainable energy development produced 300,000 new jobs last year and is growing at a rate of 25% per year! We have more then enough jobs to give out, we just need the government to stop back big energy and blocking renewable energy.
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If the broader focus is an end to all new pipeline construction and eventually the elimination of all fossil fuel related pipelines; what is the alternative? Maritime shipping, Rail car transportation and trucking have nothing near the necessary capacity or even potential capacity. Not to mention that per BTU per mile they are far more hazardous and expensive than pipeline. Thus it becomes a regressive "tax" upon the poor who have no choice but to pay for more expensive energy and spend less on lifestyle and education of their children. The total elimination of fossil fuel energy is not possible for decades if not a century or two.
Without the use of fossil fuels, it is estimated that the global food system is incapable of producing, distributing, and storing food for a population above 2-2.5 Billion. Who volunteers to starve to death? Or be euthanized?
Without the use of fossil fuels, it is estimated that the global food system is incapable of producing, distributing, and storing food for a population above 2-2.5 Billion. Who volunteers to starve to death? Or be euthanized?
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PO2 Brandon Boucher
How about we get off of fossil fuels? That is VERY possible we just have to decide to.
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Maj John Bell
PO2 Brandon Boucher - So do you volunteer to be one of the 4-4.5 billion of the population that must die because a fossil fuel free agri-business cannot feed them? Have you given up the use of fossil fuels in your life? When you go out to dinner or watch TV or power up you computer, are you fossil fuel free? Set the example.
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PO2 Brandon Boucher
Maj John Bell - Sure let's jump right to the most extreme aspect of this conversation. It won't happen this way. And i hunt, fish and grow my own food. I have no TV and run on solar power. I do use my computer and cell phone, and i travel alot. But my carbon footprint is smaller then most, so i am the example you were just talking about.
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Maj John Bell
I think doing away with pipelines and fossil fuels is very extreme. I also find that what the anti-fossil fuel crowd demands, is more than they actually live by themselves. America's economic greatness has been built on cheap energy, and the average "tree-hugger has no concept of the pre-industrial, agricultural lifestyle back into which they want to thrust the world.
It is great that you hunt and fish and grow your own food. What percentage of your household food consumption is self-produced? I live in a rural area, raise my own perishable food and do not eat much in the way of prepared/packaged food. It is extremely time consuming ad you are probably talking about removing one out of two workers from two-income households with children.
How are the 80% of the US population that lives in the 483 urban centers going to hunt, fish, dairy and meat farm and grow their produce? How will they preserve and store it? They won't have root cellars and probably don't have the near storage for a years worth of self preserved canned foods.
I live in an area where a lot of young idealistic, simple life, homesteaders get their asses handed to them by nature every year. Far less than 10% make it through two winters. And food production and heating are easy here.
It is great that you hunt and fish and grow your own food. What percentage of your household food consumption is self-produced? I live in a rural area, raise my own perishable food and do not eat much in the way of prepared/packaged food. It is extremely time consuming ad you are probably talking about removing one out of two workers from two-income households with children.
How are the 80% of the US population that lives in the 483 urban centers going to hunt, fish, dairy and meat farm and grow their produce? How will they preserve and store it? They won't have root cellars and probably don't have the near storage for a years worth of self preserved canned foods.
I live in an area where a lot of young idealistic, simple life, homesteaders get their asses handed to them by nature every year. Far less than 10% make it through two winters. And food production and heating are easy here.
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