Posted on Jan 3, 2016
Glen Carbon to consider whether to recognize Merchant Marine veterans at village war memorial
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RP Members what do you think about recognizing the Merchant Marine Veterans? SN Greg Wright I believe you posted some discussions on this subject and what the Merchant Marines did for this country during WWII
In terms of per capita losses, the Merchant Marine suffered worse than the armed services. About 243,000 men served in the Merchant Marine, which lost 9,500 to submarine attacks, ship wrecks and other causes, for a death rate of 3.9 percent or 1 in 26, according to the website http://www.usmm.org.
Orville Sova, 88, spent the last years of his life waiting for the U.S. Congress to recognize fully the role the U.S. Merchant Marine played in the Allies’ victory in World War II.
Sova, of Collinsville, had served with the civilian-run cargo arm of the American war effort. He died Nov. 6.
Now, Sova’s daughter has picked up where her father has left off. Sheila Sova, of Glen Carbon, is waging a one-woman campaign to get metro-east city and village governments to put up on their war monuments plaques honoring the contributions of America’s merchant seamen, whose efforts, according to historians, were essential to winning the war.
In terms of per capita losses, the Merchant Marine suffered worse than the armed services. About 243,000 men served in the Merchant Marine, which lost 9,500 to submarine attacks, ship wrecks and other causes, for a death rate of 3.9 percent or 1 in 26, according to the website http://www.usmm.org.
Orville Sova, 88, spent the last years of his life waiting for the U.S. Congress to recognize fully the role the U.S. Merchant Marine played in the Allies’ victory in World War II.
Sova, of Collinsville, had served with the civilian-run cargo arm of the American war effort. He died Nov. 6.
Now, Sova’s daughter has picked up where her father has left off. Sheila Sova, of Glen Carbon, is waging a one-woman campaign to get metro-east city and village governments to put up on their war monuments plaques honoring the contributions of America’s merchant seamen, whose efforts, according to historians, were essential to winning the war.
Glen Carbon to consider whether to recognize Merchant Marine veterans at village war memorial
Posted from bnd.com
WWII World War Two
Congress
Honor
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 4
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This gets tricky, because we have different types of "Merchant Marines."
We have our Merchant Marine Officers (those who attended the Academy) who are Commissioned Officers and have an obligation to serve in a "Maritime Capacity." They are Veterans.
We have Merchant Marines who are in Federal Service, such as the Military Sealift Command (MSC) who have Federal Benefits.
We have "other" Merchant Marines who are in "Private" Service (who SN Greg Wright can explain much better).
When you have Americans serving in a "Federal" Capacity, even if it is for a "Private" organization, we should recognize them accordingly. These are people who gave their all for the Nation. Let's not piddle over what "bucket" we need to put them into.
We have our Merchant Marine Officers (those who attended the Academy) who are Commissioned Officers and have an obligation to serve in a "Maritime Capacity." They are Veterans.
We have Merchant Marines who are in Federal Service, such as the Military Sealift Command (MSC) who have Federal Benefits.
We have "other" Merchant Marines who are in "Private" Service (who SN Greg Wright can explain much better).
When you have Americans serving in a "Federal" Capacity, even if it is for a "Private" organization, we should recognize them accordingly. These are people who gave their all for the Nation. Let's not piddle over what "bucket" we need to put them into.
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SN Greg Wright
Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS COL Mikel J. Burroughs King's Point grads can go AD or into the US-flagged fleet, public or private, to meet their obligation. If they don't go AD, they have to commission into the Reserves, where they may or may not ever set foot on a Naval vessel.
As for the difference between MSC Sailors (the 'Federal' portion of your statement), and Sailors who work for private companies (like me), there are none in terms of qualifications, certifications, and training...or their likelihood to service the war effort. The only difference is the job you applied for. An AB working for Exxon or American President Lines is the same as an MSC AB...he just, for whatever reason, didn't decide to go the MSC route (pay and sea time has a LOT to do with this. MSC sailors don't make as much, and a typical rotation for them is 10 months. Ours is 90 days. These are my personal reasons for not going that route. This doesn't make one better than the other. We all choose to serve how we do.)
In terms of serving the country in, say, war efforts, any given MM is as likely to do so as any other: the vast majority of war-fighting materiel is delivered by US MM's, both MSC -and 'private' companies who are legally obligated to do so (I'll come to this). MSC focuses mainly on supporting the Navy, with a smaller portion of their lift capacity going to delivering materiel to ground forces. All of the rest of it is done by 'private' companies. (I'll explain in a moment why that's in quotes) I can't count the barrels of fuel or containers I've crewed to the ME.
One big factor in this is the Jones Act, which protects American carriers from foreign companies picking up cargo in an American port and delivering it to another American port. This applies to all modes: ship, trucks, airplanes, trains. In return, carriers sign an agreement with the government that some percentage of their lift capacity is required to be reserved for government use in war time...like for the past 15 years. This is why 'private' is kind of a misnomer. Those ships are legally obligated to service our war-fighters. Call it ship conscription, if you will. Point is, if you're working on ships, you have a high likelihood of going into war zones. Luckily for us in this conflict, there aren't a lot of subs looking to chalk up tonnage. But if there were, we'd be dying with the rest of you.
Finally, and to me the most direct answer to the Colonel's query, every single US Merchant Marine, when he signs for his/her Z card, agrees to be available, if called upon, during war time. Literally, we can be conscripted, required to man vessels at the Government's whim. I haven't seen that happen (I don't think it has, for this conflict), but we've all signed the same blank check that the Armed Services do. This time around, not many of ours need be cashed, but that hasn't always been the case.
Do US Merchant Marines deserve recognition? You bet your ass they do. Most especially if you're referencing those from WW2.
As for the difference between MSC Sailors (the 'Federal' portion of your statement), and Sailors who work for private companies (like me), there are none in terms of qualifications, certifications, and training...or their likelihood to service the war effort. The only difference is the job you applied for. An AB working for Exxon or American President Lines is the same as an MSC AB...he just, for whatever reason, didn't decide to go the MSC route (pay and sea time has a LOT to do with this. MSC sailors don't make as much, and a typical rotation for them is 10 months. Ours is 90 days. These are my personal reasons for not going that route. This doesn't make one better than the other. We all choose to serve how we do.)
In terms of serving the country in, say, war efforts, any given MM is as likely to do so as any other: the vast majority of war-fighting materiel is delivered by US MM's, both MSC -and 'private' companies who are legally obligated to do so (I'll come to this). MSC focuses mainly on supporting the Navy, with a smaller portion of their lift capacity going to delivering materiel to ground forces. All of the rest of it is done by 'private' companies. (I'll explain in a moment why that's in quotes) I can't count the barrels of fuel or containers I've crewed to the ME.
One big factor in this is the Jones Act, which protects American carriers from foreign companies picking up cargo in an American port and delivering it to another American port. This applies to all modes: ship, trucks, airplanes, trains. In return, carriers sign an agreement with the government that some percentage of their lift capacity is required to be reserved for government use in war time...like for the past 15 years. This is why 'private' is kind of a misnomer. Those ships are legally obligated to service our war-fighters. Call it ship conscription, if you will. Point is, if you're working on ships, you have a high likelihood of going into war zones. Luckily for us in this conflict, there aren't a lot of subs looking to chalk up tonnage. But if there were, we'd be dying with the rest of you.
Finally, and to me the most direct answer to the Colonel's query, every single US Merchant Marine, when he signs for his/her Z card, agrees to be available, if called upon, during war time. Literally, we can be conscripted, required to man vessels at the Government's whim. I haven't seen that happen (I don't think it has, for this conflict), but we've all signed the same blank check that the Armed Services do. This time around, not many of ours need be cashed, but that hasn't always been the case.
Do US Merchant Marines deserve recognition? You bet your ass they do. Most especially if you're referencing those from WW2.
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Why haven't we done this already? I know the answer, but that's the question that should be asked.
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SN Greg Wright
SSG Warren Swan Staff, everyone in their own group tends to think they're better than any other group. This is natural human behavior. Some of that has been conditioned out, where an outside observer simply can NOT ignore the sacrifices of, say, Soldiers, or Marines, who died fighting our wars. The truth is, MM's don't get the exposure. That's fine. I don't climb a gangway in an effort to get Warren to say, 'holy fuck , Greg is a good guy'. I do it to make a paycheck. Thing is, there's a saying: "If you bought it, a truck brought it". Only that's incomplete. If you bought it, 99.9% chances is, a SAILOR brought it to the truck.
MM's today don't die in the droves they did in WW2, and frankly, I'm ok with the lack of recognition for that...because it would, likely, take my death to get the population today, (like those of the SS El Faro) to even notice that I existed.
But I take issue if 'you' (not YOU of course, Warren. Collective You.) refuse to recognize the service of the thousands of my brethren who died, not only supporting our own country, but even OTHER allies, like the UK.
3.9% of us died in WW2 supporting the US and our Allies. The next highest losses were the Marines at something like 3.4%. Fuck you (again, not YOU you. Collective you) if you don't think that's worthy of recognition.
MM's today don't die in the droves they did in WW2, and frankly, I'm ok with the lack of recognition for that...because it would, likely, take my death to get the population today, (like those of the SS El Faro) to even notice that I existed.
But I take issue if 'you' (not YOU of course, Warren. Collective You.) refuse to recognize the service of the thousands of my brethren who died, not only supporting our own country, but even OTHER allies, like the UK.
3.9% of us died in WW2 supporting the US and our Allies. The next highest losses were the Marines at something like 3.4%. Fuck you (again, not YOU you. Collective you) if you don't think that's worthy of recognition.
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COL Mikel J. Burroughs
If they served in WWII then they very well SHOULD be recognized. Same as the Filipino guerrillas who fought for the US.
If they served in WWII then they very well SHOULD be recognized. Same as the Filipino guerrillas who fought for the US.
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