Posted on Apr 12, 2016
Marine Corps: Men and women must meet same standards for combat jobs
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""I will never lower standards," Mabus told Marines and sailors at Marine Corps Base Camp Pendleton, California. "Let me repeat that: Standards will not be lowered for any group! Standards may be changed as circumstances in the world change, but they'll be changed for everybody"...isn't this contradicting itself? I won't change standards, BUT if I do, it'll change for everybody.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Capt Richard I P. - I'll make you a deal. When you get CMC, I'll come back as SMMC.
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Capt Richard I P. - About as likely as me getting a Commission by President Trump or President Sanders by the current odds.
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1SG Rick Caldwell
None what so ever! Keyword “I” will never lower standards. He may be saying he won’t be around forever but as long as he is there they will be the same for all three sex’s now. He’s may be saying that if the if his higher level directs him to have lower standards for females then he will lower the standards for males. He’s a dreamer of real equality, not this fake double and triple standard we call equality.
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We (Marines) don't define "standards" the same way. The MOS (whatever it is) has requirements which are in B&W. They don't say "X Pull ups or Y Sit ups." They say Pass PFT (which all Marines must do anyways), as well as other Objective Standards:
http://ec.militarytimes.com/static/pdfs/73173524-Standards-table-2015.pdf
Here's the actual Combat Arms (03xx/18xx/21xx/13xx) List.
Please note the PFT is NOT on that list. Because the PFT is IRRELEVANT to the "standards" which is a misnomer. The PFT is NOT a "Combat Capability Test." It is a HEALTH Test which is usually badly associated with Combat Capability.
CC MAJ (Join to see)
http://ec.militarytimes.com/static/pdfs/73173524-Standards-table-2015.pdf
Here's the actual Combat Arms (03xx/18xx/21xx/13xx) List.
Please note the PFT is NOT on that list. Because the PFT is IRRELEVANT to the "standards" which is a misnomer. The PFT is NOT a "Combat Capability Test." It is a HEALTH Test which is usually badly associated with Combat Capability.
CC MAJ (Join to see)
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SFC Joe S. Davis Jr., MSM, DSL WHOA! Hasn't Marine LTC Kate Germano already established and published over her signature that female Marines are not held to the same standards in Marine Boot? Now that the females are Marines, they will be 'held to the same standards'? What sort of fair is that? Would you buy a used car from Secretary Mabus?
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Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS
Not exactly.
She said they weren't given the same EXPECTATIONS. Not the same STANDARDS. The standards are codified. The Expectations are not.
As an example (using made up numbers to highlight the point), rifle range pass rate: Males qualified at 85%, females qualified at 78%. The STANDARD is 75%. Both met STANDARD. The EXPECTATION is that BOTH will be the same (85%).
HER EXPECTATION was that females if pushed hard enough could perform equally to males on non-gender related tasks. On its face it appeared to be a reasonable "expectation." However, when we account for other factors and stressors like lack of physical activity leading up to bootcamp, lack of weapon familiarity, different cultural backgrounds, etc, the divergence in numbers isn't as odd as expected.
Her argument was reasonable. However, Marines (et al) tend to have aggressive personalities and how we approach arguments of this nature can be "brusk" which resulted in let us say her "not winning any friends" and her eventual relief of command (toxic leadership environment). She makes many a great points, however she also inserts A LOT of distractions into the argument in her follow-on articles (T&P).
She said they weren't given the same EXPECTATIONS. Not the same STANDARDS. The standards are codified. The Expectations are not.
As an example (using made up numbers to highlight the point), rifle range pass rate: Males qualified at 85%, females qualified at 78%. The STANDARD is 75%. Both met STANDARD. The EXPECTATION is that BOTH will be the same (85%).
HER EXPECTATION was that females if pushed hard enough could perform equally to males on non-gender related tasks. On its face it appeared to be a reasonable "expectation." However, when we account for other factors and stressors like lack of physical activity leading up to bootcamp, lack of weapon familiarity, different cultural backgrounds, etc, the divergence in numbers isn't as odd as expected.
Her argument was reasonable. However, Marines (et al) tend to have aggressive personalities and how we approach arguments of this nature can be "brusk" which resulted in let us say her "not winning any friends" and her eventual relief of command (toxic leadership environment). She makes many a great points, however she also inserts A LOT of distractions into the argument in her follow-on articles (T&P).
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